Teased: The Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan

Gecko

As many of us have discussed, they are due for a new hybrid system for ES, NX, RX, etc... so... maybe that's it? It seems to me that ES300h has been very popular here. I'd say 25% of ESs I see are 300h.

As much as I would love a new V6 and AWD, I've decided to tamper my expectations, haha. I think I was hoping for a car that straddled the line between GS and ES- a la Audi A6 in execution, but it seems more realistic that Lexus is just done with the entire concept of a GS and is going to predictably evolve the ES. With that said, I'm now expecting 2GR-FKS with 8AT and the new Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD system as optional. Offering an ES 250 might not be a bad idea since it's a relatively light chassis and the new 2.5L DF 4cyl is a strong engine. 4cyl TLX has been a strong seller... not everyone cares about HP.

So maybe...

ES 250 - 205hp I4
ES 300h - new hybrid system based on I4, 230 combined HP
ES 350 - 301hp V6

New 300h for FWD platform is out and it is in new Camry and new Avalon. It is quite an improvement over older system with D4S as well as newer hybrid system.

Question is if they will do new 400h or 350h or 2.5l turbo or 3.0l turbo for FWD platforms too. Since more powerful version is mostly needed for US market, I dont think it will be a hybrid. But sure, I would like to see 2 hybrids and 2 petrol engines for western markets too.

It looks indeed like the photo of the ES, which was leaked on Monday.
That photo that shows a bit more (mainly than the headlights), it didn't look like a F Sport version, don't you think ?
So, is this the grille of the F Sport or not ?
View attachment 2800

But anyway, this is very promising!:pray::thumbsup:

spwolf

New 300h for FWD platform is out and it is in new Camry and new Avalon. It is quite an improvement over older system with D4S as well as newer hybrid system.

Indeed - it is an impressive system, and I assume the 2NX will get it at the redesign. It could definitely go into the ES with no problem, but I wonder if they are developing a more powerful hybrid - like you say, a 400h or 350h - could that be put into ES also? It would be a compelling argument but I assume Lexus would find it unnecessary since it's a relatively light chassis.

At this point they have the new 2.0L hybrid, 2.5L hybrid and 3.5L multi-stage hybrid. What's strange to me is that the 3.5L multi stage hybrid powertrain isn't actually accounted for in the Dynamic Force chart we've all been looking it. It seems that the transmission is included - but not the engine:



2.5L hybrid (208hp) seems good for Camry, Rav4, NX, etc and 3.5L hybrid (354hp) seems reserved for flagship products, so there is a missing link here. Maybe it is a 3.0L hybrid V6? That would certainly make sense for RX. Weird thing is that the current 3.5L RX hybrid makes 311hp and is an older system... so will the new system be down in displacement and horsepower? So much unknown at this point... I can't even really speculate.

Question is if they will do new 400h or 350h or 2.5l turbo or 3.0l turbo for FWD platforms too. Since more powerful version is mostly needed for US market, I dont think it will be a hybrid. But sure, I would like to see 2 hybrids and 2 petrol engines for western markets too.

For western markets, they really should have 2.0T I4 with ~280hp and a new 3.0T V6 with ~375hp. I'd love for either to go into a next gen ES, but I foresee Lexus thinking the 2GR-FKS is "good enough for now" with 300hp. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?

OlFius

It looks indeed like the photo of the ES, which was leaked on Monday.
That photo that shows a bit more (mainly than the headlights), it didn't look like a F Sport version, don't you think ?
So, is this the grille of the F Sport or not ?
View attachment 2800

But anyway, this is very promising!:pray::thumbsup:

This is probably the base model. In the spy shots the vehicle that most agree was the F-Sport had a mesh pattern grille we typically see on other F-Sport models.

OlFius

It looks indeed like the photo of the ES, which was leaked on Monday.
That photo that shows a bit more (mainly than the headlights), it didn't look like a F Sport version, don't you think ?
So, is this the grille of the F Sport or not ?
View attachment 2800

But anyway, this is very promising!:pray::thumbsup:

@Gecko posted spy shots of f-sport, it has "usual" f-sport grille.

@Gecko we have talked a lot about this. In case you missed it: the more powerful hybrid drivetrain slotted between the 2.5L THS and multistage will be a ~210kW/280hp unit and will show up on the next Highlander. It is unknown at this point which ICE unit (definitely not the A25A-FKS/FXS) and battery pack it will use. It's strange there is no plan (at least not in that picture) for a 450h replacement for GA-K. But since there could be multiple 'variants' of the same hybrid drivetrain, a 300+hp E-four could be developed for the new RX.

Gecko

2.5L hybrid (208hp) seems good for Camry, Rav4, NX, etc and 3.5L hybrid (354hp) seems reserved for flagship products, so there is a missing link here. Maybe it is a 3.0L hybrid V6? That would certainly make sense for RX. Weird thing is that the current 3.5L RX hybrid makes 311hp and is an older system... so will the new system be down in displacement and horsepower? So much unknown at this point... I can't even really speculate.



For western markets, they really should have 2.0T I4 with ~280hp and a new 3.0T V6 with ~375hp. I'd love for either to go into a next gen ES, but I foresee Lexus thinking the 2GR-FKS is "good enough for now" with 300hp. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?

Well, EU cars nothing about petrols, so no need for 2.0t there... over 300hp engine is only really needed for the USA. So it is up to US market. 2.0t would replace V6, which is also not great for US market, while 2.5l 4cly turbo would be faster than 300hp V6 but still seems like not great engine for US market.

I also agree that they will end up with 230-250hp hybrid, since they plan to add it to Highlander, it cant be 208hp engine from Camry. But what will it be?

Lol "vertical slat" lexus give it up you can't do vertical slat on something that is not straight what is this vertical spindle slat. The only way to be creative with this grill is cut it in half.

Axel

Lol "vertical slat" lexus give it up you can't do vertical slat on something that is not straight what is this vertical spindle slat. The only way to be creative with this grill is cut it in half.

I really kind of like it... and am in favor of variations of the inner material to keep things fresh. LS and LC have that intricate 3D pattern, UX is chunkier and more fitting for an SUV, this ES grille looks cool as well IMO. I think the variation keeps things interesting.

Even Mercedes is now using several different grilles for luxury, sport, AMG, etc.

@ssun30

latest from bestcar on new corolla versions - wagon should come in 2019 with 250hp 1.6l 3cly engine - this is second time this 1.6l 3cly has appeared, first time was in UX info. So who knows anymore what will they do for 300+ hp Lexus :)

Axel

Lol "vertical slat" lexus give it up you can't do vertical slat on something that is not straight what is this vertical spindle slat. The only way to be creative with this grill is cut it in half.

oh, good. the guy that comments only hate on Lexus at a Lexus Enthusiast forum is back.

OlFius

It looks indeed like the photo of the ES, which was leaked on Monday.
That photo that shows a bit more (mainly than the headlights), it didn't look like a F Sport version, don't you think ?
So, is this the grille of the F Sport or not ?
View attachment 2800

But anyway, this is very promising!:pray::thumbsup:

I don’t think this is an F-sport grill, all the F-sport grills I can think of have a mesh pattern and this does not.

First this grill is very nice ! Second this picture is a hybrid ES I hope it comes with more mpg like 10 to 20 more . Third please let it have a new infotainment system that works on the move .

Gecko

Surely it will be 2.0T base with optional V6.

I’m guessing the ES will debut with the 2.5L NA or even together with a 2.0L NA in Beijing because that where the bread and butter lies in China. We might have to wait for later shows ( is there an NY show late this year?) to see more powerful options offered in US

No there is no other show this year in New York. It just ended on Sunday .

GTG

First this grill is very nice ! Second this picture is a hybrid ES I hope it comes with more mpg like 10 to 20 more . Third please let it have a new infotainment system that works on the move .

I imagine it will have CarPlay, just like the UX. So big upgrade coming in that regard.

amoschen7

I’m guessing the ES will debut with the 2.5L NA or even together with a 2.0L NA in Beijing because that where the bread and butter lies in China. We might have to wait for later shows ( is there an NY show late this year?) to see more powerful options offered in US

Have to figure they will announce all engines at once, as there are no other shows until the Fall. I imagine the ES comes arrives in dealers late this summer.

Do we have a bet going on engines? I'm figuring it will mirror the Camry exactly, right down to the 301-hp 3.5-liter V-6 engine. Big thing for me is AWD -- I can't believe how excited I am about an ES. Just a very interesting model.

krew

I imagine it will have CarPlay, just like the UX. So big upgrade coming in that regard.



Have to figure they will announce all engines at once, as there are no other shows until the Fall. I imagine the ES comes arrives in dealers late this summer.

Do we have a bet going on engines? I'm figuring it will mirror the Camry exactly, right down to the 301-hp 3.5-liter V-6 engine. Big thing for me is AWD -- I can't believe how excited I am about an ES. Just a very interesting model.

Indeed AWD for ES is interesting.

If Lexus does ditch GS and only uses ES as the only their mid-sized sedan, the addition of AWD will become crucial to be be competitive, especially in North American market. Being AWD, Lexus can also offer more powerful engine variants.

spwolf

latest from bestcar on new corolla versions - wagon should come in 2019 with 250hp 1.6l 3cly engine - this is second time this 1.6l 3cly has appeared, first time was in UX info. So who knows anymore what will they do for 300+ hp Lexus :)

That information is false. 250PS/5500rpm means 320Nm of torque at that rpm, which doesn't line up with the peak number of 294Nm at 3000rpm. And a 1.6 I3 just makes no sense. Looks like someone isn't doing their homework.

krew

(...) I can't believe how excited I am about an ES. Just a very interesting model.

I second that. Lexus should really be going all in with this new ES since it replaces the GS in Europe, is the first ES to be sold in Western Europe (to my knowledge) and should go straight for the jugular of the A6 (one of the favorite large luxury cars in both China and Europe).

And as a bonus. If the ES becomes a success in Europe, then maybe, just maybe, Lexus might reintroduce itself in Denmark so that I can finally purchase a new Lexus here without paying 40% more than similar German cars!

ssun30

That information is false. 250PS/5500rpm means 320Nm of torque at that rpm, which doesn't line up with the peak number of 294Nm at 3000rpm. This discrepancy is very easy to spot since a 250PS motor usually have at least 350Nm of peak torque. Looks like someone isn't doing their homework.

I am sure numbers are not 100% correct, but at the same time, it seems that 1.6l 3cly is coming for sure.

LDeleuran

And as a bonus. If the ES becomes a success in Europe, then maybe, just maybe, Lexus might reintroduce itself in Denmark so that I can finally purchase a new Lexus here without paying 40% more than similar German cars!

Huh -- not to get too off-track here, but when did Lexus leave Denmark? Hadn't heard that before.

Also, do you live near Billund and if so, do you take Lego orders? :D

krew

Huh -- not to get too off-track here, but when did Lexus leave Denmark? Hadn't heard that before.

Also, do you live near Billund and if so, do you take Lego orders? :D

believe it or not, there are more markets in Europe where Lexus does not have a single dealer. UX, ES, NX and IS (and CT?) are very important gateway vehicles for the brand, since they are in the price bracket where most of the sales happen. So both UX and ES are very important to keep Lexus dealers profitable and in expansion mode, a bit problem when sales dropped off in 2010 after recalls, Lexus was hurt a lot in Europe.

krew

Huh -- not to get too off-track here, but when did Lexus leave Denmark? Hadn't heard that before.

I knew that, but I found out by accident, when researching a March 2016 Kaizen Factor story titled What markets will Lexus enter next?. After discussing what I felt were the 4 new markets Lexus was most likely to enter (Turkey, India, Mexico and Cambodia), I delved into other possibilities, which included this passage:

Moving to Europe, Lexus of Europe’s official map on its home page makes spotting the gaps rather easy. And one such gap comes as a shocker: Denmark. We were ready to put it in our top 4, except that a bit of research, the remains of the official Lexus Denmark website and an article or two inform us that Lexus actually withdrew from the Danish market on 1 July 2013, citing the country’s onerously high taxes, even on environmentally-friendly hybrids. And Democrat socialist presidential candidate Bernie Sanders wants us to be more like Denmark?! Heaven forbid…

The biggest gap in official European Lexus availability is parts of the Baltic region (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania and Macedonia). Also lacking an official Lexus presence are Belarus, Moldova and Georgia.

Joaquin Ruhi

I knew that, but I found out by accident, when researching a March 2016 Kaizen Factor story titled What markets will Lexus enter next?. After discussing what I felt were the 4 new markets Lexus was most likely to enter (Turkey, India, Mexico and Cambodia), I delved into other possibilities, which included this passage:

Balkans, not Baltic, big difference :). There was a lexus dealer in Bosnia but closed, also Lexus Croatia closed few years ago and softly reopened this year.

spwolf

Balkans, not Baltic, big difference :). There was a lexus dealer in Bosnia but closed, also Lexus Croatia closed few years ago and softly reopened this year.

:dizzy: Yikes! I'm embarrassed to have made such a silly mistake. Thank you for pointing it out. I just fixed the original story.

Joaquin Ruhi

:dizzy: Yikes! I'm embarrassed to have made such a silly mistake. Thank you for pointing it out. I just fixed the original story.

no biggie... I often check all sales stats around the world, it is a hobby these days since I dont work in automotive anymore, and I find it interesting that in quite few markets where Toyota sells really well, Lexus barely sells anything. I would guess cars like UX and ES might change that in the future.

An AWD ES hybrid would be awesome so I don't have to go to another CUV for those features.

OlFius

It looks indeed like the photo of the ES, which was leaked on Monday.
That photo that shows a bit more (mainly than the headlights), it didn't look like a F Sport version, don't you think ?
So, is this the grille of the F Sport or not ?
View attachment 2800

But anyway, this is very promising!:pray::thumbsup:

That is too regal to be the F-Sport grille. If you remember, the F-Sport grilles are ALWAYS mesh.

Why doesn't Lexus say that it is the next-gen ES? They just said it's a new global debut.

This may be a stretch, but what if Lexus is debuting an all-new nameplate to replace both the GS and ES? A car that is a mix of both models: dynamics of GS, size of ES, FWD and less powerful engine options to appeal to ES buyers, etc.

^^^
If it's front mid = ES
If it's rear mid = GS