Dreski

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https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/2018-bmw-5-series.2783/#post-27900

New M5... 600hp, AWD but they do give the drive the option to totally disconnect the front axle for RWD....
Just insane. Everyone gets hung up on power numbers but the weight reduction to this super sedan is going to be unbeatable. AMG and VW RS will make theirs 650hp with 590ftlb torq. Still won't cut it. M-5er is going to sit on the iron throne and will rule the 7 kingdoms.

I have zero faith that Lexus will deliver a proper GS F. This specific model/segment is already filled by the F10 (bmw, In my house). I switched a while ago after selling the GS. Don't think i will be looking back at all. GS has no future it seems. Even if they go full throttle development (d0ubt it) what can it offer against the King, M5? I cannot wait to buy this car. Still very much a Lexus fanboy and happy to commit to another Lexus model. IS F pls!
 
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maiaramdan

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Finally a good news regarding my car
I really love the GS and I got 3 different generations from it
If it turns out to be a real 4 doors coupe it will be amazing, even I am afraid that he may want to say that it will turn out to compete with BMW 6 GT not BMW 6 GC, which making me worry as i recall in early days of this year one executive said that they want a station wagon
 

joepac

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So, i actually thought about this yesterday - believe it or not - and I was thinking that the GS would be a perfect 4-door coupe. I always wanted the GS to stay as is, and Lexus could make the ES the 4-door coupe. But the ES is too "bread and butter" for it to become a more expensive vehicle. The reason why I thought the ES would fit it better is because it already has that almost lift back shape and almost a smaller version of the LS, but as I just said, it's too "bread and butter." Nothing wrong with that, of course.
The GS has such a big history that seeing it go will disappoint many Lexus and car enthusiasts, so I could see Lexus keeping the GS name and transforming it into something else. Lexus's top competitors, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW, all have a 4-door coupes (A7, CLS, 6 Series Gran Coupe, respectively), and so I think Lexus would succeed having one too.
Anyways, it's nice to know the GS now has a good chance of staying alive, but if it does become the 4-door coupe, Lexus needs to understand that it may not sell as well as it used to. And here's to the ES becoming a sports sedan! Cheers!
The 4gs did not sell that well in the first place which was why all the rumors started of its demise. And the ES in FWD cannot be a "sports sedan"

3GS was the best looking but worst driving, IMO. 4GS has been decent looking but the best driving. 2GS is a classic, and my favorite Lexus of all time.

Overall, excited with this news but Lexus should have been planning this strategy shift for the last 3-4 years, preparing to drop something into market around 2020.
I miss my 2gs (1998 GS400) too :(
 
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DDas

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The 4gs did not sell that well in the first place which was why all the rumors started of its demise. And the ES in FWD cannot be a "sports sedan"
4GS sold decently - not great, yes - but not "not that well." Also, the ES is FWD, but if you actually read the article posted earlier about the next generation ES, it's changing to fit the GS's role.
 

joepac

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4GS sold decently - not great, yes - but not "not that well." Also, the ES is FWD, but if you actually read the article posted earlier about the next generation ES, it's changing to fit the GS's role.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/lexus/lexus-gs/

2017 was abysmal. 2014 to 2016 were not that great (not that well?) lol

Compare to one of its competitors the BMW 5 series

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-5-series/

Outsold the GS by 2-3x as much units sold. And continues to sell strong.

I mean it doesn't mean much to us Lexus folk but Lexus is a business and it can't waste money in R&D on a new chassis, powertrain etc. just to sell 1300 units per month and remain profitable.

The ES is still going to be FWD. Look at that profile pic in the article about the ES in camo. The front overhang and the back of the front fender give it away. They will not make the ES a RWD car... Maybe pull an Acura/Audi and make it FWD based AWD but still with a horizontally opposed engine and FWD dimensions-No thanks.

I hope the GS does become more like a A7, 6 Series level car but the ES based GS (if that really happens) may sell well among the AARP crowd but it will be no enthusiast car. The IS and GS are what Lexus has left for sports sedans. Hopefully the new Dynamic Force engines and new designs by 2019/2020 will truly put them on top beyond reliability and practicality.
 
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krew

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The ES is still going to be FWD. Look at that profile pic in the article about the ES in camo. The front overhang and the back of the front fender give it away. They will not make the ES a RWD car... Maybe pull an Acura/Audi and make it FWD based AWD but still with a horizontally opposed engine and FWD dimensions-No thanks.
I honestly think the toughest crowd to convince regarding the ES will be Lexus enthusiasts. I'm of the opinion that a full-time AWD system would transform the ES, but I have to wonder if it's enough to replace the GS.

Interesting times, to be sure.
 

joepac

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I honestly think the toughest crowd to convince regarding the ES will be Lexus enthusiasts. I'm of the opinion that a full-time AWD system would transform the ES, but I have to wonder if it's enough to replace the GS.

Interesting times, to be sure.
Agreed. I just wish Lexus will one day cast aside its conservatism and go for it like the IS-F and LFA. They need to at least be competitive in the performance category or will always carry the "Old Granny Car" or "Overpriced Toyota" stigma.

I've driven the new ES as a loaner when I got the 60K service on my IS. It really drives like your on ambien. I would rather drive my Prius LOL. I also had the opportunity to drive the NX 200t which was much more lively and felt more sporty than the ES.
 
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I have been driving my dad's new ES Hybrid a lot more....for the enthusiast driver in me it does nothing, but is fine for its intended purpose in being a luxury hybrid. My dad is at the retirement age (He just hasn't stopped working), so he decided to splurge on an ESh instead of the Camry Hybrid (I even told him to consider the Sonata Hybrid).

Anyway, the GS has to better appeal to the 5 Series/E Class demographic. Honestly, if you look at numbers, it has been hard for the GS to break through the glass that Ze Germans have in place; I even think Audi has surpassed Lexus in some luxury buyers' minds. The Germans made a lot of luxury buyers in the US biased against anything that wasn't German/European.

My dad bought his ES with a huge discount, and there's no way the other Lexus cars would continue to sell without incentives too at this time.
 

IS-SV

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A stylish GS 4 door coupe / a better CLS would be a nice (and brave) move for Lexus. Do it please.

I've driven the new ES as a loaner when I got the 60K service on my IS. It really drives like your on ambien. I would rather drive my Prius LOL. I also had the opportunity to drive the NX 200t which was much more lively and felt more sporty than the ES.
100% agree (except part about Prius) lol. And I'm a gray haired guy, not young.
 
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krew

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The GS going 4door coupe was necessary around the time the 4GS was released in 2012 so it is a very welcome change if this is true even though they would be 6-7 years late.
I have to figure the 4GS was Lexus' attempt to go head-to-head with the 5-series and E-Class, and it failed. Lexus realized their best hope in midsize was the ES, and moving the GS into CLS/A7 territory is about the only thing that can save the model.

I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.

Edited for clarity.
 
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CIF

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The 4GS is a great car for many reasons. Sadly, I feel that personally they messed up the mid-cycle refresh styling-wise. Even so, pre-refresh it sold ok but not in big numbers. I also feel Toyota never put enough effort at the dealer level to push the GS over the ES. The ES basically sells itself. Toyota has a unique situation with the ES and GS, so that's why I feel for it to sell well, regardless of how the model looks or is engineered, heavy pressure and effort by Toyota must be placed upon dealers to specifically push the GS.
 
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I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.
Was the grill holding the car back from more appeal in the marketplace? When the pictures of the car was released, you just couldn't get away from seeing this on any forum thread:
 
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i don't understand why people care so much about the ES becoming the sports sedan of the segment now, look at how much the new camry evolved, 'ES' is just a nameplate, yes it has been the boring granny car for years but look how the RX has transformed for its 4th generation. it seems clear that the ES will be taking the GS's usual 4 door sedan role by looking at the spy shots alongside the Audi A6 & Mercedes E Class, the GS's competitors now. what is going to suck is that if the ES does not have the F-Sport option or the TTV6 for the ES350 with power, lexus will not be able to keep the loyal GS buyers and possibly move the people with german cars over. i also believe they should make a 4 door coupe version of the RC with the power from the TTV6 and maybe an F version, but hey that's just my opinion
 

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http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/lexus/lexus-gs/

2017 was abysmal. 2014 to 2016 were not that great (not that well?) lol

Compare to one of its competitors the BMW 5 series

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-5-series/

Outsold the GS by 2-3x as much units sold. And continues to sell strong.

I mean it doesn't mean much to us Lexus folk but Lexus is a business and it can't waste money in R&D on a new chassis, powertrain etc. just to sell 1300 units per month and remain profitable.

The ES is still going to be FWD. Look at that profile pic in the article about the ES in camo. The front overhang and the back of the front fender give it away. They will not make the ES a RWD car... Maybe pull an Acura/Audi and make it FWD based AWD but still with a horizontally opposed engine and FWD dimensions-No thanks.

I hope the GS does become more like a A7, 6 Series level car but the ES based GS (if that really happens) may sell well among the AARP crowd but it will be no enthusiast car. The IS and GS are what Lexus has left for sports sedans. Hopefully the new Dynamic Force engines and new designs by 2019/2020 will truly put them on top beyond reliability and practicality.
What confuses me is the GS did meet sales goals here and according to Lexus is the best selling worldwide. I guess that still wasn't enough.
 

mikeavelli

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Wanted to start this post for a separate thought. Now the IS/ES strategy has been very successful. It allowed Lexus to fully make the IS sporty and the ES lean strongly toward a totally different market more concerned with comfort.

By getting rid of this, the IS might have to move more to the middle to appease everyone and then the ES moves more to the middle to appease everyone.
 

maiaramdan

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Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
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*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
 

mikeavelli

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Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
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Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The thing for me is, if this is the route the ES takes, they need much more than just a 300h and 350. Yes the base A6 is a FWD, CVT equipped, 4 cylinder car. Well they offer the amazing S6 and overseas the RS6. That provides a big halo for those base cars.

The new E class has tons of different engine choices with the madman E63 S launched.

BMW just launched the M5 which looks amazing on paper. Even without going that far, the M550 is a 0-60 in UNDER 4 SECONDS car!

Will Lexus upgrade the F-Sport program to finally add more power and not just cosmetic, handling changes? Or more of the same?
 

bogglo

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Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The ES was not testing with the BMW 5. so I still have faith The GS would still compete in the same category it is now.

The Camry was really updated with the new 2018 model. So, we can only expect the Avalon to take it up a notch. If you were to distance Lexus(ES) from Toyota(Avalon, Camry) what car would you benchmark?

Note:
the Audi and Merc that was spotted in that picture are the entry level model.
 

maiaramdan

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I don't know
Also will they kill the GX or leave it body on frame or reinvent it as RWD sport SUV aka Cayenne so as the LX to be the body on frame flagship, the GX the unibody RWD flagship and the RX as the mid???

also as I told before thois guy from lexus ausie didn't say to us what body type the GS will be, it may turn as the crazy back 6 GT not the 4 doors coupe 6 GC we always want
 
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