LandCruiser Returns?

[NXracer]

I first heard that Jon Lieberman, who famously publicly broadcasted that the LC300 would not be returning to the NADM, now claims it would be coming back in 2025ish.

Now I am hearing that Toyota is finalizing plans on a 5 seater SUV that will have wear the LC badge but not be a simple LC300 import. While my first reaction is its the EV day FJ CUV in the top left, but the dimensions seem to be tiny, unless thats the plan to invoke a retro LC/J40 vibes?

 

[Levi]

An electric brick makes no sense, except for farmers/military/rural with specific needs. Unless many Americans in the next years will change their lifestyle and live "off-grid" with farming...

 

[qtb007]

With the popularity of the Bronco and Wrangler, it would be a no brainer to bring a Toyota competitor. The question is how they differentiate it from the 4Runner. The FJ Cruiser did an OK job at being different, but having a removable roof or at least some sort of targa top would go a long way to making it stand alone.

 

[Levi]

With the popularity of the Bronco and Wrangler, it would be a no brainer to bring a Toyota competitor. The question is how they differentiate it from the 4Runner. The FJ Cruiser did an OK job at being different, but having a removable roof or at least some sort of targa top would go a long way to making it stand alone.

Bronco and Wrangler look good for the purpose (look simple), but they are still modern cars with normal car components, so they are not automatically reliable/durable. Taking the later into account, what do they do more than a 4Runner? Other than style, not much. The same can be said about FJ Cruiser. But is there really a market for it in currently? Ford and Jeep do not have a direct 4Runner competitor, unless Ford sells the Everest/Endeavour world wide, which in the Australian market is a competitor to both the Fortuner and the Prado.

 

[qtb007]

I have zero interest, personally, in a Wrangler or Bronco. I’m a very happy 4Runner owner and expect I’ll continue that even after this 5 seat, Land Cruiser badged, non-LC300 comes out. The hot sales of the Wrangler and Bronco, with their shoddy build quality, tells me that there would be a market for a Toyota reliable, Toyota capable vehicle in that segment.

 

[NXracer]

I dont get it either as well, but I guess if you dont need the cargo area, they can provide better approach and dep angles.

Remember the one thing that came out of the engineers roundtable meeting with Ih8mud owners was the idea of a cheaper entry point for the LC around the 40K mark.

 

[ssun30]

Retro sells for a premium. A FJ Cruiser is just a 4Runner/Prado with a different appearance kit but more profitable.

 

[qtb007]

Retro sells for a premium. A FJ Cruiser is just a 4Runner/Prado with a different appearance kit but more profitable.

FJs are worth big money right now, but when they were still available new, the sales trended like sports cars. Big units for the first 2-3 model years and then, even with engine improvements, they dropped to about 25% the initial model years. I recall that the discounts were heavier on the FJ than the 4Runner when I was buying in 2010. The suicide doors and smaller cargo area were big detriments for me.

I think applying retro cues to a 4Runner platform, giving it good breakover, approach, and departure angles, keeping it 4 real doors, and having some way for an open air experience would slot in nicely beside the 4Runner and steal some of those 200k annual Wrangler sales. Again, not my cup of tea, but I think the market is there. I think something like that could wear a Land Cruiser badge while not being a direct port of the LC300. IMO, the Sequoia is carrying the torch for the LC300 in the US.

 

[NXracer]

If this new LC get here as stated around MY25, its gonna be just under the line before the market gets flooded with EV lifestyle vehicles. Hopefully it comes with PHEV/HEV from the start

 

[Sulu]

I think applying retro cues to a 4Runner platform, giving it good breakover, approach, and departure angles, keeping it 4 real doors, and having some way for an open air experience would slot in nicely beside the 4Runner and steal some of those 200k annual Wrangler sales. Again, not my cup of tea, but I think the market is there. I think something like that could wear a Land Cruiser badge while not being a direct port of the LC300. IMO, the Sequoia is carrying the torch for the LC300 in the US.

If you are looking for good approach, departure and breakover angles, a short wheelbase vehicle with short front and rear overhangs -- like a Jeep Wrangler or FJ Cruiser -- is what you are looking for.

 

[qtb007]

If you are looking for good approach, departure and breakover angles, a short wheelbase vehicle with short front and rear overhangs -- like a Jeep Wrangler or FJ Cruiser -- is what you are looking for.

While it is true that shorter wheelbase and short overhangs are the best for angles, that size of vehicle isn't popular in the US. Wrangler's volume is around 90% 4 door and 10% 2 door. They just need to make sure it is 4 door bronco/wrangler competitive.

4Runner off-road capability could be improved considerably by designing it with clearance for 33"+ tires standard and bumpers with less overhang. Everything a little more high and tight versus the 4Runner from the factory without pinching the target market down to short wheelbase dedicated offroaders. Think more like the changes that an F150 takes when moving to Raptor. The Pro line is marginally more capable offroad than the standard TRD OR models, but it sells for way more. Raptorize a 4Runner platform, give it FJ40/FJ70 Cruiser style.

 

[Gecko]

This subject comes up frequently on the T4R.org forums, and some folks have even participated in Toyota-sponsored clinics and focus groups for the 6th gen 4Runner. Last I checked in on that subject, Toyota realized that while enthusiasts may wish for a Wrangler fighter, what core 4Runner buyers like is the superior reliability, smoothness, comfort, flexibility and NVH of the 4Runner with BOF ruggedness and almost-as-good off road capability. It's a bit of a niche that Toyota has carved out, and moving away from that 4Runner formula would not really make the 4Runner a 4Runner anymore. Enthusiasts want more ground clearance, more rock crawling, lockers, etc... but they make up 5% of buyers. Toyota knows this and wants to make money by keeping the other 95% happy while creating trims that will appease 50% of the 5% of enthusiasts.

Thus, this idea of bringing back the iconic Land Cruiser name to pick up where the FJ Cruiser left off and go more toe-to-toe with the Wrangler and Bronco. Such a vehicle would be louder, less smooth and more brash -- but more capable -- by design. It would also allow the 4Runner to continue to be a 4Runner.

 

[NomadDan]

One quote I read from someone who supposedly works at Toyota is that the Land Cruiser will return to NA as a "cheaper, more off-road oriented model". What that means, I don't know. My assumption is that it would be a mid-size SUV based on the Prado/4Runner/GX platform. Something like the FJ Cruiser.

I've been a part of the Toyota online community for over two decades and have owned two 4Runners (current DD is a 2000 V6 5spd Sport). The appeal of the 4Runner has always been its reliability, and I've seen more than one Jeep owner jump ship for a Toyota. If Ford can't get their issues sorted out with the Bronco, we might see people jumping ship to Toyota there too. The bar is set high for the next gen 4Runner and Tacoma, and I hope Toyota can deliver with what will most likely be 2.4T and 2.4T hybrid drivetrains. I'm skeptical.

As a 4Runner enthusiast who has done a bit of off-roading, what I would like to see in the 6th gen 4Runner is this: A 4.0 NA V6 (or maybe a TT 3.0 V6 or single turbo 3.3L V6 diesel), locking diffs front and rear, 7 speed manual with close ratio 1st and 2nd gears, optional factory rear tire carrier capable of 35s, factory 33" tires as an option, the ability to fit 35s with minimal to no trimming, a fuel tank that doesn't hang so low, and built-in under floor storage in the rear.

The new Land Cruiser could build on that platform and add a removable top and retro styling. And if Toyota really wanted to wow people, they could go with the 70 series solid axle front end (not very likely). Or, who knows, maybe Toyota will finally redesign the 70 series and just bring that lineup to the US. I'd love a new version of the Troopy. I'm sure the van life crowd would love that too.

The TRD Pro models are all a gimmick. Dealers are asking ridiculous prices for something that is little more than an appearance package. A TRD Off-road Premium 4Runner is a better value, and it even has the optional KDSS that isn't available on the TRD Pro. Toyota should really give the TRD Pro lineup the Raptor treatment. A TRD Pro Tacoma with a factory long travel front end, 35s, and a 400hp 3.5 TT V6 from the Tundra would be a hot seller.

Just my $.02.

 

[ssun30]

If you are looking for good approach, departure and breakover angles, a short wheelbase vehicle with short front and rear overhangs -- like a Jeep Wrangler or FJ Cruiser -- is what you are looking for.

Short wheelbase is not always good for off-roading. It's terrible for high speed desert crossing because of poor stability. In technical trails short wheelbase are worse at crossing ditches.

The Land Cruiser stayed with the 2850mm "golden ratio" because it's the best compromise. Till this day the J80 is still the ideal size for all terrains although not best at any. I wish they adhere strictly to J80's size not just wheelbase but later generations just get worse and worse overhang.

Thus, this idea of bringing back the iconic Land Cruiser name to pick up where the FJ Cruiser left off and go more toe-to-toe with the Wrangler and Bronco. Such a vehicle would be louder, less smooth and more brash -- but more capable -- by design. It would also allow the 4Runner to continue to be a 4Runner.

Or, who knows, maybe Toyota will finally redesign the 70 series and just bring that lineup to the US. I'd love a new version of the Troopy. I'm sure the van life crowd would love that too.

There was an interview (couldn't recall where) with Toyota Australia boss who said they will eventually replace the J70 chassis some time this decade because it's getting hard to make it road legal (safety and emissions). He also hinted it may come with EV option.

2024 will be the 40-year anniversary of J70. I think that's about the right time for a successor. Most of the world needs a high GVM pickup truck above the Hilux so J70 replacement has to come (J70 has higher GVM than even the J300 LC and Tundra). Built on the tougher GA-F platform but keeping the same focus on utility and simplicity. I think they are waiting for the LC300 and Tundra to iron out the problems especially with powertrains before putting them in a J70 successor.

BTW I really like this customer-focused approach to product development seen on recent TMC products. It prevents the kind of major mistakes they made with 5LS and S220 Crown.

 

[Levi]

You might really be onto something guys with the LC70. Also LC70 industrial EV makes a lot of sense for mining companies,electric LC70's are third-party converted.

 

[Gecko]

Random data point: A number of people start with a Wrangler and then get burnt out on the lack of refinement and reliability, and later jump to a 4Runner. For example, good luck taking a call on the highway in a Wrangler. That seems like a minor thing, but it starts to wear on you in real world ownership.

So again... Toyota can't give up the current 4Runner formula because it works so well. Land/FJ Cruiser opens up the territory for that Wrangler and Bronco competitor that enthusiasts want.

 

[ssun30]

Random data point: A number of people start with a Wrangler and then get burnt out on the lack of refinement and reliability, and later jump to a 4Runner. For example, good luck taking a call on the highway in a Wrangler. That seems like a minor thing, but it starts to wear on you in real world ownership.

So again... Toyota can't give up the current 4Runner formula because it works so well. Land/FJ Cruiser opens up the territory for that Wrangler and Bronco competitor that enthusiasts want.

As a Wrangler owner I can say that's so true. Can't go above 110km/h and can't go in a straight line! Almost thought about getting an import 4Runner TRD Pro which we call "Super Prado" here.