Auto News-At last, Honda and Toyota prepare for turbo charge

mikeavelli

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http://www.autonews.com/article/201...-for-turbo-charge?cciid=email-autonews-weekly

At last, Honda and Toyota prepare for turbo charge
Companies had relied on other tech -- until now

David Undercoffler
Automotive News
July 27, 2015 - 12:01 am ET
It's a cry echoing through the halls of Honda: The turbos are coming! The turbos are coming!

And it's about time. Japan's Big 3 -- Honda, Toyota and Nissan -- are conspicuously late to the turbo party. Walk onto a Honda or Toyota lot and you won't see a single vehicle with a turbo under the hood. At Nissan, only the Juke crossover and the fire-breathing GT-R supercar use them.

Meanwhile, Ford and some European brands use turbocharged engines extensively, as do an increasing number of models from other U.S. makes and the Korean brands.

What explains Japan's moving so late to turbos? They didn't need to until now.

"The Japanese were able to wait longer to adopt these technologies because they could," said Ed Kim, vice president of industry analysis at AutoPacific. "They had less to prove to the buying public."

Honda, Toyota and Nissan had many models that were at or near the top of their segments for fuel economy without adopting technologies such as turbos, direct injection and multispeed or continuously variable transmissions, or using them more sparingly than the rest of the industry.

"The Japanese were able to afford to not be at the absolute cutting edge of powertrain technology for a few years."
Ed Kim
AutoPacific


This made them appealing to car buyers, as well as government regulators watching emissions and fuel economy averages. Waiting also saved these automakers piles of money that they could invest in developing longer-term strategies such as Nissan's Leaf electric car or Toyota and Honda's hydrogen fuel cell cars.

But these brands are beginning to reach the efficiency limits of their older technologies. To keep pace with rivals -- and regulators -- Japan's 3 are planning big changes over the next five years.

Honda will lead the turbo charge, taking advantage of an opportunity to inject some power into its bread-and-butter products. The automaker's new Civic, debuting in production form this year, will offer a 1.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Later versions of the Accord midsize sedan and CR-V crossover will also use that engine.

These three nameplates make up the backbone of Honda's lineup: In 2014 they accounted for more than 1 million sales, or 68 percent of Honda Motor Co.'s U.S. volume. As such they will have to carry the bulk of Honda's fuel-economy compliance burden.

"Downsized turbocharged engines offer the power that the customer wants along with the efficiencies of fuel economy and the benefits that go along with the lightweighting," Frank Paluch, president of Honda R&D Americas, told Automotive News.

Toyota's approach will be more measured in the coming years. A 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine will replace a V-6 in several Toyota and Lexus nameplates, including the Camry and Lexus IS.

But Toyota won't yet replace its mainstream four-cylinder engines with turbos. Instead, look for larger direct-injected engines that use the more efficient Atkinson cycle combustion, and a broader use of CVTs.

"The powertrain is still an area where we see ourselves as being able to squeeze out a significant amount of efficiency," said Andrew Coetzee, Toyota's group vice president for product planning.

Nissan, meanwhile, has embraced CVTs in the name of efficiency. Its adoption of turbos will be slower than Honda's and Toyota's. In the meantime, it will focus on adding direct injection to its engines.

Not all the changes coming from Japan are under the hood. Nissan, Honda and Toyota also plan to make up lost ground in infotainment systems.

"Once upon a time Japan was thought as the ultimate tech mecca, and now they're behind on infotainment technologies," AutoPacific's Kim said. "So look for some real progress in terms of getting their infotainment systems up to date."

You can reach David Undercoffler at undercoffler@crain.com.
 

Gecko

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I hope the rumor of 2.0T replacing the V6 in the Camry is not true. That platform is built to handle a V6 and I think the smoothness is a key purchase point for most buyers.
 

mmcartalk

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I hope the rumor of 2.0T replacing the V6 in the Camry is not true. That platform is built to handle a V6 and I think the smoothness is a key purchase point for most buyers.


Agreed. Some turbo fours are reasonably well-refined, but, overall, in most cases, I'd rather have a V6. But, though it doesn't necessarily affect us as car owners (except maybe for the cost of service), transversely-mounted V6s can sometimes be difficult for technicians to work on....especially the rear spark-plug bank. Fortunately, these plugs are now usually only replaced a couple of times in a car's lifetime....sometimes just once.

Some of the Camry's competitors, BTW, including the Sonata and Optima, have already done away with the V6 for regular and turbo fours.
 
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IS-SV

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Yes, we saw this coming, sophisticated/refined/torquey DI turbo 4's as entry level engines in premium cars and optional in regular cars. With Toyota and Honda more seriously involved with this trend it might get more interesting. Agreed, for existing platforms designed to accommodate V6's it sure would be nice to keep that as extra cost option.
 

mmcartalk

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"Once upon a time Japan was thought as the ultimate tech mecca, and now they're behind on infotainment technologies,"

The Japanese, at least in the automotive field, were never really that innovative in new technologies. What they DID do, very well, is take existing American or European processes and perfect them with what at the time was arguably the world's best quality control. Even the rotary engines that Mazda produced for years were originally German in design....Dr. Felix Wankel.
 

CIF

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I'm totally with you there Gecko. I hope it isn't true either. Last I heard Toyota was still seriously considering keeping the V6 on the Camry. This is due to the preference in North America for the smoothness and strong NVH attributes of a V6 engine.
 

IS-SV

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That article does contain a fair amount of speculation, no surprise that top automakers will keep engine details secret until they desire to release model specifics.
 

mmcartalk

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What explains Japan's moving so late to turbos? They didn't need to until now.

This may be the first we are seeing Japanese turbos on mainstream sedans, but they were in common use on Japanese sports cars decades ago (RX-7, Supra, 3000GT VR-4, 300ZX, Stealth, etc....). Back then, though, the turbos themselves were usually made by outside-source manufacturers such as Garrett....since bought out by Honeywell. Mitsubishi, though, did make their own turbos back then.
 

Och

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The Japanese, at least in the automotive field, were never really that innovative in new technologies. What they DID do, very well, is take existing American or European processes and perfect them with what at the time was arguably the world's best quality control. Even the rotary engines that Mazda produced for years were originally German in design....Dr. Felix Wankel.

Don't forget that todays automobiles rely on computers and electronics just as much as they rely on mechanical parts - and Japanese were always very advanced and innovative in electronics. They also have very advanced robots that aid in assembling cars at their factories.

That said, in todays global economy many innovations are often a combined effort by several international companies working together.
 

CIF

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Don't forget that todays automobiles rely on computers and electronics just as much as they rely on mechanical parts - and Japanese were always very advanced and innovative in electronics. They also have very advanced robots that aid in assembling cars at their factories.

That said, in todays global economy many innovations are often a combined effort by several international companies working together.

True, and just to add, international supplies often tend tobe aligned with certain automaker "families" be it a specific American, German, or Japanese automaker.
 

mikeavelli

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Honestly if they refuse to let the engines be easily tuned by tuners, I don't really care if they stay N/A or not.

The Germans and Italians offer easy tuning for more power with their turbo powerplants. This attracts customers.

Take the Lexus 2.0 I-4. We can't touch it. What's the point for tuners like some of us here? Telling us we can add an intake and exhaust? Lol
 

mmcartalk

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Honestly if they refuse to let the engines be easily tuned by tuners, I don't really care if they stay N/A or not.

The Germans and Italians offer easy tuning for more power with their turbo powerplants. This attracts customers.

Take the Lexus 2.0 I-4. We can't touch it. What's the point for tuners like some of us here? Telling us we can add an intake and exhaust? Lol

Emissions inspections in some places already limit the amount of aftermarket tuning that can be done, regardless of the engine design.
 
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CIF

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Honestly if they refuse to let the engines be easily tuned by tuners, I don't really care if they stay N/A or not.

The Germans and Italians offer easy tuning for more power with their turbo powerplants. This attracts customers.

Take the Lexus 2.0 I-4. We can't touch it. What's the point for tuners like some of us here? Telling us we can add an intake and exhaust? Lol

Well to be fair, Toyota/Lexus for a long time have never really offered easy tuning, with very few exceptions. It's mainly for reliability/quality I believe.

So Toyota is staying consistent in that regard, even with their new engines.

Maybe I'm getting quite old in mentality, but I have very little interest to tune a car's engine. I'd rather get a different model or variant with more power, if that's what I'm after. The maximum tuning I would do is maybe add a supercharger to an NA engine, that's pretty much it.
 

IS-SV

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Agreed ^ , and Toyota/Lexus have established long term durability trend as justification for being somewhat conservative with engines.

BMW and VW/Audi certainly have more aftermarket upgrade offerings for turbo engines, but at what cost...

Yes exhaust is one of my favorite upgrades lol, realistically just for sound. My preference is to select engine that meets my power expectations in stock form.
 

mmcartalk

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Well to be fair, Toyota/Lexus for a long time have never really offered easy tuning, with very few exceptions. It's mainly for reliability/quality I believe.

So Toyota is staying consistent in that regard, even with their new engines.

Maybe I'm getting quite old in mentality, but I have very little interest to tune a car's engine. I'd rather get a different model or variant with more power, if that's what I'm after. The maximum tuning I would do is maybe add a supercharger to an NA engine, that's pretty much it.

TRD itself (Toyota Racing Development) used to offer a factory-approved, dealer-installed accessory supercharger packages for some four-cylinder Scion tC coupes and the 4.0L V6 (and perhaps others I wasn't aware of), but I'm not sure if it is still offered on the newer ones.
 
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