Video Tour of Apple CarPlay in the 2019 Lexus ES Sedan

Ian Schmidt

There's only one automaker currently offering wireless CarPlay in OEM head units, so this isn't a specific Lexus failing.

Plugging in isn’t much of an issue. CarPlay and Android Auto are for heavy smartphone users. Most people like that are already in the habit of plugging in every time we get in the car just to charge.

maiaramdan

Honestly I feel Apple Car-play or Android Auto is just an answer to question nobody asked before

I never used and I won't
The regular automakers systems are enough for me

Well - the question has mostly been asked by car-owners who have no navigation or "bad" infotainment systems.

However - I do agree. I don't really see the point of Apple/Android Car Play unless its for a car with no navigation or a car with a bad infotainment system. Majority of luxury vehicles or high-end vehicles have good infotainment systems - so what's the point of Apple/Android car play?
IE: Why use Apple Car Play (with Google Maps now) over iDrive? The BMW iDrive system is polished, refined, and amazing. The maps is also pretty good as well. Why use Apple Car Play over iDrive? Or MMI/Virtual Cockpit? etc...
Like - what's the point of Apple Car Play on a Lexus LS500 which cost over 100K. Why spend over 100K on a vehicle but use a phone mirroring software as your UI for your car?

I come from Porsche/Audi forums and majority of the people over there never use it. They think its garbage. (However - there are a few owners who use it because they don't have Navigation or Virtual Cockpit).

Can anyone give me some reasons why someone would use Apple/Android car play on a high end car with Navigation and a good infotainment system?

I personally find the automaker systems all to be varying degrees of hot garbage. I think they should all just save the money and be dumb screens for my smartphone, where people who actually understand user interaction work.

I'll list some actual advantages of CarPlay/Android Auto though:
- Maps are always up to date without paying a dealer for quarterly updates (I *think* the LS500 can self-update for free over-the-air finally, but I'm not sure)
- Waze gives you live accident and speed trap info and can route around accidents
- You can control playback of podcasts / MP3s / streaming music services without fumbling around with your phone at the next stoplight
- High-end phones have much, much faster processors than any OEM infotainment system can afford (or, in the case of Apple devices, obtain at all)

Ian Schmidt

I personally find the automaker systems all to be varying degrees of hot garbage. I think they should all just save the money and be dumb screens for my smartphone, where people who actually understand user interaction work.

I'll list some actual advantages of CarPlay/Android Auto though:
- Maps are always up to date without paying a dealer for quarterly updates (I *think* the LS500 can self-update for free over-the-air finally, but I'm not sure)
- Waze gives you live accident and speed trap info and can route around accidents
- You can control playback of podcasts / MP3s / streaming music services without fumbling around with your phone at the next stoplight
- High-end phones have much, much faster processors than any OEM infotainment system can afford (or, in the case of Apple devices, obtain at all)

not everyone has or wants to use Android Auto or CarPlay... this is why despite all the press, it has not been a serious deciding factor on car purchases.

So Lexus will always have to have its own infotainment system.

Everyone has a phone. Not everyone wants to pay what OEMs charge for navigation systems, especially on the lower end. I think once wireless CarPlay/Android Auto plus wireless charging is a thing that people will find that setup a lot more compelling than ordering the OEM system.

Ian Schmidt

Everyone has a phone. Not everyone wants to pay what OEMs charge for navigation systems, especially on the lower end. I think once wireless CarPlay/Android Auto plus wireless charging is a thing that people will find that setup a lot more compelling than ordering the OEM system.

nevertheless, you will always have your manufacturers infotainment system... i dont think even in 10 years from now that more than 50% will use carplay/android auto even if most basic version of their multimedia will have it.

Ian Schmidt

I personally find the automaker systems all to be varying degrees of hot garbage. I think they should all just save the money and be dumb screens for my smartphone, where people who actually understand user interaction work.

I'll list some actual advantages of CarPlay/Android Auto though:
- Maps are always up to date without paying a dealer for quarterly updates (I *think* the LS500 can self-update for free over-the-air finally, but I'm not sure)
- Waze gives you live accident and speed trap info and can route around accidents
- You can control playback of podcasts / MP3s / streaming music services without fumbling around with your phone at the next stoplight
- High-end phones have much, much faster processors than any OEM infotainment system can afford (or, in the case of Apple devices, obtain at all)

Thanks for your opinions! I'm just generally curious and want to get a conversation going about this. :)
I don't think all manufacturers have horrible infotainment systems - some do - but majority of luxury car companies offer really good systems that they poured quite a lot of money into for development of it.

-Agreed. Free updates to maps is a definite plus. But - someone that prefers free maps updates - they are actively trying to save money, in my opinion. I would believe these type of people would be already in Navigation-less cars and need Car Play features.
-Waze. I have heard of this example or reason quite often. But I do believe its tied to your location (area you live) since its crowdsource information. In some areas, Waze can be quite useless. I do also believe the graphics are quite bad compared to any Standard Navigation on a luxury car. The "cartoonish characters" don't help the attractive-ness either. I would personally say its not worth using the Waze maps while overriding your standard UI just to have a chance at avoiding tickets.
-Playbacks as in music control? If so, I believe majority of luxury cars have in-car systems that control music pretty well. Especially with Alexa and Siri inside the car.
-True. High-end phones have faster processors. How does the phone's speed affect the head unit on the car? The head unit is just mirroring the phone and using its own hardware and not the phone's hardware, right?

spwolf

not everyone has or wants to use Android Auto or CarPlay... this is why despite all the press, it has not been a serious deciding factor on car purchases.

I browse through forums a lot on my spare time at work and there quite a bit of people on forums that claim Android/Apple Car Play is a must. I don't post much on CL (ClubLexus) but it feels like quite a bit of people there want Lexus to have Apple/Android Car Play because its a must to them. But I personally feel its not that much of a deciding factor at all since majority of luxury car's infotainment system does everything and more what the Apple/Android Car Play will do.

For me, texting with CarPlay is so worth it as with Siri in general. There's no extra button pushes or changes, if a text comes in, it can dictate it to you and you can respond instantly by voice. It's that simple and convenient. No fuss or hassles; it's intuitive, simple and instant and requires no hands or eyes.

Lexus' voice command system was absolute crap. Audi isn't that much better from what I've tried so far. If you use Siri a lot, CarPlay will come naturally and it's an absolute boon and outright necessity if you get a lot of texts and calls.

Rhambler

For me, texting with CarPlay is so worth it as with Siri in general. There's no extra button pushes or changes, if a text comes in, it can dictate it to you and you can respond instantly by voice. It's that simple and convenient. No fuss or hassles; it's intuitive, simple and instant and requires no hands or eyes.

Lexus' voice command system was absolute crap. Audi isn't that much better from what I've tried so far. If you use Siri a lot, CarPlay will come naturally and it's an absolute boon and outright necessity if you get a lot of texts and calls.

While I agree that being able have a text read to you and being about to send a text through voice assistance is a good feature, I don't see how Car Play really plays a factor with a luxury car that has Siri eyes free. Example: Lexus has Siri-Eyes-Free, which reads your incoming text and sends a text for your through speech. By doing this - you don't have to connect your phone or enable Car Play UI.

Right, CarPlay is a superset of Siri Eyes Free. Either way it's good to have.

The other thing to consider is the regular updates provided by smartphone makers. Smartphone users (especially Apple) have become accustomed to yearly, significant updates of the OS. Automakers, on the other hand, have a “planned obsolescence” business model. Unless automakers want to start putting much stronger processors in their infotainment systems, I doubt a yearly update scheme would even be possible for them. Except, maybe, for the top of their ranges, like the LS.
Imagine what capabilities iOS or Android will have eight years from now and realize a car’s OS is not likely to change noticeably during that time.

Ch’Pok

The other thing to consider is the regular updates provided by smartphone makers. Smartphone users (especially Apple) have become accustomed to yearly, significant updates of the OS. Automakers, on the other hand, have a “planned obsolescence” business model. Unless automakers want to start putting much stronger processors in their infotainment systems, I doubt a yearly update scheme would even be possible for them. Except, maybe, for the top of their ranges, like the LS.
Imagine what capabilities iOS or Android will have eight years from now and realize a car’s OS is not likely to change noticeably during that time.

it is also impossible to use your 8 year phone with new features, so thats a moot point. Heck, even 3 year old is a problem.

If manufacturers would follow Apple model, then you would throw away your car after 3-4 years because it would take 15 seconds to turn on vehicle.

Ch’Pok

The other thing to consider is the regular updates provided by smartphone makers. Smartphone users (especially Apple) have become accustomed to yearly, significant updates of the OS. Automakers, on the other hand, have a “planned obsolescence” business model. Unless automakers want to start putting much stronger processors in their infotainment systems, I doubt a yearly update scheme would even be possible for them. Except, maybe, for the top of their ranges, like the LS.
Imagine what capabilities iOS or Android will have eight years from now and realize a car’s OS is not likely to change noticeably during that time.

Consumer electronics manufacturers are the biggest practitioners of planned obsolescence. Most of their products are designed with a guaranteed life of 18 months, after that it all comes down to luck of the user. I don't see how cars are made with planned obsolescence in mind given that even the least reliable ones remain usable after ten years.

There was a time when it was a common practice for smartphone manufacturers to use Li-ion batteries that are rated to only 300 charging cycles (600 with built-in protection) so the batteries will stop working after 18 months. It is only after the Apple battery scandal that they request suppliers to make batteries with up to 700 (or 1100 with protection) charging cycles. Still smartphones have lots of parts that are designed to fail way before the batteries hit the 700 cycle mark.

But you are right automakers could make OTA updates of the infotainment system; it's really the way of the future. However it will depend on the quality they are willing to invest in it. Tesla is known for buggy OTA updates (part of reason is their strategy of using customers as Beta testers). Lower end manufacturers are way worse than Tesla. I used to drive some chinese car-sharing EVs (in China, slapping a cheap tablet on the dashboard is the standard way of making the infotainment, so surprisingly even the cheapest shitboxes can do OTA updates); these things have at least three things that don't work: sometimes it's the AC; sometimes it's the regenerative braking control; sometimes it's the rear view camera; you discover something new everytime.

spwolf

it is also impossible to use your 8 year phone with new features, so thats a moot point. Heck, even 3 year old is a problem.

If manufacturers would follow Apple model, then you would throw away your car after 3-4 years because it would take 15 seconds to turn on vehicle.

The electronics system that drives the vehicle itself is isolated from the infotainment, so OTA updates will not cause a car to be undrivable or unsafe. They will have tons of quirks that annoy the heck of the owner, if they don't make sure these updates work. Knowing TMC's standards, they will probably not do QA tests with their customers. The problem with Tesla is that these Beta version softwares not only control the infotainment, but also the drivetrain and safety systems, which is something a traditional automaker will never do.

Apple Car-Play is run entirely from the phone. As long as the car system has the interface ready, apple carplay will work without any hitches. Lexus only needs to worry about their systems and updating the firmware to support the car-play interface.

I don't know that I'd equate automobile obsolescence with what happens with consumer electronics. With automobiles, it's more of an issue of time to plan, engineer, manufacture and then put up for sale. Adding to that, they pretty much have to be a bit more on the conservative side given what damage a safety issue or reliability issue can do to a brand. With consumer electronics, some of it was certainly planned obsolescence, but some of it also had to do for the longest time with how quickly mobile hardware was advancing. You can see now that even phones as far back as the iPhone 5S are still receiving updates, where you were lucky for a while if your phone lasted >18 months. Android is a little different... not necessarily in a good way.

Digression aside, I look forward to Apple CarPlay being available for those trips that are longer than just a few minutes where I want to use Spotify or Google Maps from my phone (and maybe other apps eventually?). By necessity and also for cost reasons, the processors for automobile infotainment systems will never be quite as fast as what you can get in a state of the art mobile device, bearing in mind that a car is subject to much harsher conditions potentially than a phone ever will/should be. Giving consumers a choice is a good thing, especially since it sounds like once it's implemented, the car manufacturers don't have to do that much to support it (CarPlay or Android Auto).

As for why wireless CarPlay isn't that common: have you used wireless charging on your phone recently? Have you seen how hot your phone can get when just doing something intensive (think gaming, or playing music/running maps/some other stuff at the same time). I find it weird that Apple even allows it at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if you very easily run into thermal shutdown conditions on the phone if you try to do too much on it while wirelessly charging. Either that or it would just start throttling everything back like crazy. Also, wireless CarPlay also probably requires new bluetooth chips in the car, support in the infotainment system's firmware, *and* the requisite wireless charging pad (which is usually optional in most cars that even have it).

spwolf

If manufacturers would follow Apple model, then you would throw away your car after 3-4 years because it would take 15 seconds to turn on vehicle.

You missed Monday's big Apple shindig. iOS 12 will support the same phones as iOS 11 and it will (up to) triple performance on the oldest models it supports (which are now 5 years old). In the car industry only Tesla does anything remotely similar.

Ian Schmidt

You missed Monday's big Apple shindig. iOS 12 will support the same phones as iOS 11 and it will (up to) triple performance on the oldest models it supports (which are now 5 years old). In the car industry only Tesla does anything remotely similar.

i didnt miss it, i bet it is imaginary triple speed up of all phones... I am still mad that my barely used iPad Air after update from iOS 7 to iOS 10 got so slow that is basically unusable.

Dont get me wrong, I am p/o that Toyota Europe is dragging their feet with these integrations and being silent on Apple Carplay and Alexa.

spwolf

i didnt miss it, i bet it is imaginary triple speed up of all phones... I am still mad that my barely used iPad Air after update from iOS 7 to iOS 10 got so slow that is basically unusable.

Dont get me wrong, I am p/o that Toyota Europe is dragging their feet with these integrations and being silent on Apple Carplay and Alexa.

Apple is notorious for that, Spwolf. Updating the iOS on an older model iPhone, iPad or etc..., will result in the device being slower than it once was. It doesn't even have to be that old. I have experienced this with an iPhone that's 2 years old.

This issue will play into Apple's hands. For the people want to update to iOS 10 to use the new CarPlay stuff but have an old phone, they will be out of luck - the phone might get insanely slow and glitchly.

Sakura

This issue will play into Apple's hands. For the people want to update to iOS 10 to use the new CarPlay stuff but have an old phone, they will be out of luck - the phone might get insanely slow and glitchly.

Again, they're claiming they've optimized all the code from the kernel scheduler on up to perform better on older devices, so wait and see if that's really the case.

Ian Schmidt

Again, they're claiming they've optimized all the code from the kernel scheduler on up to perform better on older devices, so wait and see if that's really the case.

Really? I guess we see then. I didn't know about that. I just had bad experiences with iOS upgrades.

Enough people had bad experiences that they're doing something about it :)