Grumbles, Gripes and Grievances and what Toyota/Lexus can do to earn your loyalty?

[mikeavelli]

I am ecstatic about high interest rates, as someone who lives well within their means, it will be nice not to be mixed up with people who exist via excessive leverage at car dealers, home sales and elsewhere.

Low interest rates were such a detriment to everything. They rewarded vicious, greedy stupid people who blindly bid up home prices, propped up zombie businesses or bad business practices, and flooded the market with 'luxury products' that meant nothing any more. They empowered terrible businesses that then owned them via debt, who then took those proceeds and starting hoovering up assets and pressing down on salaries/money for real people who are now overburdened.

I really hope these changes lead to a bloodbath at dealerships, purging all the dead weight.

Good points. This week a lot of auto news is says brands including luxury brands now have to go back downmarket to keep volume. The big reason is interest rates have normalized and a lot of people clearly thought 0-1% interest was normal and forever. Payments are up and options are down.

Brands kept bumping prices up as everyone else since money was flowing with low interest. I mean how did the average car become 48k!?!? That was the price of a GS 430 20 years ago. It’s wild.

On the dealer end for decades especially with the internet sharing information, they sold cars at a loss propped up by manufacturer incentives. Covid for the first time changed that to msrp and over msrp.

Now we have inventory climbing, interest rates higher and people being a bit more selective.

The thing is, like normal, the brands that are respected and top tier will thrive. Brands in the middle will get hurt. Value brands will thrive.

 

[Kelvin2020]

Totally different tho. In Japan you have to custom order your car. No inventory. People are fine with waiting. In the states people complain about everything and want the car for 20 grand under msrp or they will post on social media while also wanting the car yesterday.

I agree some dealer experiences could be better but as customers many people aren’t exactly a thrill to work with lol.

I agree with you, also in terms of the dealer experience It's probably just a cultural difference.

 

[internalaudit]

Good points. This week a lot of auto news is says brands including luxury brands now have to go back downmarket to keep volume. The big reason is interest rates have normalized and a lot of people clearly thought 0-1% interest was normal and forever. Payments are up and options are down.

Brands kept bumping prices up as everyone else since money was flowing with low interest. I mean how did the average car become 48k!?!? That was the price of a GS 430 20 years ago. It’s wild.

On the dealer end for decades especially with the internet sharing information, they sold cars at a loss propped up by manufacturer incentives. Covid for the first time changed that to msrp and over msrp.

Now we have inventory climbing, interest rates higher and people being a bit more selective.

The thing is, like normal, the brands that are respected and top tier will thrive. Brands in the middle will get hurt. Value brands will thrive.

Somethings are definitely going to give. Many households are not as liquid and with this more normal interest rate regime, there will be really fewer demand for vehicles that need to be replaced every time the warranty ends. Even I am now hesitating going with German makes because I've noticed so many posts on forums and even good automotive YouTube channels says be prepared for repairs after the warranty period ends. It's like a given that things will start falling apart in a few years whereas my Lexus Ct200h and 11 Accord 4-cyl are fine after 12/13 years.

Lots have moved from German to Japanese and haven't looked back. I can't blame them. Once Lexus lead the charge on RWD-biased AWD BEVs, I'm sure they will be wonderful enough vehicles.

I know there are a lot more higher paying jobs and more thriving small businesses in the US than there are in Canada yet it's crazy how prices of mid to high-end cars here keep going up significantly each year though it seems manufacturers are offering dealers a lot more discounts now. On Harry's Garage channel on YT, the brand new i5 M60 is already being discounted 10% off the MSRP by dealerships in the UK.

I look at used car pricing here in Canada and man, these luxury German vehicles do depreciate a whole lot!

It's looking more like our next vehicle purchase will be a Toyota or Lexus, or maybe a Honda/Acura once there are more electrified vehicles to choose from.

 

[Motor]

Toyota and Lexus have my loyalty. This is minor, but annoying. I haven’t warmed up to this shifter:



Thankfully, the new GX got it right:

 

[dbthompson]

And the GX has the regular door handles.