Lexus UX (UX 200, UX 250h, 300e) Megathread

Levi

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to know li-ion hold, look at the most largest scale real world test: electronic devices, namely smartphones. battery is unusable after three years and should be replaced, just in time that new OS is not updated/supported.
 

NXracer

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The fact they switch to Interface so quickly during a global chip shortage shows their strong supply chain control. Many manufacturers are cutting back features like touch screen, USB ports, GPS module etc.

This probably also suggests the new multimedia system uses fewer chips than the legacy system and it's actually cheaper to use the new system. Modern systems-on-chips does the job of many chips in just one chip (e.g. the main processor in your phone used to require a dozen other chips to do the same work). Hopefully that's what they are using.


The reality on the ground is changing quickly and how people view EVs will be very different in 8 years compared to Today. Promises are flexible.
I assume the node for the new gen SOC is more readily available then the archaic legacy systems previous lexus systems ran on which were most deeply effected by the chip shortage.

I wonder why they kept the heavy refresh IS and TGNA LS on the old architecture? The GX makes sense.
 

internalaudit

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to know li-ion hold, look at the most largest scale real world test: electronic devices, namely smartphones. battery is unusable after three years and should be replaced, just in time that new OS is not updated/supported.
To be fair, many of the 1st gen Nissan Leaf batteries are still functioning after eight years but likely a good proportion of those at a reduced capacity. But we have to remember the eight year battery was dictated by US and other government so it's not through the automakers' largess that the batteries are covered eight years.

The Tesla Model S batteries may be holding up better with liquid cooling and good thermal management system.

There's the reserve/buffer capacity that Tesla slowly releases. That is most likely why people are thinking their batteries are degrading by 1% each year. They are extrapolating that to mean their batteries will last at least 20 years, or maybe some even think they will last 100 years.

With constant charging, occasional fast charging, hot climate, occasional depletion to below 20%, calendar degradation, rapid acceleration (some of which Toyota bZ4X and Lexus RZ are trying to avoid), freezing temperature charging, all these variables are going to cause many battery cells to eventually fail before the 1,000 full charge cycle. It's law of average so some will last longer and many will last the average but some cells will die sooner.

Problem is it doesn't seem to take a whole lot of failed battery cells to cause issues and the medium to long-term solution is not to replace bad cells with good cells as per my reading on Tesla Motor Club. There's more to it than that and there will be various scenarios requiring their own individual solutions.
 

Levi

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To be fair, many of the 1st gen Nissan Leaf batteries are still functioning after eight years but likely a good proportion of those at a reduced capacity. But we have to remember the eight year battery was dictated by US and other government so it's not through the automakers' largess that the batteries are covered eight years.

The Tesla Model S batteries may be holding up better with liquid cooling and good thermal management system.

There's the reserve/buffer capacity that Tesla slowly releases. That is most likely why people are thinking their batteries are degrading by 1% each year. They are extrapolating that to mean their batteries will last at least 20 years, or maybe some even think they will last 100 years.

With constant charging, occasional fast charging, hot climate, occasional depletion to below 20%, calendar degradation, rapid acceleration (some of which Toyota bZ4X and Lexus RZ are trying to avoid), freezing temperature charging, all these variables are going to cause many battery cells to eventually fail before the 1,000 full charge cycle. It's law of average so some will last longer and many will last the average but some cells will die sooner.

Problem is it doesn't seem to take a whole lot of failed battery cells to cause issues and the medium to long-term solution is not to replace bad cells with good cells as per my reading on Tesla Motor Club. There's more to it than that and there will be various scenarios requiring their own individual solutions.
There is no problem with degrading batteries, it is physics and can't be manipulated. It is a replacement/maintenance part. The problem is when changing battery is not possible/complex/expensive (as in phones/laptops) and when the battery is excessively expensive. I don't want "better" batteries, I want cheaper, replaceable and repairable batteries. It is economics that hinders that, and economics is manipulable.
 

NXracer

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So in regards to the TMC company health with the EV trend, there seems to be some concern with some folks raising eyebrows at the altman Z score and Toyota's debt to equity ratio at 0.50 (danger territory.)

Any takes on this @CRSKTN ?
 

Levi

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Problem is it doesn't seem to take a whole lot of failed battery cells to cause issues and the medium to long-term solution is not to replace bad cells with good cells as per my reading on Tesla Motor Club. There's more to it than that and there will be various scenarios requiring their own individual solutions.
There goes battery repair. It will be battery recycling, so you pay full price battery, give it for free back despite its valuable scrape material, and buy it back again full price in new car. Cars turned into smartphones.

 

Sulu

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So in regards to the TMC company health with the EV trend, there seems to be some concern with some folks raising eyebrows at the altman Z score and Toyota's debt to equity ratio at 0.50 (danger territory.)

Any takes on this @CRSKTN ?
A debt-to-equity ratio of 0.5 is not bad; it is good.
 

internalaudit

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There goes battery repair. It will be battery recycling, so you pay full price battery, give it for free back despite its valuable scrape material, and buy it back again full price in new car. Cars turned into smartphones.

That's what Tesla does. Charge $22K even if the issue with the battery pack isn't at the cell level. No core offset is done. A few owners could be ripped off, depending on the real issue.

Good thing a few entrepreneurial people started offering third-party battery cell replacement which could cost a lot less, depending on the issue. Like four to five of them in the US. They do offset the battery core.

Recycling will not benefit BEV owners for sure. Being able to get replacement batteries is key. Sure wealthy people will not care but resale value of BEVs past battery warranty period will clearly show a steep decline, especially if battery replacement costs too much or is not available. Not many models/makes will have third-party support, but I think Toyota's will.

Even Toyota doesn't talk about battery replacement but at least it said it is confident its batteries will last 10 years and retain 90% of the capacity.

Tesla talks about one million mile battery but in early 2020, took down the unlimited mileage coverage on the S and X LOL!
 

NXracer

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I wonder if the UX will return to the states, or cater to the markets where its a resounding success like the CT?