Lexus Europe Planning to Discontinue GS Sedan?

RIP my beloved car, ES will never take the high end GS and there will be a big pricing gap between the top ES and the base LS

supra93

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/03/lexus-stop-producing-gs-europe-april/

so the 300b program rumored was never existed?
Is there a chance that maybe lexus was planning on a four dour coupe (replaces GS) under a different name scheme?

sl0519

so the 300b program rumored was never existed?
Is there a chance that maybe lexus was planning on a four dour coupe (replaces GS) under a different name scheme?

Lexus sells very few GS's per year in Europe... I would guess most are GS300h "Business" fleet vehicles where ES will compete much better. So it does not make sense to have both vehicles next to each other. If new GS comes out as sedan/coupe like LS, then it will have its place.

So Lexus Europe sold 76.602 cars, 1763 of them being GS, in 2017.
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/01/10/lexus-europe-2017-sales-report/

I have been in touch with @Carmaker1 within the last few days and I don't think he would mind me sharing with you what he told me: "The 300B programe still shows up as SOP Q2 2019 in some industry-access places ... A new GS-F in development doesn't make sense, if it is going to die altogether." He also pointed out that the gap between the ES and the $75k LS, left indefinitely, is not workable.

So let us think positively ... this report concerns production of the current GS in Europe only.

oh my god NO!!! okay, so the "GS death" rumor has been swirling around awhile now, but thats always what i thought it was. just rumors. but if the GS is getting canned in europe, im afraid we may be next, which would be a cryin shame. of all the sedans the GS-350 F-sport is my absolute favorite, of the "normal" cars. its a perfectly rounded, sleek styled well fitted sports sedan that handles better than anything else. it feels almost as good as a real standard transmission in auto-stick mode, has a wonderful snarl to it when pushed and is just awesome all the way around. EVERYTHING IS AWESOME about the 4GS.. well, minus the 200t... sorry, i just cant get behind that. i wasnt a real fan of the 3GS as a whole, but the old GS460 was a monster and crazy rare. loved the 2GS as well, but the current one is just so perfect. a FWD/AWD ES will NEVER be a GS!!!! dont get me wrong, i like the ES, but it isnt RWD. (something ive been praying for that wont probably ever happen) i know the GS isnt a huge seller like it used to be, but it will be a very very sad day for myself and many others if they kill the GS.

RAL

I have been in touch with @Carmaker1 within the last few days and I don't think he would mind me sharing with you what he told me: "The 300B programe still shows up as SOP Q2 2019 in some industry-access places ... A new GS-F in development doesn't make sense, if it is going to die altogether." He also pointed out that the gap between the ES and the $75k LS, left indefinitely, is not workable.

So let us think positively ... this report concerns Europe only.

in this case, it is ES taking current GS300h place in Europe, with GS being later reborn as as 4 door coupe.

In Europe it makes sense to cut it since having two cars of similar size and price currently does not make sense when GS sells 150 copies per month across 20+ countries. It takes floor space and dealer funds.

Funny enough, it was both myself and Kevin/krew made this cancellation rumour garner global publicity. That was because I found it in December 2016, doing some reading of Japanese-text Mag X on holiday. It wasn't krew until reported on it in April 2017, that the auto media barely even "noticed" anything regarding the GS. Now it seems I have to continue doing the opposite. To be blunt, it is really give or take here.

I myself was shocked by a revelation I had to make regarding Nissan's Z, which I had long heard about being redesigned. Lexus could easily pull an Infiniti (or Nissan) and infinitely delay new product in that area, like they have with IS-F and GS-F (was in planning for two generations).

You saw what I had to reveal about Nissan's Z35 being canceled a few months ago, yet know no one has reported on that reality and instead are saying a "400Z" is coming to Tokyo 2018. SMH. Media can and will be lied to, if convenient in the present and can easily do the lying themselves.

Lexus can and will have a hiatus between generations, but how big of one is the question? How do they expect a new nameplate, FWD saloon to succeed in Europe, when Honda's own Legend (RL) and Accord (TSX) were killed off? The closest competitors to the ES in Europe. Wouldn't an RX be a more attractive propositon, rather than wasting marketing expenses in creating a new market for the ES?

The biggest concern was why they took so long (and pretty much still haven't), to introduce a 7-8 seater Lexus for mainland Europe and the UK? My cousin's husband, who works for Toyota UK, was unnerved that his RX450h couldn't seat 7-8 people nor did Toyota sell anything like that brand new for him at either brand (as in Kluger/Highlander). Yet it is somehow more pressing, to dump the GS in Europe and then introduce the ES there, instead of a GA-K or GA-L based 7-seater.

I look forward to seeing how this all plays out over the next 2 years. Other than Volvo, this segment feels very dead in regards to FWD based midsizers. Fleet-spec Bimmers/Benzes/Quad Ringers have more market presence, which explains the failure of the GS in Europe.

Yes, the L10 generation was to end production in 2018 originally and then be replaced at the end of year. When I saw a change in dates, to April 2019 SOP for the next one and other info, I had great expectations.

I really didn't want to touch this subject in the meantime, until I spoke with some Toyota people and got absolute confirmation (aside from dealer folks).

sl0519

so the 300b program rumored was never existed?
Is there a chance that maybe lexus was planning on a four dour coupe (replaces GS) under a different name scheme?

It wasn't rumoured. I plainly have no reason to make up something like that, as these cars are development for years before introduction. What is deeply happening with it at every step of GS product planning and development, is something very few people have access to outside of Japan.

Another nameplate though, I am not certain about that. Different nameplate and execution isn't a GS replacement, that would plainly be an entirely new model.

Even the new Peugeot 508 is less of a FWD sedan like Passat, but more like a FWD A5, like Arteon. From the spy pics the ES looks a lot more sporty than comfortable. Have to wait and see.

Carmaker1

Lexus can and will have a hiatus between generations, but how big of one is the question? How do they expect a new nameplate, FWD saloon to succeed in Europe, when Honda's own Legend (RL) and Accord (TSX) were killed off? The closest competitors to the ES in Europe. Wouldn't an RX be a more attractive propositon, rather than wasting marketing expenses in creating a new market for the ES?

The biggest concern was why they took so long (and pretty much still haven't), to introduce a 7-8 seater Lexus for mainland Europe and the UK? My cousin's husband, who works for Toyota UK, was unnerved that his RX450h couldn't seat 7-8 people nor did Toyota sell anything like that brand new for him at either brand (as in Kluger/Highlander). Yet it is somehow more pressing, to dump the GS in Europe and then introduce the ES there, instead of a GA-K or GA-L based 7-seater.

I look forward to seeing how this all plays out over the next 2 years. Other than Volvo, this segment feels very dead in regards to FWD based midsizers. Fleet-spec Bimmers/Benzes/Quad Ringers have more market presence, which explains the failure of the GS in Europe.

I dont think Europe cares about their fleet saloons being FWD or RWD. Most Audi's these days are FWD models with 2.0l diesel. Used to be 3.0 TDI AWD... So ES will fit there well enough and sell substantially better than GS ever had... of course, it will sell nothing like NX or RX, but if price is right it will sell better than IS.

I dont think 7 seater is a big deal here in EU. They sell Highlander in Russia and even LX, which is a best seller there, but these cars are too big and too expensive for Toyota EU.

p.s. Toyota/Lexus Europe has sold: ES, LX, Highlander in Russia for a long time now. Toyota Russia has two factories that produce Land Cruiser and Camry too (to what extent, I am not sure). It is quite possible that next generation Highlander with 300h powertrain will sell in rest of the Europe, just like the current rumor is that new Camry will take Avensis place in Europe.

Current Highlander simply had no powertrain that could sell here.

spwolf

Current Highlander simply had no powertrain that could sell here.

Toyota did the integration of 8AR-FTS into the Highlander. It's just too big for Europe.

ssun30

Toyota did the integration of 8AR-FTS into the Highlander. It's just too big for Europe.

it is also not interesting - 2.0 turbo petrol engine with 250hp is not interesting vehicle in EU - we can see that Lexus has 98% of EU sales being hybrid despite 2.0t being available in many countries - nobody cares about relatively high CO2 petrol engine. 300h would be interesting with low CO2.

also current Highlander would be too heavy for 200hp hybrid... so I guess they also plan to put it on diet.

Lexus Europe Planning to Discontinue GS Sedan?

Report claims GS production will stop in April.

View the original article post

Yes, the GS will be discontinued in Europe. Yes, the new ES is finally coming to Europe. And yes, the turbocharged engines of the IS/NX/RX models are also canceled.

Steve

Yes, the GS will be discontinued in Europe. Yes, the new ES is finally coming to Europe. And yes, the turbocharged engines of the IS/NX/RX models are also canceled – at least in most parts of Europe

Where do you have the info about the turbo models from? Without the 2.0 turbo the IS and NX only have the 300h engine here! The 2.0 turbo accounts for 10% of IS, 29% of NX and a lot of RX sales - it makes no sense to pull it. Are you sure it is not just confusion with the 200t models being rebranded as "300"? The engine remains the same - we are not getting the detuned 3.5 in the IS for Europe.

I like the GS and I've owned a number over the years. I just can't get excited about the plans for the ES. Quite honestly, I like the AMG S63, it's much more expensive than the GS would be, but the ES will not be a performance car, where the GS tried to be and was, in a sense, in its price range. I understand that the GS doesn't sell,so it's best from a business POV to let it go, but Lexus will be missing an important part of this segment that BMW and AMG/Mercedes will continue to dominate. I morn the loss of the GS and what they might have made the GS F into

Lexus brand will have to focus on selling premium cars and fulfilling people's dreams,
this will never go hand in hand with sales reports,

for those who want to compromise (and it is unfortunately the majority of the buyers) they can get a Toyota,
it doesn't makes sense to try to make Lexus another Toyota brand, UX-> CH-R, ES-> Avalon.

GS is the car model that makes the Lexus stand out from the crowd and especially the GS 450h.

Toyota's are for Toyota buyers, no disrespect allowed = volume sales.
Lexus' are for (should be) for Lexus buyers = premium brand, only appealing to the buyers at the top end of any given market segment.
Why confuse the two?

The GS is a true premium brand car. I've owned my GS250 F Sport (the largest capacity non-hybrid we can get in the UK) for 4 months now. It's a beautiful car, in every respect. For a 2013 car, it's loaded with features that many so-called premium brands still don't have.

From a marketing viewpoint, I do not understand this thinking. Lexus, by association, helps to sell Toyota's. But don't water down the brand values of the top end player and ask it to compete in the same game as the midfield player. That's a sure way of losing the game.

Some points of view to share. For a quiet minute or two.

Rumors claim Lexus is worried the GS and the new LS will overlap

Left Lane, March 2017, by Ronan Glon

Lexus has canceled the development of the next-generation GS, according to a report published in Japan.Enthusiast magazine MAG-X learned the GS has been axed because Lexus officials are worried it will overlap with the new LS flagship that debuted in January at the Detroit Auto Show. The LS is markedly bigger than the GS, but both cars now come standard with a V6 engine. The hot-rodded, V8-powered GS F model represents only a small fraction of sales.

The global decline of the sedan segment is another nail in the GS' coffin. Crossovers and SUVs now dominate the market in the United States and in China, and the GS has never managed to truly compete against the Germans on their home turf. It's difficult for executives to make a sound business case for the development of a brand-new sedan that's not certain to meet its sales targets.

The GS' life has been in jeopardy before. As website Lexus Enthusiast points out, it was almost axed at the end of the previous model's life cycle.

"I didn't want this car. Regional management teams fought me like crazy," revealed Toyota boss Akio Toyoda in an interview with Automotive News during the launch of the current-generation model in 2011.

Like most automakers, Lexus has a policy of not openly commenting on industry rumors. The next GS was tentatively scheduled to debut next year, so we'll have to be patient to find out whether the nameplate will live on.

The Lexus GS Might Soon Be Dead But Will Anyone Miss It?

Jalopnik, March 2017, by TomMcParland

The Lexus GS sedan was always kind of the odd duck in the lineup. It was never as popular as the front-wheel drive Camry-based ES nor was as luxurious as the larger, flagship LS. A recent rumor suggests that the GS sedan may be discontinued. If this is true, I’m not sure people are going to be too upset about it.

A blog post on Lexus Enthusiast cited and translated a Japanese publication called MAG-X who supposedly has an inside scoop within Lexus who revealed that there are currently no plans to continue the GS platform. Lexus Enthusiast is very clear that this is an unsubstantiated rumor, but here is the gist of it:

• “Our scoop department found out that TMC decided to suspend the development of the next generation Lexus GS…But after the close consideration/examination of its image and positioning in the lineup, TMC came to a conclusion that the GS doesn’t/won’t play a desired role in the lineup.”

The source cites several factors as to why the death of the GS is likely. The first of which is the fact that the next generation LS is now downsizing to a V6 motor and this causes a “product overlap” with the V6-powered GS.

The more plausible explanation is the fact that buyers have, for the most part, shifted away from sedans. Crossovers and SUVs are the moneymakers now, and Lexus is cashing in with stuff like the upcoming UX crossover.

Of course, luxury sedans will always have a market providing there are enough customers that want them, and that is currently the biggest problem for the continuation of the GS; no one is really buying them. Ostensibly a BMW 5 Series or Mercedes E-Class competitor, the GS—despite respectable power in GS F form—hasn’t really been that interesting or a segment leader in some time.

According to the automotive sales tracking website GoodCarBadCar.net, Lexus GS sales were down 61 percent in 2016, with fewer than 15,000 units sold. Yet the ES managed to find almost 60,000 customers in the same year despite seeing a 21 percent drop in sales compared to 2015.

Perhaps the reason why the GS never really caught on is because Toyota corporate wanted to cancel the car after the second generation, but kept it because of pressure from Lexus executives. It seems that Toyota didn’t really put much effort into advancing the GS into something that could rival the technology and driving experience similar to the Mercedes E-Class.

It’s not looking good for the future of the GS, and while its demise is still a rumor at this stage, given the market conditions, the fact that we may not see a new model after 2018 isn’t terribly far fetched.

Steve

Some points of view to share. For a quiet minute or two.

Just a reminder: a lot of these "POVs" are based on this site and this forum, thanks to the wonderful insight from industry insider @Carmaker1

Mr1956T

Toyota's are for Toyota buyers, no disrespect allowed = volume sales.
Lexus' are for (should be) for Lexus buyers = premium brand, only appealing to the buyers at the top end of any given market segment.
Why confuse the two?

The GS is a true premium brand car. I've owned my GS250 F Sport (the largest capacity non-hybrid we can get in the UK) for 4 months now. It's a beautiful car, in every respect. For a 2013 car, it's loaded with features that many so-called premium brands still don't have.

From a marketing viewpoint, I do not understand this thinking. Lexus, by association, helps to sell Toyota's. But don't water down the brand values of the top end player and ask it to compete in the same game as the midfield player. That's a sure way of losing the game.

Total agree !

Steve

Some points of view to share. For a quiet minute or two.


Rumors claim Lexus is worried the GS and the new LS will overlap

Left Lane, March 2017, by Ronan Glon

Lexus has canceled the development of the next-generation GS, according to a report published in Japan.Enthusiast magazine MAG-X learned the GS has been axed because Lexus officials are worried it will overlap with the new LS flagship that debuted in January at the Detroit Auto Show. The LS is markedly bigger than the GS, but both cars now come standard with a V6 engine. The hot-rodded, V8-powered GS F model represents only a small fraction of sales.

The global decline of the sedan segment is another nail in the GS' coffin. Crossovers and SUVs now dominate the market in the United States and in China, and the GS has never managed to truly compete against the Germans on their home turf. It's difficult for executives to make a sound business case for the development of a brand-new sedan that's not certain to meet its sales targets.

The GS' life has been in jeopardy before. As website Lexus Enthusiast points out, it was almost axed at the end of the previous model's life cycle.

"I didn't want this car. Regional management teams fought me like crazy," revealed Toyota boss Akio Toyoda in an interview with Automotive News during the launch of the current-generation model in 2011.

Like most automakers, Lexus has a policy of not openly commenting on industry rumors. The next GS was tentatively scheduled to debut next year, so we'll have to be patient to find out whether the nameplate will live on.


The Lexus GS Might Soon Be Dead But Will Anyone Miss It?

Jalopnik, March 2017, by TomMcParland

The Lexus GS sedan was always kind of the odd duck in the lineup. It was never as popular as the front-wheel drive Camry-based ES nor was as luxurious as the larger, flagship LS. A recent rumor suggests that the GS sedan may be discontinued. If this is true, I’m not sure people are going to be too upset about it.

A blog post on Lexus Enthusiast cited and translated a Japanese publication called MAG-X who supposedly has an inside scoop within Lexus who revealed that there are currently no plans to continue the GS platform. Lexus Enthusiast is very clear that this is an unsubstantiated rumor, but here is the gist of it:

• “Our scoop department found out that TMC decided to suspend the development of the next generation Lexus GS…But after the close consideration/examination of its image and positioning in the lineup, TMC came to a conclusion that the GS doesn’t/won’t play a desired role in the lineup.”

The source cites several factors as to why the death of the GS is likely. The first of which is the fact that the next generation LS is now downsizing to a V6 motor and this causes a “product overlap” with the V6-powered GS.

The more plausible explanation is the fact that buyers have, for the most part, shifted away from sedans. Crossovers and SUVs are the moneymakers now, and Lexus is cashing in with stuff like the upcoming UX crossover.

Of course, luxury sedans will always have a market providing there are enough customers that want them, and that is currently the biggest problem for the continuation of the GS; no one is really buying them. Ostensibly a BMW 5 Series or Mercedes E-Class competitor, the GS—despite respectable power in GS F form—hasn’t really been that interesting or a segment leader in some time.

According to the automotive sales tracking website GoodCarBadCar.net, Lexus GS sales were down 61 percent in 2016, with fewer than 15,000 units sold. Yet the ES managed to find almost 60,000 customers in the same year despite seeing a 21 percent drop in sales compared to 2015.

Perhaps the reason why the GS never really caught on is because Toyota corporate wanted to cancel the car after the second generation, but kept it because of pressure from Lexus executives. It seems that Toyota didn’t really put much effort into advancing the GS into something that could rival the technology and driving experience similar to the Mercedes E-Class.

It’s not looking good for the future of the GS, and while its demise is still a rumor at this stage, given the market conditions, the fact that we may not see a new model after 2018 isn’t terribly far fetched.

You compare the GS a five star reliability car (jd power) with a Mercedes e class , this is a joke ?

FYi in the UK the best selling A8 is a I-4 with FWD :)

Steve

Some points of view to share. For a quiet minute or two.


Rumors claim Lexus is worried the GS and the new LS will overlap

Left Lane, March 2017, by Ronan Glon

Lexus has canceled the development of the next-generation GS, according to a report published in Japan.Enthusiast magazine MAG-X learned the GS has been axed because Lexus officials are worried it will overlap with the new LS flagship that debuted in January at the Detroit Auto Show. The LS is markedly bigger than the GS, but both cars now come standard with a V6 engine. The hot-rodded, V8-powered GS F model represents only a small fraction of sales.

The global decline of the sedan segment is another nail in the GS' coffin. Crossovers and SUVs now dominate the market in the United States and in China, and the GS has never managed to truly compete against the Germans on their home turf. It's difficult for executives to make a sound business case for the development of a brand-new sedan that's not certain to meet its sales targets.

The GS' life has been in jeopardy before. As website Lexus Enthusiast points out, it was almost axed at the end of the previous model's life cycle.

"I didn't want this car. Regional management teams fought me like crazy," revealed Toyota boss Akio Toyoda in an interview with Automotive News during the launch of the current-generation model in 2011.

Like most automakers, Lexus has a policy of not openly commenting on industry rumors. The next GS was tentatively scheduled to debut next year, so we'll have to be patient to find out whether the nameplate will live on.


The Lexus GS Might Soon Be Dead But Will Anyone Miss It?

Jalopnik, March 2017, by TomMcParland

The Lexus GS sedan was always kind of the odd duck in the lineup. It was never as popular as the front-wheel drive Camry-based ES nor was as luxurious as the larger, flagship LS. A recent rumor suggests that the GS sedan may be discontinued. If this is true, I’m not sure people are going to be too upset about it.

A blog post on Lexus Enthusiast cited and translated a Japanese publication called MAG-X who supposedly has an inside scoop within Lexus who revealed that there are currently no plans to continue the GS platform. Lexus Enthusiast is very clear that this is an unsubstantiated rumor, but here is the gist of it:

• “Our scoop department found out that TMC decided to suspend the development of the next generation Lexus GS…But after the close consideration/examination of its image and positioning in the lineup, TMC came to a conclusion that the GS doesn’t/won’t play a desired role in the lineup.”

The source cites several factors as to why the death of the GS is likely. The first of which is the fact that the next generation LS is now downsizing to a V6 motor and this causes a “product overlap” with the V6-powered GS.

The more plausible explanation is the fact that buyers have, for the most part, shifted away from sedans. Crossovers and SUVs are the moneymakers now, and Lexus is cashing in with stuff like the upcoming UX crossover.

Of course, luxury sedans will always have a market providing there are enough customers that want them, and that is currently the biggest problem for the continuation of the GS; no one is really buying them. Ostensibly a BMW 5 Series or Mercedes E-Class competitor, the GS—despite respectable power in GS F form—hasn’t really been that interesting or a segment leader in some time.

According to the automotive sales tracking website GoodCarBadCar.net, Lexus GS sales were down 61 percent in 2016, with fewer than 15,000 units sold. Yet the ES managed to find almost 60,000 customers in the same year despite seeing a 21 percent drop in sales compared to 2015.

Perhaps the reason why the GS never really caught on is because Toyota corporate wanted to cancel the car after the second generation, but kept it because of pressure from Lexus executives. It seems that Toyota didn’t really put much effort into advancing the GS into something that could rival the technology and driving experience similar to the Mercedes E-Class.

It’s not looking good for the future of the GS, and while its demise is still a rumor at this stage, given the market conditions, the fact that we may not see a new model after 2018 isn’t terribly far fetched.

I don't think the models will overlap because the LS is longer than the last gen. Pretty much ES buyers walk into the dealers for the ES without looking at anything else, and buyers that want the top model will only look at LS but for those that find the LS expensive or too long would look at the smaller GS. If GS is gone, people will just walk aways and buy from the Germans next door. GS don't sell because it's dated

Yuan

If GS is gone, people will just walk aways and buy from the Germans next door.

Which is fine. The overall point is that even when it was new the GS never sold that well, and you see that echoed in the 5 Series which has historically been eclipsed in sales by both the 3 Series and the 7 Series. If the segment isn't profitable, Lexus isn't hurting themselves by letting the Germans lose money on it instead.

That said, I'm intrigued by the idea of making the IS a little larger to sort of overlap with where the GS was.

AM I CRAZY?!!!
I am considering trading in my LC500 (loaded with Sport performance) for a GS F. (I'll get money back). I love my LC500, but I have longed for the GS to be moved to a superior platform, but this won't happen. I now am musing (on my birthday I will add) that I will be crazy and get a GS F; a car that I will keep forever and can drive my future grandkids around in and can still take on long hauls. I know it seems crazy, but the GS F will be a collectors item eventually and I'm having a bit of a hard time parting with my long time dream of owning a GS F. I already own a 2014 Porsche 911 S, naturally aspirated engine that is an impressive coupe, but can't seem to get the GS F out of my mind. I'm looking at a certified 16 GS F from my dealership. So there you have it. I'd love to hear your comments: crazy or not!!! (well, quite honestly, I know I am car crazy and have spent a load of money on them, so perhaps that's not the right question. I'm already fantasizing about modifying this GS F... LOL!!!

(i am considering getting a LC F eventually when it comes out; then I can trade my 911 in if the LC F seems like a good car to get.... if it approaches a 911 GT3)

Many people are dumping on Lexus for dropping the GS even though literally nobody actually knows whats happening.

What we do know is that Lexus is looking to stop in Europe. What happens in Europe doesn't necessarily happen across the world.

We also know Carmaker1 posted about the 5GS production program and schedule. If there is a chance for us to know before Lexus announces it, it may have to come from him so hopefully we get some updates on this.

And even if Lexus drops the GS for good, it doesn't mean Lexus will never compete in the space again. They could be taking a break to focus elsewhere or be entering a new segment that makes more sense for the changing luxury market.


I doubt that the GS is being axed because of the v6 overap with the 5LS, because they knew they were going to put a v6 TT it he 5LS a long time ago, if thats the case then why even invest money into the GSF?