300-Series Land Cruiser (Next LX)

flexus

Follower
Messages
479
Reaction score
799

Joaquin Ruhi

Expert
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
1,176
Reaction score
1,680
Original and Google-translated versions of a BestCarWeb article suggest that Land Cruiser 300 will debut in fall 2020 (2021 model year) and will be powered by Toyota's first turbocharged hybrid powertrain, presumably a 3.5-liter twin turbo + hybrid batteries V35A-FXS.

They also predict a September 2022 (2023 model year) introduction for next-gen TNGA-F Land Cruiser Prado (and, by extension, Toyota 4Runner and Lexus GX)
 
Messages
41
Reaction score
24
Do you think they would go with the 3.5 V6 + Hybrid like their siblings instead (GS hybrid for example?) The space for a twin turbo system + battery seems like a lot of space and weight. .
 

Joaquin Ruhi

Expert
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
1,176
Reaction score
1,680
Do you think they would go with the 3.5 V6 + Hybrid like their siblings instead (GS hybrid for example?) The space for a twin turbo system + battery seems like a lot of space and weight. .
You make a good point about all that space and weight, but I'm just repeating what the BestCarWeb article says.
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,234
Reaction score
2,245
So offroad buyers in China got backstabbed by Toyota again. FAW-Toyota just announced EoL of the Prado next year because, you guessed it, not wanting to re-engineer the vehicle for new China-VI emission regulations even when it's entirely possible from a technical standpoint.

The new regulation will also see the complete death of gray import LC200 and LC150, basically leaving the Jeep Wrangler a monopoly in the BoF offroad market (Patrol and Pajero will die as well). Funnily enough, the only Land Cruiser that could pass China-VI is the USDM version with the mighty 3UR.

Now we see their glacial pace for TNGA-F replacement backfire badly. They are losing 100k high-value BoF truck sales this way. This is a huge scale business failure. Could you imagine Toyota USA throw their hands in the air and say 'let's just stop selling the 4Runner until we get a replacement in half a decade'?

This TNGA-F failure is becoming increasingly ridiculous each day.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

Follower
Messages
476
Reaction score
708
This TNGA-F failure is becoming increasingly ridiculous each day.
When has Toyota not failed us? Despite the reliability being more inferior to Toyota/Lexus (but still a lot better in recent years), the Germans just seem more appealing day after day.
 

suxeL

Fan
Messages
112
Reaction score
79
So offroad buyers in China got backstabbed by Toyota again. FAW-Toyota just announced EoL of the Prado next year because, you guessed it, not wanting to re-engineer the vehicle for new China-VI emission regulations even when it's entirely possible from a technical standpoint.

The new regulation will also see the complete death of gray import LC200 and LC150, basically leaving the Jeep Wrangler a monopoly in the BoF offroad market (Patrol and Pajero will die as well). Funnily enough, the only Land Cruiser that could pass China-VI is the USDM version with the mighty 3UR.

Now we see their glacial pace for TNGA-F replacement backfire badly. They are losing 100k high-value BoF truck sales this way. This is a huge scale business failure. Could you imagine Toyota USA throw their hands in the air and say 'let's just stop selling the 4Runner until we get a replacement in half a decade'?

This TNGA-F failure is becoming increasingly ridiculous each day.
100k sales a year or just is that the cost of the Vehicle? I would be surprised if the former.

We really havent seen anything TNGA-F in the wild, so not really a failure, more of an awkward transition phase. But, yup if you were in the market for a prado or LC darn thats tough
 

suxeL

Fan
Messages
112
Reaction score
79
When has Toyota not failed us? Despite the reliability being more inferior to Toyota/Lexus (but still a lot better in recent years), the Germans just seem more appealing day after day.
While a valid point, has the lack of pioneering features ever made a dent on their bottomline? TBH, one might say, all their launches in attempt to replicate the Big3 Luxury marques from germany really have fallen flat.

As with any business, they dont change unless their balance sheets tell them to change.
 

maiaramdan

Admirer
Messages
889
Reaction score
663
TBH guys, it's the same Toyota problem since late 90s early 00s

Toyota shifting and developing phases tends to infinity, how long the 3.5l are in charge, 10 years = no, it's nearly 20 years from it's development time, same goes on, Toyota has a lot of cash and I mean a lot of it, but they still afraid to spend some to quick the turtle processing, and I won't accept any excuse because that's not Toyota from late 60s to late 90s
 
Last edited:

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,234
Reaction score
2,245
100k sales a year or just is that the cost of the Vehicle? I would be surprised if the former.

We really havent seen anything TNGA-F in the wild, so not really a failure, more of an awkward transition phase. But, yup if you were in the market for a prado or LC darn thats tough
They sell close to 100k LC150 and LC200 combined in China each year. Half are gray imports. We are the largest market for the Prado by a long shot.

As with any business, they dont change unless their balance sheets tell them to change.
What's really ridiculous here is that they would rather not make money because of the upfront cost and extra effort. You would think a company as obsessed with bottom line like Toyota would never just say 'screw it let's not make money because it takes effort'.

They know very well a new FJ would sell in droves but instead they are like 'nevermind just let Jeep make all the money'. And now they are ceding another major BoF market to Jeep by cancelling the Prado. This is a completely irrational decision made by a company known to be too rational.

It's not that 'they only care about money'. What they are doing here is trying to not make money and give competitor free money. It's almost like the people managing their BoF programs are intentionally sabotaging the company.
 
Last edited:

suxeL

Fan
Messages
112
Reaction score
79
So more like 50k a year, since grey imports dont off the company any direct profits.
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,234
Reaction score
2,245
So more like 50k a year, since grey imports dont off the company any direct profits.
Yes they do. These grey imports are brand-new cars, not used ones. They don't appear from thin air. Nobody is stealing the car from their factory. The cars still need to be produced and sold from Toyota.
 

suxeL

Fan
Messages
112
Reaction score
79
Yes they do. These grey imports are brand-new cars, not used ones. They don't appear from thin air. Nobody is stealing the car from their factory. The cars still need to be produced and sold from Toyota.
I agree that they are coming from another regional market brand new, but you are bunching two separate issues in to one.

Toyota's China division isnt really seeing the needle pushed far enough to necessitate re certifying their offerings with 50k combined units (why would they if 50% of sales are not happening directly).

The impact on the circumvented imports, well thats up to those regional divisions that export their units to figure out and of course the grey market. And as you said since 50% of the LC/Prado units are circumvented imports, Toyota really has nothing to worry about. With the loss of direct sales, I would assume more regional toyota divisions outside China will post increased sales numbers by exporting their units to account for the loss of direct sales.

All in all seems, like the only looser is the customer.
 

Carmaker1

Admirer
Messages
592
Reaction score
1,646
Original and Google-translated versions of a BestCarWeb article suggest that Land Cruiser 300 will debut in fall 2020 (2021 model year) and will be powered by Toyota's first turbocharged hybrid powertrain, presumably a 3.5-liter twin turbo + hybrid batteries V35A-FXS.

They also predict a September 2022 (2023 model year) introduction for next-gen TNGA-F Land Cruiser Prado (and, by extension, Toyota 4Runner and Lexus GX)
Seeing the interesting discussion between SSun and suxexl, I want to touch on that in a bit.

I do have to point out that seeing this made me rethink the possibility that they are not protracted out further as I said.

My biggest issue is the timeliness of spacing out launches and factory retooling. And them trying to cut costs by taking their time with man power.

To do a new tundra it is a given in 2021 as a 2022 model but I'm thinking that a new Land Cruiser SUV is a 2022 model. These are the most concrete. A new 2023 Sequoia is also a given.

Is Toyota confident with managing 3 redesigns of their largest passenger vehicles in 2021. Then what does that mean for CY 2022? Sequoia is a definite that year, Prado is likely coming late 2022/early 2023. 4Runner we will hear more about next year. Can they manage 4 SUV redesigns alongside RX in 2022?

If they can, great. Leaves room for Tacoma, Hilux, and Fortuner in 2023.
They can't just do the Tundra in 2021 or they're going to be very behind. BTW, the first 300 series mules were spotted earlier this year in Australia. It's definitely 2 years out from mid-2019.
 

maiaramdan

Admirer
Messages
889
Reaction score
663
@Carmaker1 , sorry bro
But my feelings as the most here is simple
If a start-up maker as Rivian can make it and appeared it's full-size lineup SUV/TRUCK aka r1s & r1t in a single show not even over the same year why a corp like Toyota which got a spare money can make them buy all the car manufacturers, and got factories every where won't do the same?

Or at least as your numbers for example make 2021 for the full size SUVs/TRUCKs all of them the lexus limitless the LX, the LC300, Tundra, Sequoia

And make 2022 for GX, RX, Prado, 4Runner, Hilux, Tacoma & Fortunes with the unveiling of each of them a year prior selling start.
 
Messages
41
Reaction score
24
The only way to speed things up is if sales slow down drastically. #dontbuytoyota #yet #redesign #pls.

I think toyota is on the fence right now. Trying to balance full on BEV (between acquisition of chemical elements for battery production), hydrogen (infrastructure and implementation), and ICE (Current [or past] development of the new engine series]) and seeing where it would cut costs, most profitable, and if it makes logistically sense.

Toyota may be confused just like us...
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,234
Reaction score
2,245
The only way to speed things up is if sales slow down drastically. #dontbuytoyota #yet #redesign #pls.

I think toyota is on the fence right now. Trying to balance full on BEV (between acquisition of chemical elements for battery production), hydrogen (infrastructure and implementation), and ICE (Current [or past] development of the new engine series]) and seeing where it would cut costs, most profitable, and if it makes logistically sense.

Toyota may be confused just like us...
Yes it's actually their luxury to worry about so many things at once considering they are the only car manufacturer that makes every single niche of vehicle for every market. Resources are destined to be spread thin this way. For the average commuter who just want to get to work or send kids to school, Toyota is offering very convincing products, but unfortunately we the offroad enthusiasts just have to wait...
 
Messages
41
Reaction score
24
Yes it's actually their luxury to worry about so many things at once considering they are the only car manufacturer that makes every single niche of vehicle for every market. Resources are destined to be spread thin this way. For the average commuter who just want to get to work or send kids to school, Toyota is offering very convincing products, but unfortunately we the offroad enthusiasts just have to wait...
Completely agree with you here.

Speaking of the offroad enthusiasts who own toyota products... I have been scavenging FJ cruisers and the price just wont go down :(
The off road/Living van, Weeklander, Overlander scene is just too hot right now. They will never revise their BOF until it deems necessary. 4runner sales are trending up. Tacoma has a cult following.


Toyota, I just want a plug in hybrid 4runner/tacoma so I can justify running 37's around my town and pissing off those greenies.
 
Top