It sounds like the Nissan Z is Dead...

[Gecko]

It sounds like the Nissan Z might be dead

The Nissan 370Z might be the final Z car.

Speaking to Australian publication Drive at the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show, Philippe Klein, chief planning officer for Nissan, offered no commitment to the sports car. He's the third Nissan executive to suggest the Z's days are numbered—or at least that the sports car isn't much of a priority for the brand.

“This vehicle is still very alive but at the same time it is in a segment that is gradually declining, so that is making the [business] case more difficult," he said. Klein pointed to the GT-R as a better halo car and reiterated the brand's commitment to Nismo. Nissan continues to apply the Nismo badge to various cars, and soon, the 2018 Leaf will likely gain a sporting Nismo trim.

“We have no intention to quit excitement but we’re going to make it happen in different ways,” he added.

The first comments surrounding the Z's uncertain future trace back to the 2017 New York Auto Show, where Christian Meunier, senior vice president of Nissan Sales, Marketing, and Operations, flat out said the 370Z "is not a priority" for the brand. Ouch.

Next, former Nissan Australia managing director Richard Emery said he was not aware of any future plans for a new Nissan Z. "There’s nothing pending. Not anytime soon.” Boo.

Over the years, Nissan mulled over a few different directions for the Z. There was the Nissan Gripz sport crossover concept and the smaller IDx concept, both of which previewed various avenues for a new Z car.

Pouring peroxide on the cut is this year's Tokyo Motor Show, where reports suggested a new Z concept would debut to preview the next-generation car. The Nissan Z will celebrate its 50th anniversary in 2019—if the car makes it that far.

Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1113490_it-sounds-like-the-nissan-z-might-be-dead

 

[mmcartalk]

One feature on the 370Z I always liked (and, though I may be wrong, I think the 370Z was the first vehicle to introduce this to the American market) was the computer-controlled rev-match for the manual-transmission downshifts. It eliminated the need to either wear out your synchros or screw around with double-clutching or heel-and-toe downshifts. For purists, or for those who didn't want to admit they needed help for smooth downshifts, the feature could be turned off.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

One feature on the 370Z I always liked (and, though I may be wrong, I think the 370Z was the first vehicle to introduce this to the American market) was the computer-controlled rev-match for the manual-transmission downshifts. It eliminated the need to either wear out your synchros or screw around with double-clutching or heel-and-toe downshifts. For purists, or for those who didn't want to admit they needed help for smooth downshifts, the feature could be turned off.

You're totally correct. The 370Z was the first car to introduce the concept of downshift rev-matching for clutch-pedal true manual transmissions.

 

[Carmaker1]

I wouldn't say that at all. Sure, I am still an outsider unlike that of this exec. However, a design for the next generation Z has already been approved as of last year. Last year they were still reviewing full-size Z35 clay models of the exterior 13.5 months ago. I would have to check with the source again, for a more concrete timeline.

A new Z isn't likely to show up until CY2019. Even if that is the case, I should remember the Infiniti QX70 was canned and refocused, despite having another 2 years before launch for 2019. Becoming more of a better packaged vehicle, still using RWD.

It will now be FWD due a last minute change in market positioning. A stupid one, considering Infiniti's nomenclature change in 2013 and having the RWD QX70 sit below QX80 and above larger FWD QX60.

 

[mmcartalk]

I wouldn't say that at all. Sure, I am still an outsider unlike that of this exec. However, a design for the next generation Z has already been approved as of last year. Last year they were still reviewing full-size Z35 clay models of the exterior 13.5 months ago. I would have to check with the source again, for a more concrete timeline.

A new Z isn't likely to show up until CY2019. Even if that is the case, I should remember the Infiniti QX70 was canned and refocused, despite having another 2 years before launch for 2019. Becoming more of a better packaged vehicle, still using RWD.

It will now be FWD due a last minute change in market positioning. A stupid one, considering Infiniti's nomenclature change in 2013 and having the RWD QX70 sit below QX80 and above larger FWD QX60.

A FWD Nissan Z-car......are you kidding? Or are are you simply refering to converting a RWD Infiniti SUV to FWD?

 

[Carmaker1]

The latter. I was describing something else in a different paragraph, in context of the Infiniti. Not the Z. With Nissan's track record, not out of question really. An Altima roadster.

The QX70 redesign was cancelled and nameplate put on hiatus (I leaked that information last spring, months before the press got wind of it in late summer).

It will be replaced shortly after the Murano is redesigned, in 2021 based on that very model. Doing the very opposite of what was intended originally, back in 1999 for the original FX, to not be a rebadged Nissan and devoid of FWD mass-market roots.

My point was made to say, that alternatively a design approval of a replacement, doesn't eliminate the possibility of cancellation, citing the QX70 situation as an example.

I for one, cannot understand why they fail to make money on their RWD products, to support development of replacements in timely fashion. By now they really should've figured out what is necessary to bring in customers for the Z and Infiniti brand products.

At this point, only the next Q70 and Q50 are concretely happening, in regards to unibody RWD Nissan products through 2020. Everything else is in limbo or not before 2021.

 

[mikeavelli]

The latter. I was describing something else in a different paragraph, in context of the Infiniti. Not the Z. With Nissan's track record, not out of question really. An Altima roadster.

The QX70 redesign was cancelled and nameplate put on hiatus (I leaked that information last spring, months before the press got wind of it in late summer).

It will be replaced shortly after the Murano is redesigned, in 2021 based on that very model. Doing the very opposite of what was intended originally, back in 1999 for the original FX, to not be a rebadged Nissan and devoid of FWD mass-market roots.

My point was made to say, that alternatively a design approval of a replacement, doesn't eliminate the possibility of cancellation, citing the QX70 situation as an example.

I for one, cannot understand why they fail to make money on their RWD products, to support development of replacements in timely fashion. By now they really should've figured out what is necessary to bring in customers for the Z and Infiniti brand products.

At this point, only the next Q70 and Q50 are concretely happening, in regards to unibody RWD Nissan products through 2020. Everything else is in limbo or not before 2021.

That confuses me too. I thought the FM RWD platform was a huge success.

 

[Carmaker1]

That confuses me too. I thought the FM RWD platform was a huge success.

The profits just seem to not be there anymore, when Infiniti is required to be competitive, as in being required to outshine their competitors to win over customers.

It was easy to have great sales in the early-mid 2000s with low-cost interiors with futuristic styling and other cost cutting efforts made. When forced to slowly restore all-around quality entering the turn of the decade period, it seems that profits might've become more similar to the Nissan brand and in some cases, much worse (pre-facelift M37/M56).

My dad probably has a little more info on this, even if at his level he is not privileged too much either in not being a Nissan/Infiniti employee. Is the business case too unsatisfactory?

The idea that a new Z will require Nissan to spend a over $1 billion and causes them concern for low ROI, makes me think they are penny pinching too much. This should've been the time for a new modular platform, engineered to last through at least 2030.

 

[mmcartalk]

It was easy to have great sales in the early-mid 2000s with low-cost interiors with futuristic styling and other cost cutting efforts made. When forced to slowly restore all-around quality entering the turn of the decade period, it seems that profits might've become more similar to the Nissan brand and in some cases, much worse (pre-facelift M37/M56).

I'd blame at least part of that on French ownership...especially with Renault. Renaults, though sometimes fun to drive, have long been known for their quirkiness, unreliability, and Cracker-Jack materials.

 

[Carmaker1]

I'd blame at least part of that on French ownership...especially with Renault. Renaults, though sometimes fun to drive, have long been known for their quirkiness, unreliability, and Cracker-Jack materials.

It entirely goes back to that. Renault. If Nissan hadn't botched marketing Infiniti out the gate and bad ROI on excess platforms during the 80s and 90s, they wouldn't have been in this position.

Their pre-2001 (CY) redesigns had okay to decent interior material quality. Starting in 2001 with the 2002 Altima, things went south.

The 2002 Q45 was the opposite, in having been a done deal much earlier (1998) and unaffected by Ghosn's people.

The RWD FM platform dates back to about 1994, when plans were made to replace the JDM Skyline (R33) with a global RWD product. Poor finances delayed things, while Toyota moved forward in early 1994 with the 038T program Lexus IS.

As late as 1999, interior materials were decent for the G35 prototypes. By pilot production run for the JDM Nissan versions in late 2000, Renault had already dumbed things down to cut costs and simply rebadged it as Infiniti G35.

Unlike the G35, the 350Z interior was entirely developed under the alliance. The G35 interior was pretty much done by 1998, but only material selection and small details changed months after Renault came into the picture in mid-1999.

 

[mmcartalk]

Their pre-2001 (CY) redesigns had okay to decent interior material quality. Starting in 2001 with the 2002 Altima, things went south.

Yep......totally agree. I was absolutely shocked when I first saw the interior of the post-2000 Altima, and its Mickey-Mouse materials inside. You could grab the gauge-housing and rock it back and forth (and almost pull it right out) with your fingers. And its finish looked like that of a plastic toy out a cracker-jack box. It made some of the lowest entry-level econoboxes look and feel nice in comparison. And the Altima was only the first in a number of Nissan (and, to a lesser extent, Infiniti) products in the early 2000s which got the same treatment. The Infinitis, of course, weren't quite as stark inside because they cost more.

Of course, while I'm not necessarily going to defend all of this (there are a number of other ways to cut costs, too, besides vehicle-materials), it must also be remembered that Ghosn, like Lee Iacocca and Hal Sperlich at Chrysler twenty years before, was dealing with a truly desperate situation at Nissan, which was on the verge of bankruptcy. Tough circumstances sometimes call for tough responses.

Also forgotten, in the midst of this, was the fact that Nissan had lost a lot of money in the leasing business simply by over-estimating the residual value (and under-estimating the projected depreciation) of their leased vehicles. It made for a generally nice deal for customers, but left the company high and dry when those vehicles were returned at the end of the lease-period, and couldn't be re-sold (or re-leased) for what the company and dealerships were betting on.

 

[Carmaker1]

The poorly gauged residuals was also what led them close to bankruptcy, how did I not know that? Makes a good amount of sense on the financial side.

That was a good read and very informative, as I am only able to look at things historically and had no awareness of Nissan's troubles back then due to my youth.

Actually, at the time when the Z business case was reworked and Ghosn made his way from Paris to Tokyo back in mid-1999 to assist, I honestly was just a little boy in love with automobiles, a few years short of junior high and clueless about how things worked in the industry.

Despite first getting regular access to C&D in 1999, I had no idea about Nissan's new Renault connection until literally a year later, while vacationing in the UK during June 2000 and reading AutoCar (mostly grew up in US, recently returned).

Back to what you said...Did Nissan's leasing residual issues date back to only the 1990s or even before that?

 

[mmcartalk]

The poorly gauged residuals was also what led them close to bankruptcy, how did I not know that? Makes a good amount of sense on the financial side.

Back to what you said...Did Nissan's leasing residual issues date back to only the 1990s or even before that?

As I understand it, some of both, although, after 2000, it was mostly due to the fact that the increasing cheapness of the designs put them at a disadvantage compared to their main Toyota/Honda competitors...and it was reflected in public image. Nissan also (supposedly), at first, also lost money on the all-electric Leaf, which, for a time, was mostly leased rather than bought. The Leaf simply cost more to produce than what Nissan could sell (or lease) it for.

That was a good read and very informative, as I am only able to look at things historically and had no awareness of Nissan's troubles back then due to my youth.

Thanks. I've been following the auto buisness (and reviewing cars on the side) since I was teen in the 1960s (I grew up in the heyday of the American muscle-cars, but actually liked the big American luxury-boats even more LOL). Your knowledge, though (and ability to write) clearly exceeds mine in some areas.

Despite first getting regular access to C&D in 1999, I had no idea about Nissan's new Renault connection until literally a year later, while vacationing in the UK during June 2000 and reading AutoCar (mostly grew up in US, recently returned).

Around that time, a number of mergers, sell-offs, and buyouts were going on (Daimler/Chrysler, Ford/Volvo/Jaguar/Aston Martin/Land-Rover, etc.....)......but the Renault/Nissan alliance was the first union of a Japanese and French auto manufacturer.

 

[mmcartalk]

Anyhow, back to the 370Z, if Nissan does drop it, one thing I'll always remember about it is the nice computer-rev matching on downshifts. I liked that feature when I did my 370Z review, several years ago.....no awkward attempts at double-clutching or heel/toe shifting to keep from overworking the synchros. Traditional stick-enthusiasts (or those unconcerned with synchro-wear) could turn the system off if desired.