Lexus GS F Thoughts on GSF

[PTien]

With the new GSF on the horizon, this marks the 2nd F model in the Lexus line-up.

On paper the GSF doesn't look good vs its competitors, E63, M5, RS7.

Typically, with performance models, whether it be AMG, M or RS, are not there to be volume sellers but more emotional brand builder, but does the GSF help the Lexus brand or hurt it by being so under powered vs its competitors?

I'm not sure, any thoughts?

I would have loved to see a modified V10 from the LFA in the GSF. That would have been really special.

 

[mikeavelli]

With the new GSF on the horizon, this marks the 2nd F model in the Lexus line-up.

On paper the GSF doesn't look good vs its competitors, E63, M5, RS7.

Typically, with performance models, whether it be AMG, M or RS, are not there to be volume sellers but more emotional brand builder, but does the GSF help the Lexus brand or hurt it by being so under powered vs its competitors?

I'm not sure, any thoughts?

I would have loved to see a modified V10 from the LFA in the GSF. That would have been really special.

I am 99% certain this replaces my LS F-Sport...I will miss the space and I just love how the LS looks but the GS is a great logical step for me as I do want more power. I agree that it should have more power, I am unsure why they couldn't bump it up to 500hp, that is 31hp more which is not even a 10% lift. On paper it would have looked much better vs these forced induction Germans. Lexus is in transition between engines so the next GS F surely will top 500hp easy....I don't mind it being down on power....

Alas though its a solid first step and I'll be honest, 469hp is more than enough around town and with a linear power band should be quite fun at the track with TVD. The interior is still my favorite in class and seeing it with carbon fiber makes me melt. I know the GS F will actually work, its easy to see some horror stories with issues with some of the other cars.

FYI the V-10 in the LFA supposedly costs 80k itself which should be around the base price of the GS F!

 

[CIF]

Yeah I agree with Lexfather. I mean the LFA V10 is a DREAM engine, but it is also an extremely expensive engine. No way could they have made a modified version for the GS F.

I say we should all have patience for the next-gen engines that Lexus will get in due time.

Also I personally prefer a linear powerband over a turbo one. However I don't mind extremely well-implemented turbo engines, but those are very rare.

 

[PTien]

I am 99% certain this replaces my LS F-Sport...I will miss the space and I just love how the LS looks but the GS is a great logical step for me as I do want more power. I agree that it should have more power, I am unsure why they couldn't bump it up to 500hp, that is 31hp more which is not even a 10% lift. On paper it would have looked much better vs these forced induction Germans. Lexus is in transition between engines so the next GS F surely will top 500hp easy....I don't mind it being down on power....

Alas though its a solid first step and I'll be honest, 469hp is more than enough around town and with a linear power band should be quite fun at the track with TVD. The interior is still my favorite in class and seeing it with carbon fiber makes me melt. I know the GS F will actually work, its easy to see some horror stories with issues with some of the other cars.

FYI the V-10 in the LFA supposedly costs 80k itself which should be around the base price of the GS F!

I totally agree that the LFA engine is probably just a dream but my worry would be that the GSF is a total failure and they never make another one with a new engine. I think it also does damage to the F Brand that will be difficult to come back from, even with a new competitive engine.

 

[CIF]

I think we should not jump to conclusions until we see reviews of it, as well as the price. I feel confident for example that it will be priced well below M5 and E63 levels.

 

[PTien]

I think we should not jump to conclusions until we see reviews of it, as well as the price. I feel confident for example that it will be priced well below M5 and E63 levels.

I agree it has to be priced lower than the M5 and E63 but even at a lower price point, the press and customers will naturally compare the car to the M5, E63 and RS7. Let's hope the reviews are positive.

 

[CIF]

I agree it has to be priced lower than the M5 and E63 but even at a lower price point, the press and customers will naturally compare the car to the M5, E63 and RS7. Let's hope the reviews are positive.

To me, as long as it delivers the characteristics that Lexus owners would expect from a high-performance Lexus F model, then I'll be content. The RC F roughly matches the M4 in track times, and it exceeds the M4 in virtually all other road conditions outside of the track. Let's not get started about the other usual Lexus characteristics the RC F has, like rock solid reliability and and a quality interior.

While the paper specs are disappointing, I am confident the GS F will deliver out in the real world.

 

[Demetrius]

The CTS-V just announced an 84k starting price. Helluva bargain with the hp/cost ratio. About 10k less than the M5(16k for the competition pack) and 18k less than the E63.

If the GS-F comes in at 80k, how would that go over in many consumers head? 180 less hp for 4k less?
I'm sure a 70-75k starting price would be a lot easier to swallow, and more realistic IMO.

 

[PTien]

The CTS-V just announced an 84k starting price. Helluva bargain with the hp/cost ratio. About 10k less than the M5(16k for the competition pack) and 18k less than the E63.

If the GS-F comes in at 80k, how would that go over in many consumers head? 180 less hp for 4k less?
I'm sure a 70-75k starting price would be a lot easier to swallow, and more realistic IMO.

One thing that CTS-V is doing is providing more hp than the competitors at a much lower price.
If goal of the GSF is to just sell to loyal Lexus customers, then I think they nailed it but I don't think that's the purpose for any Performance Halo vehicle; sedan, coupe, supercar or otherwise.

If in fact the goal is to use the GSF as a halo for the Brand, both Lexus and the F brand, then its important to understand the buyer. Just making an educated guess here the buyer would be, very affluent and at the very least performance oriented, but would probably never go to a track.

Let's face it HP sells cars, not lap times around Laguna Seca.
I love the RCF and I think the GSF looks great. The RCF has very comparable HP (less torque) than the competitors but the GSF (on paper) seems to be completely out classed. I just think the GSF is a missed opportunity. I guess only time will tell.

 

[mikeavelli]

The RC F starts at 62k, most are 70k and with the Performance pack we are looking at 80k. Since the GS F will not have a performance pack (well we are not aware of one) it could potentially start at 70k and hit 80k loaded. The CTS-V has an aggressive price compared to the Germans but itself has jumped 20k, the last gen started at 64k. That is a huge leap. Cadillac also has the convienence of that amazing Vette engine they can source. I agree it looks really bad for the GS-F to be down nearly 200hp

The thing is the move up for the CTS has not been very successful, sales are down and GM had to drop the price and there are substantial rebates on the car. Mind you a CTS V-Sport has 420hp, over 100more than the GS F-Sport but its priced around 70k which seems to challenge people, even with more power.

There is just no way for me to get around the fact that Lexus should have bumped the GS power to 500hp, we are talking 33hp more. It would have been more respectable on paper.

 

[Demetrius]

The RC F starts at 62k, most are 70k and with the Performance pack we are looking at 80k. Since the GS F will not have a performance pack (well we are not aware of one) it could potentially start at 70k and hit 80k loaded. The CTS-V has an aggressive price compared to the Germans but itself has jumped 20k, the last gen started at 64k. That is a huge leap. Cadillac also has the convienence of that amazing Vette engine they can source. I agree it looks really bad for the GS-F to be down nearly 200hp

The thing is the move up for the CTS has not been very successful, sales are down and GM had to drop the price and there are substantial rebates on the car. Mind you a CTS V-Sport has 420hp, over 100more than the GS F-Sport but its priced around 70k which seems to challenge people, even with more power.

There is just no way for me to get around the fact that Lexus should have bumped the GS power to 500hp, we are talking 33hp more. It would have been more respectable on paper.

Very good points you bring up there Mike. I agree with all of them.
The last gen CTS had an interesting role in that it played as a 5 series/E class competitor, but was also an entry level sedan for Cadillac. Now that it's moved up truly in both size and price, it seems consumers aren't really going for it.
I mention this because in the performance realm, the GS will now be playing the tweener role between the 550is and M5s of the world. I'm curious as to how it'll be received critically. The sales won't really matter, unless it just falls flat on its face.

I'm with you on the hp letdown in the GS. 500 would've been such a nice number and good marketing fodder.

 

[CIF]

Here's a rhetorical question; do you think during the GS F's life cycle, they will upgrade the engine? Do you think that simply the next-gen engines aren't ready yet? Is there some legitimate reason Lexus couldn't up the power of the RC F's V8 for the GS F? Just some questions to ponder.

 

[mikeavelli]

Here's a rhetorical question; do you think during the GS F's life cycle, they will upgrade the engine? Do you think that simply the next-gen engines aren't ready yet? Is there some legitimate reason Lexus couldn't up the power of the RC F's V8 for the GS F? Just some questions to ponder.

I don't think so...I think this 5.0 might be the last of N/A engines for sometime....I assume Lexus will debut their new engines top down, LS/LC first and go from there....

We are finding with the Apexi exhaust, it adds 30-35hp to the RC F...so boom, you now have a 500hp Lexus ...that is how restrictive the exhaust is...

 

[mikeavelli]

And I honestly think of this car everyday and I can't wait for it.....

 

[CIF]

I don't think so...I think this 5.0 might be the last of N/A engines for sometime....I assume Lexus will debut their new engines top down, LS/LC first and go from there....

We are finding with the Apexi exhaust, it adds 30-35hp to the RC F...so boom, you now have a 500hp Lexus ...that is how restrictive the exhaust is...

Great thoughts, thanks!

Wow that's a great piece of info, didn't know that about the exhaust. That's something VERY interesting to know for RC F owners or potential owners then. Do you think Lexus will improve the exhaust over the life cycle of this generation?

 

[Joe]

Also interesting to point out is the standard Torque Vectoring Differential and the weight advantage (100 - 150 kgs lighter than competitors). The top pic of the car won't be the 'academic run' from 0 to 60, but - like the RC F - the day-to-day easy sporty drive.

 

[mikeavelli]

Also interesting to point out is the standard Torque Vectoring Differential and the weight advantage (100 - 150 kgs lighter than competitors). The top pic of the car won't be the 'academic run' from 0 to 60, but - like the RC F - the day-to-day easy sporty drive.

I'm unsure of any other sedan with a true TVD setup. Lexus system does not use brakes like most other systems. That is a huge advantage.

 

[PTien]

I'm unsure of any other sedan with a true TVD setup. Lexus system does not use brakes like most other systems. That is a huge advantage.

Audi's Sport Differential with quattro has a true torque vectoring differential in the rear axle and a self locking center differential (torsen type) to distribute power from front to back. The front axel has an open differential with Electronic Differential Lock and uses brake torque vectoring.

So combinations of everything.....

 

[mikeavelli]

Audi's Sport Differential with quattro has a true torque vectoring differential in the rear axle and a self locking center differential (torsen type) to distribute power from front to back. The front axel has an open differential with Electronic Differential Lock and uses brake torque vectoring.

So combinations of everything.....

Thanks...I guess that RWD is the GS F forte...also the GS F doesn't use brakes with its TVD. Obviously Audi's system speaks for itself!

 

[juvi22003]

I'll make it short overpriced and needs more power, i'll take a M5 or C63 over the GSF