internalaudit

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This is a more complicated matter than it appears to be. The "range" issue is so subjective and manipulatable.
I also read on TMC forum that many Tesla owners not too happy after OTA updates that help protect battery lives, lowering driving ranges and charging speeds.

Anyway, Ssun is definitely not impressed with Toyota/Lexus BEVs but time will likely prove that the batteries in them will likely last a long, long time and will probably have much fewer software issues that plague other BEVs.
 

Will1991

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Gentlemen, I’ve erased a couple of posts.

It’s perfectly fine to not agree with everything we read here in the forum, it’s not ok to turn it into a personal issue.
 

mikeavelli

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Yes the RZ range is on the lower end. We also know some of the competition is advertising range that they don’t get in the real world. I’m in many of these EV groups and the amount of issues they have is wild for a new car. Kia and Hyundai are really bad. The new Chevy Blazer just got destroyed by CR, not a good sign for the Honda and Acura twins.

Sometimes a first Toyota or Lexus product doesn’t quite nail it but the second generation does. I assume that’s what we will see with the RZ.

To me, if you don’t drive a ton or are a Lexus loyalist, it’s an attractive vehicle. Especially with the incentives today.
 

internalaudit

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Good to know Mike that many other EV makes have boatloads of issues. I've only read taycanforums and teslamotorclub forum issues in the past and now reading a little bit more on BMW PHEVs and BEVs.

I'm also in the same camp thinking Toyota wants to get its EV software right and was playing very conservative. Software makes or breaks an EV more so than ICEVs or HEVs and with Toyota's reputation for reliability, it wouldn't risk trying to match competitors' driving ranges, fast charging speed, and flogging the battery (efficiency not as high) as all these contribute to faster battery degradation.

I just wish many of these manufacturers walk the talk (about consumers not having to worry about battery longevity) and extend battery warranty to 15 years, at 70% retention capacity, in line with what CARB was initially proposing. Then Toyota/Lexus strategy will clearly pay off.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Software makes or breaks an EV more so than ICEVs or HEVs
As VinFast discovered.

I just wish many of these manufacturers walk the talk (about consumers not having to worry about battery longevity) and extend battery warranty to 15 years, at 70% retention capacity, in line with what CARB was initially proposing. Then Toyota/Lexus strategy will clearly pay off.
I don't know if those targets are feasible with current battery technology, but they should do it if it is. Teslas and Nissan Leafs with dead battery packs are starting to pile up because people can't afford $20k for a new pack, and that's further depressing whatever was left of the resale value.
 

internalaudit

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As VinFast discovered.


I don't know if those targets are feasible with current battery technology, but they should do it if it is. Teslas and Nissan Leafs with dead battery packs are starting to pile up because people can't afford $20k for a new pack, and that's further depressing whatever was left of the resale value.
Likely with LFP batteries. Maybe with solid state types for Toyota/Lexus from 2027 and beyond.

But I'm still thinking with all the battery baby-sitting on Toyota/Lexus BEVs, these cars will do just fine. I think in the EU, battery warranty for Toyota/Lexus is 10 years long now.

Toyota doesn't want to rock the boat for the time being it seems.
 

CRSKTN

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Car makers should be buying up cars with dead batteries for refurbishment once energy density and chemistry improves, and the original range can be recreated with cheaper packs that don't cost $20k.
 

internalaudit

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Car makers should be buying up cars with dead batteries for refurbishment once energy density and chemistry improves, and the original range can be recreated with cheaper packs that don't cost $20k.
Lack of refurbishment support at reasonable cost is really what's most concerning to me, especially with the current eight year battery warranty (I think it's 10 from Toyota in the EU). Until battery and automakers walk the talk and not just sweep under the rug valid consumer concern for battery longevity, many will stay on the sidelines.

From a very helpful post in i4TALK:

California is not starting battery longevity requirements for ZEVs until model year 2026. For model year 2026 through 2029, a battery has to maintain 70% rated range for 10 years or 150k miles. This is raised to 80% range in the 2030 model year. For 2026 to 2030, individual battery packs have to keep 70% of energy capacity for eight years or 100k miles. This is raised to 75% in model year 2031. A "a consumer-facing battery state of health indicator" will also be required so drivers know health of the battery.


Anyway, it's going to be interesting times for model year 2026 and beyond when ACC II in CARB states take effect.
 

ssun30

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Disposals of electric vehicles could be very expensive since you can't let tons of hazmat sitting in a junkyard under the sun. Refurbishment should be mandated otherwise the leakage of toxic waste will have severe environment consequences.

What I like about Toyota's EV strategy is they are not doing cell-to-chassis packaging for the sake of weight reduction. They are clearly concerned about reusability at the end of the vehicle's life.
 

Levi

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If BEVs are so re
Since we are on the topic of EVs, it's looking like we are going to proceed with the Macan 4 because of higher starting price ($15,000 CAD more than we expected), lack of PTV Plus as an option, and also because VAG and many others haven't probably sorted out BMS software / technology. Definitely don't mind buying used and gambling on the battery (but will get it inspected) but my wife and I aren't ballers. Will see what Lexus BEVs will have to offer in the coming years.
Since you mentioned the Macan, IMO it is a massive disappointment, looks “old”, oddly shaped, bulbous and low to the ground, so not SUV, yet tall, heavier than a Cayenne Turbo. It has not other than the Porsche badge, and consequently the high price.
 

internalaudit

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If BEVs are so re

Since you mentioned the Macan, IMO it is a massive disappointment, looks “old”, oddly shaped, bulbous and low to the ground, so not SUV, yet tall, heavier than a Cayenne Turbo. It has not other than the Porsche badge, and consequently the high price.
To me, I like the exterior enough (nothing offensive like the newer BMW beavertooth grills) and the interior (nothing like Mercedes' space age vents and odd dual display setup with bare dashboard that is so off-putting to me -- just like in the mach E, GV60, Polestars, etc. but the 3 and Y takes the cake because of the single central display lol) looks quite good.

Yeah, I noticed the Macan ICEV maybe just three to four cm higher than my CT200h.

BEVs will really be heavier and the magic on the Macan would be with the rear axle steering, double wishbone suspension and torque vectoring, as I was hoping.

What turned us off is $15,000 more than we expected for the base price, no PTV Plus offered on the base Macan 4. Also, I would have preferred steel suspension as the service life of the air suspension could be as short as five or six years and cost $$ to replace. Sure it will handle great but I wanted torque vectoring for stability/traction when traversing dissimilar road surface in inclement weather. I mean most of the roads we travel here in Ontario, Canada are kinda straight, unlike coastal roads we've been on in Italy and Europe.

A base 2024 ICEV Macan with ideal options (fewer to select from as there's no massage seating and other new offerings) will only be $80,000 CAD, so about $41,000 CAD less than the Macan 4 I optioned after removing the $2,800 HUD option. Options were $9,000 for the ICEV and about $11,000 for the EV so wasn't too bad. I did some quick research and told my wife to wait for details on the upcoming X3 PHEV which will probably start around $68,000 CAD, with brake-based torque vectoring package, may be around $72 or 73K, still a way off from the Macan 4 EV.

After we learned about the price, my wife says its too high and she would rather go for a PHEV so as not to worry about having to charge when driving longer distance. She also became a full-time remote employee a few weeks back so it's not too pressing for us to go with a BEV anymore, a PHEV will do just fine.

Also, the software makes or breaks a great EV and between VAG and BMW, maybe BMW has the better and more reliable software.

I don't think she wants any of the current Lexus PHEVs (FWD biased) lol and I don't blame her haha. But I think in a few years, there will be wonderful Lexus BEVs and PHEVs to choose from and that will last two decades easily.
 

CRSKTN

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The only thing i can think of is them finding some way to jam in whatever new performance tech they created for the hybrid TTV8.

It better not be visual only.
 

Will1991

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I'm betting on the LF-Z specs:

"
The new LF-Z Electrified concept incorporates driving performance, styling and technologies that Lexus plans to realise by 2025
(...)

LF-Z ELECTRIFIEDTECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

  • Overall length (mm) 4,880
  • Overall width (mm) 1,960
  • Overall height (mm) 1,600
  • Wheelbase (mm) 2,950
  • Kerb weight (kg) 2,100
  • EV driving range – WLTP (km) 600
  • Battery type Lithium-ion
  • Battery capacity (kWh) 90
  • Charging power (kW) 150
  • Cooling method Liquid
  • Acceleration 0-100 km/h (sec) 3.0
  • Max. speed (km/h) 200
  • Max. output (kW) 400
  • Max. torque (Nm) 700
"

Source:

I still think we're going to see those specs for the facelift or this RZ F moniker.
 

qtb007

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I sat in an RZ over the weekend at a local auto show. I was pretty impressed, TBH. It felt very airy inside and build quality was really good. Hard to justify that much money on a BEV, IMO, but its a nice car and I'd certainly prefer one over an RX.
 

internalaudit

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I prefer sedans/hatchbacks over SUVs but if I had to purchase a used BEV before 2027/28 (when Toyota promises solid state batteries), I will probably go for a RZ over anything else.

Not because I like the way it looks in front but because I know these BEVs will likely easily last 20 years, including the battery pack and have excellent reliability overall.