Teased: The Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan

Yes. The point is not about whether the ES will be successful. It already is and will continue to be. We are saying this doesn't look good enough as a GS replacement. If the ES couldn't get more (or outright lose) buyers in that segment, then it had failed its mission. It will succeed in being an ES, but probably fail in becoming 'more than an ES'. That's what we are concerned about.
That being said, as a 5ES owner I don't care that much. As long as they can offer a four-seat 'super-lux' trim I will buy one in a heartbeat (otherwise an Alphard). I've given up on the V6 and just have to accept the downgrade to an I4 hybrid

Gecko

All of the media reviews will mourn the loss of the GS and say that the ES is not as good of a car as Mercedes and Audi. Too boring, too bland, FWD, doesn't drive well, etc. Then it will be more expensive than the Buick, and they'll probably complain about that too.

Now, we can also say that media doesn't matter. Does it? I think yes, and I think Lexus underestimates the value of positive PR quite heavily. You will bring up all of the positive press for the Honda Accord and how that hasn't translated into sales. There are lots of other important factors like leasing and financing options, and a polarizing design.

My point is this: This ES will surely continue to be successful, and it will continue to sell to people who have bought ESs in the past. However, that is a bit if a niche market in between RWD entry level sedans and midsize premium sedans like E, A6, 5er, etc. Lexus has been able to cover all of those bases with IS, niche ES, and GS, but when they remove GS... it just doesn't seem that they've done enough to properly elevate the ES if it looks like this. This car will not sell to the GS buyer, and quite frankly, I am not sure it will really compete with E Class. FWD A6 variants? Maybe.

Well, lets not forget that GS got reviewed as best car in class... it did nothing for its sales though. GS-F got great reviews. GS sales tanked in the meantime.

And ES gets reviewed well as a luxury sedan too.

And who is GS buyer? It is dwindling number of people. I think forums and magazines overestimate number of enthusiasts that buy 5 series for driving pleasure and RWD, since by far their best selling models are 4cly ones... against those models GS350 competed well. People buying those cars dont care about RWD.

It is ok that you or me or krew or someone else here is not ES buyer. A lot more people are ES buyers compared to GS though, so obviously they need to cater to those people.

Gecko

All of the media reviews will mourn the loss of the GS and say that the ES is not as good of a car as Mercedes and Audi. Too boring, too bland, FWD, doesn't drive well, etc. Then it will be more expensive than the Buick, and they'll probably complain about that too.

Now, we can also say that media doesn't matter. Does it? I think yes, and I think Lexus underestimates the value of positive PR quite heavily. You will bring up all of the positive press for the Honda Accord and how that hasn't translated into sales. There are lots of other important factors like leasing and financing options, and a polarizing design.

My point is this: This ES will surely continue to be successful, and it will continue to sell to people who have bought ESs in the past. However, that is a bit if a niche market in between RWD entry level sedans and midsize premium sedans like E, A6, 5er, etc. Lexus has been able to cover all of those bases with IS, niche ES, and GS, but when they remove GS... it just doesn't seem that they've done enough to properly elevate the ES if it looks like this. This car will not sell to the GS buyer, and quite frankly, I am not sure it will really compete with E Class. FWD A6 variants? Maybe.

Well, lets not forget that GS got reviewed as best car in class... it did nothing for its sales though. GS-F got great reviews. GS sales tanked in the meantime.

And ES gets reviewed well as a luxury sedan too.

And who is GS buyer? It is dwindling number of people. I think forums and magazines overestimate number of enthusiasts that buy 5 series for driving pleasure and RWD, since by far their best selling models are 4cly ones... against those models GS350 competed well. People buying those cars dont care about RWD.

It is ok that you or me or krew or someone else here is not ES buyer. A lot more people are ES buyers compared to GS though, so obviously they need to cater to those people.

ssun30

Yes. The point is not about whether the ES will be successful. It already is and will continue to be. We are saying this doesn't look good enough as a GS replacement. If the ES couldn't get more (or outright lose) buyers in that segment, then it had failed its mission. It will succeed in being an ES, but probably fail in becoming 'more than an ES'. That's what we are concerned about.
That being said, as a 5ES owner I don't care that much. As long as they can offer a four-seat 'super-lux' trim I will buy one in a heartbeat (otherwise an Alphard). I've given up on the V6 and just have to accept the downgrade to an I4 hybrid

Looking at Avalon and Rav4, I am sure new ES will be more luxurious than before and that will especially handle better than before with true F-Sport editions. TNGA does handle well, so it will be more than ES for sure, but it will never be an GS. And that is OK.

ssun30

Yes. The point is not about whether the ES will be successful. It already is and will continue to be. We are saying this doesn't look good enough as a GS replacement. If the ES couldn't get more (or outright lose) buyers in that segment, then it had failed its mission. It will succeed in being an ES, but probably fail in becoming 'more than an ES'. That's what we are concerned about.
That being said, as a 5ES owner I don't care that much. As long as they can offer a four-seat 'super-lux' trim I will buy one in a heartbeat (otherwise an Alphard). I've given up on the V6 and just have to accept the downgrade to an I4 hybrid

Looking at Avalon and Rav4, I am sure new ES will be more luxurious than before and that will especially handle better than before with true F-Sport editions. TNGA does handle well, so it will be more than ES for sure, but it will never be an GS. And that is OK.

A few random points:

- In US, GS has never been a big seller because of the ES - I have gone over this many times and any person who knows and understands the sales process in a Lexus dealership will tell you this is the reason. The fact is that the ES is nearly the same size with the same features and costs 1/3 less. Period.

- I do not have an expectation that the GS will return, even as a four door coupe. Such a car would be even more expensive and lower volume than even the current GS - and compounding that is a market that's heavy on SUVs. I think "niche, premium" products will be the LC, LF-1 and next gen GX, if it lives. There would have to be a massive swing back to passenger cars to justify the business case for this.

- I've also said this before, but the first drives of the Camry all noted that the V6 overwhelmed the chassis and was nose heavy. Some things can be done to fix this (suspension tuning), but it's not a great starting point for an ES that will hopefully have more than 300hp and probably more torque due to turbos.

A few random points:

- In US, GS has never been a big seller because of the ES - I have gone over this many times and any person who knows and understands the sales process in a Lexus dealership will tell you this is the reason. The fact is that the ES is nearly the same size with the same features and costs 1/3 less. Period.

- I do not have an expectation that the GS will return, even as a four door coupe. Such a car would be even more expensive and lower volume than even the current GS - and compounding that is a market that's heavy on SUVs. I think "niche, premium" products will be the LC, LF-1 and next gen GX, if it lives. There would have to be a massive swing back to passenger cars to justify the business case for this.

- I've also said this before, but the first drives of the Camry all noted that the V6 overwhelmed the chassis and was nose heavy. Some things can be done to fix this (suspension tuning), but it's not a great starting point for an ES that will hopefully have more than 300hp and probably more torque due to turbos.

Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan

From Best Car.

View the original article post

Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan

From Best Car.

View the original article post

I'm very enthusiastic about these renderings -- the front is ripped straight from the LS, that's ok with me. I can't afford a brand new LS anyway :D.

Rear is bland, though, and the lightbar here doesn't have the same punch as on the UX.

Even though it doesn't replace the GS, I would buy this car. The GS has been unable to build any traction whatsoever, even when it was the best-handling car in the segment.

I always maintain the GS suffered from always being the first vehicle to debut a new design language. First L-Finesse, then the Spindle Grille -- in both cases, the design had yet to be fully formed and the GS always stood apart from the rest of the lineup.

I would prefer a hiatus for a couple years and the GS coming back reinvented into something else. My preference would be a four-door coupe of some description, maybe the car interpretation of the LF-1.

I'm very enthusiastic about these renderings -- the front is ripped straight from the LS, that's ok with me. I can't afford a brand new LS anyway :D.

Rear is bland, though, and the lightbar here doesn't have the same punch as on the UX.

Even though it doesn't replace the GS, I would buy this car. The GS has been unable to build any traction whatsoever, even when it was the best-handling car in the segment.

I always maintain the GS suffered from always being the first vehicle to debut a new design language. First L-Finesse, then the Spindle Grille -- in both cases, the design had yet to be fully formed and the GS always stood apart from the rest of the lineup.

I would prefer a hiatus for a couple years and the GS coming back reinvented into something else. My preference would be a four-door coupe of some description, maybe the car interpretation of the LF-1.

I find the render to be quite legit too! It looks amazing, but it looks good for an ES replacement...not so much a GS replacement IMO. I say this because the GS is sporty whereas this is more luxurious (nothing wrong with that of course). I still have confidence the GS will come back as an A7 competitor later on.

I find the render to be quite legit too! It looks amazing, but it looks good for an ES replacement...not so much a GS replacement IMO. I say this because the GS is sporty whereas this is more luxurious (nothing wrong with that of course). I still have confidence the GS will come back as an A7 competitor later on.

I think this looks a lot better than the current ES, and that a higher-end AWD version could fill the space between the ES and LS better than the current GS does. The GS is the car between the IS and a high-performance premium sedan that Lexus never bothered to make.

I think this looks a lot better than the current ES, and that a higher-end AWD version could fill the space between the ES and LS better than the current GS does. The GS is the car between the IS and a high-performance premium sedan that Lexus never bothered to make.

So I will restore my GS-F & my previous generation GS450h and making them as the idols of good dream

So I will restore my GS-F & my previous generation GS450h and making them as the idols of good dream

Since we now have some PU info it's becoming more obvious that US, Russia, Ukraine and Middle East will keep the current V6 while other regions that prefer downsizing will get the 2.5 Turbo with similar horsepower to current V6. I'm also suspecting EU will get 2.0 from new Toyota Corolla Hatchback and hybrid option goes global. Maybe they have 450h trick up their sleeve new ES as well.

Since we now have some PU info it's becoming more obvious that US, Russia, Ukraine and Middle East will keep the current V6 while other regions that prefer downsizing will get the 2.5 Turbo with similar horsepower to current V6. I'm also suspecting EU will get 2.0 from new Toyota Corolla Hatchback and hybrid option goes global. Maybe they have 450h trick up their sleeve new ES as well.

Gecko

This car will not sell to the GS buyer, and quite frankly, I am not sure it will really compete with E Class. FWD A6 variants? Maybe.

I agree with you.

After having four IS, in a couple of year I would like change my IS300H MY2017 with a bigger car.
LS is too much, so I had great expectations for the next ES (if available in EU) but if this render is similar to the final version, to be honest, I am so sorry if they end the GS development, the new ES.... does not give me enough emotions.

I hope the final version will be more brave and more competitive with A6.

And also I am curious to see inside and, above all the technology.

Gecko

This car will not sell to the GS buyer, and quite frankly, I am not sure it will really compete with E Class. FWD A6 variants? Maybe.

I agree with you.

After having four IS, in a couple of year I would like change my IS300H MY2017 with a bigger car.
LS is too much, so I had great expectations for the next ES (if available in EU) but if this render is similar to the final version, to be honest, I am so sorry if they end the GS development, the new ES.... does not give me enough emotions.

I hope the final version will be more brave and more competitive with A6.

And also I am curious to see inside and, above all the technology.

This redesign looks good , the GS will be missed and maybe the GS F may go up in price . If this is true .

This redesign looks good , the GS will be missed and maybe the GS F may go up in price . If this is true .

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

Why is the

maiaramdan

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

The Avalon looks way more bold, and its basically the same car with a cheaper price tag, I don't see why not. I feel like ES buyer are mostly brand snobs that buys the Lexus brand. Unless it has AWD and I doubt that will happen right at launch.

Why is the

maiaramdan

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

The Avalon looks way more bold, and its basically the same car with a cheaper price tag, I don't see why not. I feel like ES buyer are mostly brand snobs that buys the Lexus brand. Unless it has AWD and I doubt that will happen right at launch.

A Avalon is a Avalon , a Lexus ES is a way of life ! Add it along with the LS and it’s the real reason we all are on this site . These two cars built what we all talk about all the time . And the head lights look cool .

A Avalon is a Avalon , a Lexus ES is a way of life ! Add it along with the LS and it’s the real reason we all are on this site . These two cars built what we all talk about all the time . And the head lights look cool .

Killing the GS for this Hyundai lookalike. The sad part now is toyota have found direction when it comes to styling lexus is still confused