Video & Photo Gallery: 2018 Lexus LS 500 in Autumn Shimmer

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...histication-with-sleek-style.3568/#post-26881

FYI, A8 discussion is there....

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...histication-with-sleek-style.3568/#post-26881

FYI, A8 discussion is there....

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...histication-with-sleek-style.3568/#post-26881

FYI, A8 discussion is there....

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...histication-with-sleek-style.3568/#post-26881

FYI, A8 discussion is there....

Rhambler

I don't think they can do a single turbo V6 without major changes versus what's in the LS500.

I say this based on the fact that the LS engine, at least from pictures that I've seen, has the turbos placed in traditional locations, near the manifold on each bank.

To replicate this with one turbo would mean ridiculous amounts of piping. The only way to really achieve a single turbo on a dual-banked engine is either with reverse-flow headers, like what is found in almost all German engines, or move the turbo to the front or back of the engine, a major change versus where they are in the LS.

This "hot V" configuration allows them to place one or two turbos above the engine, between the banks. Either a single twin scroll, two single scroll or two twin scrolls all work here. The headers are reversed and the piping is extremely short, eliminating lag, and importantly symmetrical from both manifolds be it one or two turbos, a feat that cannot be easily achieved with the traditional turbo placement low on the engine near the traditional manifold location. Two works there easily, but not one.

The "single turbo between the Vee" configuration is actually only used by Audi, not "all German engines". BMW uses inline-6, and Mercedes uses a traditional bi-turbo (soon to be replaced by inline-6). The problem with this configuration is that it requires a 90 degree bank angle; otherwise the turbo simply won't fit between the banks. A 90 degree V6 is too wide for transverse mounts, which is what a hypothetical "A30A-FTS" engine will end up in most of the time (ES, RX, Avalon, Sienna, Alphard, to name a few). Not to mention this single turbo V6 made by Audi is excessively over-engineered by Toyota's standards. Audi did it so it could expand this engine with other features such as twincharging or electric boost assist (like in Mercedes' latest I6). Also Audi can cut costs since V6s and V8s have a common vee angle and thus shared block production line. Lexus has neither concerns since it already has the more powerful A35A, and the cost of a separate "A30A" isn't a problem since Toyota has huge volume.

If TMC does build this "A30A", it will just be a really simple 3.0L bi-turbo that uses tiny economy turbos that can be found in any family car. Cheap, responsive, compact, get the job done. It will be good for 280-350hp, depending on fuel grade. Anything bigger will just use the A35A.

Rhambler

I don't think they can do a single turbo V6 without major changes versus what's in the LS500.

I say this based on the fact that the LS engine, at least from pictures that I've seen, has the turbos placed in traditional locations, near the manifold on each bank.

To replicate this with one turbo would mean ridiculous amounts of piping. The only way to really achieve a single turbo on a dual-banked engine is either with reverse-flow headers, like what is found in almost all German engines, or move the turbo to the front or back of the engine, a major change versus where they are in the LS.

This "hot V" configuration allows them to place one or two turbos above the engine, between the banks. Either a single twin scroll, two single scroll or two twin scrolls all work here. The headers are reversed and the piping is extremely short, eliminating lag, and importantly symmetrical from both manifolds be it one or two turbos, a feat that cannot be easily achieved with the traditional turbo placement low on the engine near the traditional manifold location. Two works there easily, but not one.

The "single turbo between the Vee" configuration is actually only used by Audi, not "all German engines". BMW uses inline-6, and Mercedes uses a traditional bi-turbo (soon to be replaced by inline-6). The problem with this configuration is that it requires a 90 degree bank angle; otherwise the turbo simply won't fit between the banks. A 90 degree V6 is too wide for transverse mounts, which is what a hypothetical "A30A-FTS" engine will end up in most of the time (ES, RX, Avalon, Sienna, Alphard, to name a few). Not to mention this single turbo V6 made by Audi is excessively over-engineered by Toyota's standards. Audi did it so it could expand this engine with other features such as twincharging or electric boost assist (like in Mercedes' latest I6). Also Audi can cut costs since V6s and V8s have a common vee angle and thus shared block production line. Lexus has neither concerns since it already has the more powerful A35A, and the cost of a separate "A30A" isn't a problem since Toyota has huge volume.

If TMC does build this "A30A", it will just be a really simple 3.0L bi-turbo that uses tiny economy turbos that can be found in any family car. Cheap, responsive, compact, get the job done. It will be good for 280-350hp, depending on fuel grade. Anything bigger will just use the A35A.

Rhambler

I don't think they can do a single turbo V6 without major changes versus what's in the LS500.

I say this based on the fact that the LS engine, at least from pictures that I've seen, has the turbos placed in traditional locations, near the manifold on each bank.

To replicate this with one turbo would mean ridiculous amounts of piping. The only way to really achieve a single turbo on a dual-banked engine is either with reverse-flow headers, like what is found in almost all German engines, or move the turbo to the front or back of the engine, a major change versus where they are in the LS.

This "hot V" configuration allows them to place one or two turbos above the engine, between the banks. Either a single twin scroll, two single scroll or two twin scrolls all work here. The headers are reversed and the piping is extremely short, eliminating lag, and importantly symmetrical from both manifolds be it one or two turbos, a feat that cannot be easily achieved with the traditional turbo placement low on the engine near the traditional manifold location. Two works there easily, but not one.

The "single turbo between the Vee" configuration is actually only used by Audi, not "all German engines". BMW uses inline-6, and Mercedes uses a traditional bi-turbo (soon to be replaced by inline-6). The problem with this configuration is that it requires a 90 degree bank angle; otherwise the turbo simply won't fit between the banks. A 90 degree V6 is too wide for transverse mounts, which is what a hypothetical "A30A-FTS" engine will end up in most of the time (ES, RX, Avalon, Sienna, Alphard, to name a few). Not to mention this single turbo V6 made by Audi is excessively over-engineered by Toyota's standards. Audi did it so it could expand this engine with other features such as twincharging or electric boost assist (like in Mercedes' latest I6). Also Audi can cut costs since V6s and V8s have a common vee angle and thus shared block production line. Lexus has neither concerns since it already has the more powerful A35A, and the cost of a separate "A30A" isn't a problem since Toyota has huge volume.

If TMC does build this "A30A", it will just be a really simple 3.0L bi-turbo that uses tiny economy turbos that can be found in any family car. Cheap, responsive, compact, get the job done. It will be good for 280-350hp, depending on fuel grade. Anything bigger will just use the A35A.

Rhambler

I don't think they can do a single turbo V6 without major changes versus what's in the LS500.

I say this based on the fact that the LS engine, at least from pictures that I've seen, has the turbos placed in traditional locations, near the manifold on each bank.

To replicate this with one turbo would mean ridiculous amounts of piping. The only way to really achieve a single turbo on a dual-banked engine is either with reverse-flow headers, like what is found in almost all German engines, or move the turbo to the front or back of the engine, a major change versus where they are in the LS.

This "hot V" configuration allows them to place one or two turbos above the engine, between the banks. Either a single twin scroll, two single scroll or two twin scrolls all work here. The headers are reversed and the piping is extremely short, eliminating lag, and importantly symmetrical from both manifolds be it one or two turbos, a feat that cannot be easily achieved with the traditional turbo placement low on the engine near the traditional manifold location. Two works there easily, but not one.

The "single turbo between the Vee" configuration is actually only used by Audi, not "all German engines". BMW uses inline-6, and Mercedes uses a traditional bi-turbo (soon to be replaced by inline-6). The problem with this configuration is that it requires a 90 degree bank angle; otherwise the turbo simply won't fit between the banks. A 90 degree V6 is too wide for transverse mounts, which is what a hypothetical "A30A-FTS" engine will end up in most of the time (ES, RX, Avalon, Sienna, Alphard, to name a few). Not to mention this single turbo V6 made by Audi is excessively over-engineered by Toyota's standards. Audi did it so it could expand this engine with other features such as twincharging or electric boost assist (like in Mercedes' latest I6). Also Audi can cut costs since V6s and V8s have a common vee angle and thus shared block production line. Lexus has neither concerns since it already has the more powerful A35A, and the cost of a separate "A30A" isn't a problem since Toyota has huge volume.

If TMC does build this "A30A", it will just be a really simple 3.0L bi-turbo that uses tiny economy turbos that can be found in any family car. Cheap, responsive, compact, get the job done. It will be good for 280-350hp, depending on fuel grade. Anything bigger will just use the A35A.

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

This is just my take on the LS vs. A8 debacle, but I really don't care for the new A8 and I think that if you parked an LS 500 next to one, most people would agree. The Audi formula of ultimate simplicity and restraint is hard to justify on an $85,000+ purchase, IMO. I know the new A8 is packed with great features and technology, but if I am going to spend that much money, I want something that looks and feels - jumps out at you - as being special. I do not get that vibe from the Audi.

I hate saying this because it smacks of "internet fanboy" but the exterior and interior shapes of the A8 are, at first glance, very similar to some lesser VW products in overall design. I know the detailing is entirely different, but the A8 doesn't look wholly different from an A4, or the new Arteon, or much else in VW's stable. The LS 500 is a completely new animal and I don't think it will ever be confused with much else.... furthermore, it looks ~10 years newer than the A8, IMO.













If you want traditional luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want new age luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want slick tech integration, the A8 seems to do a better job.

If you want athletic and sporty, the LS seems to do a better job.

If you want something that's going to make a more unique statement about you as a buyer, the LS does a better job.

Just my .02 but I can't look at the pics above and determine how any person with functioning eyeballs could choose the A8 over the LS based on the interior and/or exterior.

This is just my take on the LS vs. A8 debacle, but I really don't care for the new A8 and I think that if you parked an LS 500 next to one, most people would agree. The Audi formula of ultimate simplicity and restraint is hard to justify on an $85,000+ purchase, IMO. I know the new A8 is packed with great features and technology, but if I am going to spend that much money, I want something that looks and feels - jumps out at you - as being special. I do not get that vibe from the Audi.

I hate saying this because it smacks of "internet fanboy" but the exterior and interior shapes of the A8 are, at first glance, very similar to some lesser VW products in overall design. I know the detailing is entirely different, but the A8 doesn't look wholly different from an A4, or the new Arteon, or much else in VW's stable. The LS 500 is a completely new animal and I don't think it will ever be confused with much else.... furthermore, it looks ~10 years newer than the A8, IMO.













If you want traditional luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want new age luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want slick tech integration, the A8 seems to do a better job.

If you want athletic and sporty, the LS seems to do a better job.

If you want something that's going to make a more unique statement about you as a buyer, the LS does a better job.

Just my .02 but I can't look at the pics above and determine how any person with functioning eyeballs could choose the A8 over the LS based on the interior and/or exterior.

This is just my take on the LS vs. A8 debacle, but I really don't care for the new A8 and I think that if you parked an LS 500 next to one, most people would agree. The Audi formula of ultimate simplicity and restraint is hard to justify on an $85,000+ purchase, IMO. I know the new A8 is packed with great features and technology, but if I am going to spend that much money, I want something that looks and feels - jumps out at you - as being special. I do not get that vibe from the Audi.

I hate saying this because it smacks of "internet fanboy" but the exterior and interior shapes of the A8 are, at first glance, very similar to some lesser VW products in overall design. I know the detailing is entirely different, but the A8 doesn't look wholly different from an A4, or the new Arteon, or much else in VW's stable. The LS 500 is a completely new animal and I don't think it will ever be confused with much else.... furthermore, it looks ~10 years newer than the A8, IMO.













If you want traditional luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want new age luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want slick tech integration, the A8 seems to do a better job.

If you want athletic and sporty, the LS seems to do a better job.

If you want something that's going to make a more unique statement about you as a buyer, the LS does a better job.

Just my .02 but I can't look at the pics above and determine how any person with functioning eyeballs could choose the A8 over the LS based on the interior and/or exterior.

This is just my take on the LS vs. A8 debacle, but I really don't care for the new A8 and I think that if you parked an LS 500 next to one, most people would agree. The Audi formula of ultimate simplicity and restraint is hard to justify on an $85,000+ purchase, IMO. I know the new A8 is packed with great features and technology, but if I am going to spend that much money, I want something that looks and feels - jumps out at you - as being special. I do not get that vibe from the Audi.

I hate saying this because it smacks of "internet fanboy" but the exterior and interior shapes of the A8 are, at first glance, very similar to some lesser VW products in overall design. I know the detailing is entirely different, but the A8 doesn't look wholly different from an A4, or the new Arteon, or much else in VW's stable. The LS 500 is a completely new animal and I don't think it will ever be confused with much else.... furthermore, it looks ~10 years newer than the A8, IMO.













If you want traditional luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want new age luxury, the LS does a better job.

If you want slick tech integration, the A8 seems to do a better job.

If you want athletic and sporty, the LS seems to do a better job.

If you want something that's going to make a more unique statement about you as a buyer, the LS does a better job.

Just my .02 but I can't look at the pics above and determine how any person with functioning eyeballs could choose the A8 over the LS based on the interior and/or exterior.

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

I know this issue has been beaten to death here but I have a feeling that the 3.5L TTV6 is actually going to be quite strong.... probably stronger than any Lexus engine in recent memory, aside from maybe the V10 in the LFA. 2UR-GSE is a great engine but too high revving for this type of application.

Lexus powerplants have been torque deficient for more than a decade, which has resulted in cars that feel slower off the line than their turbocharged competitors. The numbers prove that is true, and I feel like the bar has been set pretty low because of this (for better or worse).

As you note, the 8AR-FTS was a "meh" effort as Lexus' first stab at turbocharging, so I can only hope they learned from their mistakes and are prepared to deliver going forward. Of note, that 2.0T is NOT part of the new Dynamic Force engine family, which the V35A-FTS is the first V6 production. I have hope.

The LS is and always has been Lexus #1 priority, so when they say that the new engine surpasses the existing V8 in terms of NVH, smoothness and power, I will believe it until I'm proven otherwise. The new car is also more than 200lbs lighter than the current one, has 75 more lb-ft of torque and a more sophisticated transmission. I think Lexus claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds is very realistic based on what we know so far.

Toyota has the know-how to build first-rate turbocharged performance engines... they just haven't done it in a while. And speaking of, from what I hear, this engine is headed for the Supra so I don't think they'll be overstating capabilities for an engine that is going into their most iconic performance model.

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

I know this issue has been beaten to death here but I have a feeling that the 3.5L TTV6 is actually going to be quite strong.... probably stronger than any Lexus engine in recent memory, aside from maybe the V10 in the LFA. 2UR-GSE is a great engine but too high revving for this type of application.

Lexus powerplants have been torque deficient for more than a decade, which has resulted in cars that feel slower off the line than their turbocharged competitors. The numbers prove that is true, and I feel like the bar has been set pretty low because of this (for better or worse).

As you note, the 8AR-FTS was a "meh" effort as Lexus' first stab at turbocharging, so I can only hope they learned from their mistakes and are prepared to deliver going forward. Of note, that 2.0T is NOT part of the new Dynamic Force engine family, which the V35A-FTS is the first V6 production. I have hope.

The LS is and always has been Lexus #1 priority, so when they say that the new engine surpasses the existing V8 in terms of NVH, smoothness and power, I will believe it until I'm proven otherwise. The new car is also more than 200lbs lighter than the current one, has 75 more lb-ft of torque and a more sophisticated transmission. I think Lexus claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds is very realistic based on what we know so far.

Toyota has the know-how to build first-rate turbocharged performance engines... they just haven't done it in a while. And speaking of, from what I hear, this engine is headed for the Supra so I don't think they'll be overstating capabilities for an engine that is going into their most iconic performance model.

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

I know this issue has been beaten to death here but I have a feeling that the 3.5L TTV6 is actually going to be quite strong.... probably stronger than any Lexus engine in recent memory, aside from maybe the V10 in the LFA. 2UR-GSE is a great engine but too high revving for this type of application.

Lexus powerplants have been torque deficient for more than a decade, which has resulted in cars that feel slower off the line than their turbocharged competitors. The numbers prove that is true, and I feel like the bar has been set pretty low because of this (for better or worse).

As you note, the 8AR-FTS was a "meh" effort as Lexus' first stab at turbocharging, so I can only hope they learned from their mistakes and are prepared to deliver going forward. Of note, that 2.0T is NOT part of the new Dynamic Force engine family, which the V35A-FTS is the first V6 production. I have hope.

The LS is and always has been Lexus #1 priority, so when they say that the new engine surpasses the existing V8 in terms of NVH, smoothness and power, I will believe it until I'm proven otherwise. The new car is also more than 200lbs lighter than the current one, has 75 more lb-ft of torque and a more sophisticated transmission. I think Lexus claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds is very realistic based on what we know so far.

Toyota has the know-how to build first-rate turbocharged performance engines... they just haven't done it in a while. And speaking of, from what I hear, this engine is headed for the Supra so I don't think they'll be overstating capabilities for an engine that is going into their most iconic performance model.

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise.

I personally believe this V6 will be so overrated by Toyota that it will be kind of slow in real-world, third-party testing.

Toyota just recently did a 100% in house designed engine, a turbo engine that performs very poorly. It's not a dynamic force, but it was just put in use a few years ago and the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It looks good on paper, but performs badly. I think this engine will be the same. It's another reason why Yamaha use to figure so prominently in Toyota engine design imo. Look what happened when they went it alone very recently.

We shall see.

In this day and age, when SUVs are taking center stage, the only thing cars can offer is power, speed and performance.

http://www.carbuzz.com/m/Article.aspx?Id=40026

I know this issue has been beaten to death here but I have a feeling that the 3.5L TTV6 is actually going to be quite strong.... probably stronger than any Lexus engine in recent memory, aside from maybe the V10 in the LFA. 2UR-GSE is a great engine but too high revving for this type of application.

Lexus powerplants have been torque deficient for more than a decade, which has resulted in cars that feel slower off the line than their turbocharged competitors. The numbers prove that is true, and I feel like the bar has been set pretty low because of this (for better or worse).

As you note, the 8AR-FTS was a "meh" effort as Lexus' first stab at turbocharging, so I can only hope they learned from their mistakes and are prepared to deliver going forward. Of note, that 2.0T is NOT part of the new Dynamic Force engine family, which the V35A-FTS is the first V6 production. I have hope.

The LS is and always has been Lexus #1 priority, so when they say that the new engine surpasses the existing V8 in terms of NVH, smoothness and power, I will believe it until I'm proven otherwise. The new car is also more than 200lbs lighter than the current one, has 75 more lb-ft of torque and a more sophisticated transmission. I think Lexus claimed 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds is very realistic based on what we know so far.

Toyota has the know-how to build first-rate turbocharged performance engines... they just haven't done it in a while. And speaking of, from what I hear, this engine is headed for the Supra so I don't think they'll be overstating capabilities for an engine that is going into their most iconic performance model.

Well Lexus is already on record stating this engine will propel this car to 60 in 4.5 seconds.

That's why I linked that Carbuzz article as real world testers always seem to get less than what Toyota says versus other automakers. Like the current LS 460. Toyota says 5.4 seconds. Hogwash. 6 seconds.

I bet we'll see legitimate values above 5 seconds for the new LS.

Well Lexus is already on record stating this engine will propel this car to 60 in 4.5 seconds.

That's why I linked that Carbuzz article as real world testers always seem to get less than what Toyota says versus other automakers. Like the current LS 460. Toyota says 5.4 seconds. Hogwash. 6 seconds.

I bet we'll see legitimate values above 5 seconds for the new LS.

Well Lexus is already on record stating this engine will propel this car to 60 in 4.5 seconds.

That's why I linked that Carbuzz article as real world testers always seem to get less than what Toyota says versus other automakers. Like the current LS 460. Toyota says 5.4 seconds. Hogwash. 6 seconds.

I bet we'll see legitimate values above 5 seconds for the new LS.

Well Lexus is already on record stating this engine will propel this car to 60 in 4.5 seconds.

That's why I linked that Carbuzz article as real world testers always seem to get less than what Toyota says versus other automakers. Like the current LS 460. Toyota says 5.4 seconds. Hogwash. 6 seconds.

I bet we'll see legitimate values above 5 seconds for the new LS.

Rhambler

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

Yes my post was meant to reinforce your point that Lexus won't build a single turbo V6 because it's unnecessarily complex. I wasn't mentioning V8s though, just six cylinder engines. I've not seen a Mercedes with a hot V6 because the current model is 60 degree, and uses a traditional bi-turbo configuration. Maybe point me to some resources?

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise

The engine line-up for 5LS is completely baffling to me. I live in China and a friend of mine who works at a Lexus dealership said he was deeply disappointed by the poor engine choices. It's almost like Lexus has given up on the biggest market for premium and luxury vehicles.

In China we have this ridiculous "displacement tax" that has led to Lexus' downfall in this market, simply because their workhorse 2GR is a 3.5L engine. Under the latest version of the legislation:
The tax rate is 8% for a car with a 2.0L-2.5L engine;
12% for 2.5L-3.0L;
25% for 3.0L-4.0L;
40% for 4.0L+.

All the German competitors are in the 12% bracket, allowing them to undercut Lexus in price by a wide margin. Lexus basically had to axe its two cash cows: the ES350 and the RX350. IS350 and GS350 are gone as well. 2GR is completely replaced by 8AR, which is poorly received since it's a half-assed effort. No V6 no sales, it's just as simple as that.

The engine TMC needs RIGHT NOW is a proper 2GR replacement: a simple and efficient 3.0L bi-turbo V6. The best selling executive sedan in China all use this same recipe: S400L, 740Li, A8L 50TFSI, and Jaguar XF 3.0. The new LS350 is underpowered and in a higher tax bracket than all these competitors. It's basically DOA. And don't forget it's not just about Lexus. The Highlander needs it, the Alphard needs it, the Prado needs it, the Crown needs it. Unless TMC is content with selling just Corollas in China it needs to develop this engine ASAP.

And the LS500 uses the non-sense 3.5L V6 which will be a major disappointment for returning customers who used to have the wonderful 4.6L V8. Why give up V8 when the new "downsized" V6 is actually in the same exact tax bracket which nullifies the benefit of downsizing? Again the LS500 will be underpowered competing against Germans with V8s.

Rhambler

Actually almost all modern German V8 tts are "hot Vs."

BMW 4.4 V8 tt is a hot V
Mercedes 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Porsche 4.0 V8 tt is a hot V
Likewise for Audi

The point I was making is that Lexus CANNOT easily make single turbo V8 or V6 (as someone mentioned) because Lexus places the turbos in traditional locations, on the periphery of the engine. It just won't work. You can do this in a hot V.

I know there is no V in a straight six. German V6s are hots Vs too, at least those that make Vs

Yes my post was meant to reinforce your point that Lexus won't build a single turbo V6 because it's unnecessarily complex. I wasn't mentioning V8s though, just six cylinder engines. I've not seen a Mercedes with a hot V6 because the current model is 60 degree, and uses a traditional bi-turbo configuration. Maybe point me to some resources?

Rhambler

The LS 500 is just missing a decent engine. One that pushes out 450-500 HP in a non-F guise

The engine line-up for 5LS is completely baffling to me. I live in China and a friend of mine who works at a Lexus dealership said he was deeply disappointed by the poor engine choices. It's almost like Lexus has given up on the biggest market for premium and luxury vehicles.

In China we have this ridiculous "displacement tax" that has led to Lexus' downfall in this market, simply because their workhorse 2GR is a 3.5L engine. Under the latest version of the legislation:
The tax rate is 8% for a car with a 2.0L-2.5L engine;
12% for 2.5L-3.0L;
25% for 3.0L-4.0L;
40% for 4.0L+.

All the German competitors are in the 12% bracket, allowing them to undercut Lexus in price by a wide margin. Lexus basically had to axe its two cash cows: the ES350 and the RX350. IS350 and GS350 are gone as well. 2GR is completely replaced by 8AR, which is poorly received since it's a half-assed effort. No V6 no sales, it's just as simple as that.

The engine TMC needs RIGHT NOW is a proper 2GR replacement: a simple and efficient 3.0L bi-turbo V6. The best selling executive sedan in China all use this same recipe: S400L, 740Li, A8L 50TFSI, and Jaguar XF 3.0. The new LS350 is underpowered and in a higher tax bracket than all these competitors. It's basically DOA. And don't forget it's not just about Lexus. The Highlander needs it, the Alphard needs it, the Prado needs it, the Crown needs it. Unless TMC is content with selling just Corollas in China it needs to develop this engine ASAP.

And the LS500 uses the non-sense 3.5L V6 which will be a major disappointment for returning customers who used to have the wonderful 4.6L V8. Why give up V8 when the new "downsized" V6 is actually in the same exact tax bracket which nullifies the benefit of downsizing? Again the LS500 will be underpowered competing against Germans with V8s.