China Debates Import Tax Reduction, Could Bring Big Boost to Lexus Sales

First drives from media are coming in June.

I think exterior looks great. Interior hopefully looks good in real life, I am not that sure about big piece of plastic going down under media controls, but it might look novel and better than regular plastic going on HVAC. Lets see.

Big screens from LS of course look good, so do seats.

It seems ES has active stabilizator system? I dont see what else these "blue" things can be front and back.

p.s. did anyone catch that new AFS with LED headlights individually controls 24 LEDs in each headlight?

The ES clearly is GS replacement, interior is way more luxurious than GS, it is on par with the German 5 Series, A6 and E Class. The Lexus is better, it looks more functional, whereas the Germans are more bling.

But am I the only one that prefers 3 box sedans, than the new trend of sportback/coupe sedans?

spwolf

Did you really think they will make a wagon ES? To sell like 500 of them?

Lexus EU sells only hybrids, it is 98% of their sales... thats how good IS 2.0t and NX 2.0t are selling, they are in 2%.

Exactly. And the Lexus buyer will not carry cargo in their car, but comfort, something a wagon compromises, because the cargo compartment is not separate from the passenger compartment. The hybrid power train is enough, this car will be used as taxi, uber or waht ever, where fuel efficiency is important. Again, many forget that most sold German 'dream' cars are 4 cylinder diesels.

I fully respect opinions of other people and won't try to (I've given up) argue anymore that Lexus is doing what makes the most financial sense. I do believe the ES launch is not a strong one. No I'm not talking about ES-F or AWD, I'm talking about the lack of EV or PHEV-not even a concept-to catch all the buzz, no fancier rear seat options like a recliner with lumbar and leg support, that bin part steering wheel that appears on a UX all the way up to a LS, along with some questionable work done by their PR department. But it's not a weak launch either, it just makes too much sense.

I guess most of the media criticism will be about the obvious lack of EV or PHEV variant when every other competitor will be offering one. I don't think any them will scream "OH NO TWIN-TURBO RWD WAGON IT SUCKS BRING BACK THE V8 GS!".

Is this the Sunlight Green grandiosely described as "replicating the color of ocean water brightened by the sun"? Looks more like the Ginger Ale Metallic recently offered on a number of Fords in North America or, worse, the widely derided Desert Sage (6U3) hue offered on the Lexus IS for the 2006-08 model years.

KOHIPEET

I honestly don't know why Lexus even bothers to launch this in Europe. It will be available with one (!) single, 215 hp hybrid powertrain with NO AWD option and NO estate version, in a segment, where all of its rivals (My local dealer said this is indeed, to replace the GS), the 5 series, E-class and the A6 are all offering: Estate version, AWD along with more powerful engine options. Come on. I know it doesn't make too much sense to have a 350 hp daily driver, and it's ok if you don't want to play along the rules of the playing field, but then it's also ok not expect significant sales numbers. This thing is DOA in Europe.

I have very same feelings. RWD model with a great engine (450h) is replaced by FWD 300h. No way that 350 would come to Europe. So selling this car is impossible. Of course, Lexus will put some price tag that will kill this model whatsoever. By the way, if ES comes to Europe, that means that Camry will come too (to replace Avensis). That will be the last nail to ES's coffin.

Joaquin Ruhi

Is this the Sunlight Green grandiosely described as "replicating the color of ocean water brightened by the sun"? Looks more like the Ginger Ale Metallic recently offered on a number of Fords in North America or, worse, the widely derided Desert Sage (6U3) hue offered on the Lexus IS for the 2006-08 model years.

I parked once next to an IS with this color. On a "proper" sunlight it occured to me as green as an olive.

Sooo, I had an idea. It just came to me looking at the back seat of the new ES. Why can't they make it where the area I circled folds down like captains chairs?? The bench seat would remain but remove the inner armrest.

California reveal ... base model ... panoramic roof ... no rear spoiler ... interior with wood

TroyHoward

Sooo, I had an idea. It just came to me looking at the back seat of the new ES. Why can't they make it where the area I circled folds down like captains chairs?? The bench seat would remain but remove the inner armrest.

Captain chairs with full recline and optional massage would be a step too far and cannabalize LS sales. They can do a limited recliner with lumbar and leg support without removing the inner armrest and it will be much more desirable for me at least.

Videos: The 2019 Lexus ES & ES F SPORT

Three videos showing the sedan from all angles.

View the original article post

ssun30

I fully respect opinions of other people and won't try to (I've given up) argue anymore that Lexus is doing what makes the most financial sense. I do believe the ES launch is not a strong one. No I'm not talking about ES-F or AWD, I'm talking about the lack of EV or PHEV-not even a concept-to catch all the buzz, no fancier rear seat options like a recliner with lumbar and leg support, that bin part steering wheel that appears on a UX all the way up to a LS, along with some questionable work done by their PR department. But it's not a weak launch either, it just makes too much sense.

I guess most of the media criticism will be about the obvious lack of EV or PHEV variant when every other competitor will be offering one. I don't think any them will scream "OH NO TWIN-TURBO RWD WAGON IT SUCKS BRING BACK THE V8 GS!".

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

Gecko

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I will keep it simple. As Levi, Gecko and one or two others stated, and I hate to bust anyone's bubble. No More GS, for the immediate future. The Sportier, more powerful ES, & ES F sport is suppose to fill that void. Unfortunately. This Is Not an Opinion BTW. ;)

Sander

They made a mistake not making it AWD or RWD

That would be the GS. I don't get why people want the ES to be RWD, have the fit and finish of the LS and to have a lower entry price. It cost $$$ to make a RWD platform with the proper components. If the ES were to be RWD and to have the quality that it has now, it would be priced closed to the GS.

Exterior is beautiful but interior big disappointment.

spwolf

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

emptystreets130

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

I feel like there haven't been enough good photos released of the non F-Sport car to gauge what the interior really looks like. I saw a few of the tan/brown, but what about gray, or Noble Brown? More angles, more colors and more details, please.

I do not care for the swoosh that runs across the center stack and don't quite understand why it's there. Also, the door panels seem really flat and rather shapeless.

RichieRich

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

That's where the IS comes in. The IS is an entry level luxury car. If the ES is supposed to now compete with the E class, 5 series, etc, the interior needs a major overhaul. It's just cheap looking.

spwolf

Did you really think they will make a wagon ES? To sell like 500 of them?

Lexus EU sells only hybrids, it is 98% of their sales... thats how good IS 2.0t and NX 2.0t are selling, they are in 2%.

Well, to be honest, I'll give you that. I truly wasn't expecting a wagon, but I was expecting two hybrid powertrains, one around 210 HP and another around 310 HP and also two petrol engines. The 2.0 litre turbo with around 230 HP and a turbocharged engine developing around 330 HP and AWD offering, but no.

I wouldn't necessarily compare the NX to a large business sedan, but from what I see on the roads here, the NX200t is quite popular.

With the engine options I've mentioned above the ES would at LEAST be somewhat competitive against the germans, as from what I see, in Europe, people who buy premium cars, also expect premium performance and yes I know the bulk of the cars sold in this segment are indeed 2.0 turbocharged diesels, but even those are handily outclass -in acceleration- this 300h hybrid, especially on highway, where large business sedans are used the most.
(I mean have you seen the new A6? I practically hate every Audi, but even I wouldn't consider this ES over an A6 with, say a 2.0 tfsi)

All in all, I like the exterior, they've nailed it, but aside from aggressive pricing, I can't see how Lexus can make this model successful in Europe.

Now may some folks will stop the GS discontinuation non-sense after realizing that - as I said before -
- No AWD ES
- New GS is on development
:):)

Gecko

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

- I have seen every Avalon review there is, almost every single one says it is class leading vehicle. So it has some torque steer with 300hp engine, so what? So do NX and RX and rest of the best selling Toyota/Lexus lineup - obviously customers dont think it is a big deal, and Avalon/ES are supposedly much better than those vehicles dynamically.

- 2.0t does not sell in Europe at all. 98% of Lexus EU sales is hybrid. 2% is all these 2.0t and V8, F engines together in IS, GS, RC, RX, NX, LC, LS. There is no displacement tax, just fuel consumption tax. Obviously for us the customers it is much better for Lexus using 300h and not 250h, that would be a downer.

So engine introduced few days earlier in Avalon than in ES means that Toyota is leading and Lexus is following? Cmn, be realistic. Porsche uses VW engines. Audi uses VW engines that cheap Skoda uses. 3 and 5 and 7 series share engines. Mercedes uses Renault engines that Renault puts in $10k Clio.

That 2.5l is state of the art engine, it does not matter if it got shown 2 days before in Avalon. Heck I am surprised that they made it different from engine in Camry but I guess that does not matter anymore? It has to be all new engine? I mean thats funny.

Gecko

I feel like there haven't been enough good photos released of the non F-Sport car to gauge what the interior really looks like. I saw a few of the tan/brown, but what about gray, or Noble Brown? More angles, more colors and more details, please.

I do not care for the swoosh that runs across the center stack and don't quite understand why it's there. Also, the door panels seem really flat and rather shapeless.

Indeed... I dont like that swoosh either. I think they wanted to make it different from usual center stack for HVAC. It might actually look good in real life if quality of plastic is good, but I wish they stiched it with leather there :).

Something that I noticed in great video that krew has added from lexus... it seems they use different panels for seat heater controls, so if you have a model that does not have steering heater or rear shades or whatnot, you wont get blank buttons there... also that video shows seats, steering and rest of the interior as high quality really:

C-pillar is very RC like, I will give 'em that.

Madi

Now may some folks will stop the GS discontinuation non-sense after realizing that - as I said before -
- No AWD ES
- New GS is on development
:):)

You see, I doubt that. If a new GS is in development, then why release the ES in Europe? Only to have the IS, the ES and the new GS in a few years time, on a shrinking, extremely competitive market.

Unless Lexus wants to establish a brand new segment between the GS and the IS but this, I think is even less likely. (perhaps they'll price it just slightly above the IS but that would cannibalize IS' sales)

If they want to succeed in this segment (success meaning sales at least in ballpark with the other manufacturer's) they need to have another, more powerfull híbrid.

MT has by far the best pics, but keep in mind that colors seem to be off in many of them. Still very high res and show a lot of detail.
Doors look a bit plain from afar but they are also 80% leather and have handles from LC. I like it... also in close up shot, HVAC looks fine that swoosh seems like very nice plastic.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...k-review/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

spwolf

That 2.5l is state of the art engine, it does not matter if it got shown 2 days before in Avalon. Heck I am surprised that they made it different from engine in Camry but I guess that does not matter anymore? It has to be all new engine? I mean thats funny.

The thing is the word "brand new" kept popping out in the press release. Brand new with respect to what? With respect to the outgoing ES, sure, but that can't be more obvious. When using the Camry as a reference, that A25A is a year old. For a brief moment I did think there is something new given the "ES260" name. But then I read on and it says the engine has 38% thermal efficiency (down from 40%) and got even more confused. Did they somehow downgrade the engine? Or is it a typo? They did nothing to clarify that the ES260 is for Chinese domestic market only and that it is identical to the ES250. Then we had a bad selection of pictures like a generic brake disk and they spent no effort even adding brief descriptions of each picture in the official photo gallery.

Seriously, their press release looks like a last-minute effort. The PR people certainly weren't doing their homework. It is a very poor job.

^Is that brown plastic on the center console?