Will there be a Lexus GS F?

Posted by Kevin on March 26th, 2012

Autocar is reporting that a high-performance Lexus GS F is still very much a possibility:

Product planning chief Karl Schlicht revealed to Autocar that he would “love to see” a GS-F make production, although he conceded that he “didn’t yet have it approved” by senior Toyota management.

The GS-F would be the final piece in a five-part product strategy to boost Lexus’s image and its sporting credentials. “With a GS-F, we would have a solid pyramid structure of performance models,” said Schlicht.

He said it was important that any Lexus kept its refinement. So, if approved, it’s likely that the GS-F would be as much a potent grand tourer as an out-and-out focused driving tool.

This may be an obvious point, but any chance of a GS F rests on the success of the standard GS range. If the new model can maintain a decent sales pace, a high-performance variant makes a lot of sense — in fact, a senior Lexus official talking openly about a GS F would suggest that discussions are in advanced stages.

Autocar also includes some speculation on the GS F’s potential powertrain:

No details have been given of the GS-F’s powertrain, but insiders have hinted that it could be a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre engine. It would be reduced to 4.6 litres and around 450bhp, with an emphasis on boosting low-end torque.

This isn’t the first time the LFA’s V10 has been mentioned as a possible GS F engine — here’s a quote from GS Chief Engineer Kanamori-san last year from a Motor Trend article:

Mr. Kanamori said Lexus never planned to carry on with the V-10 project, but that it was “technically feasible to fit the engine into the new GS.” Further proving the idea has been seriously pondered, he said the engine would have to be detuned to deliver more torque instead of power.

Releasing a GS F with less than 500hp seems like a risky move given that this class of super-sedans is dominated by stats — and yet, even though the new BMW M5 is packing 560hp and the Mercedes E63 AMG has 518hp, if I had to choose between one of these models and their twin-turbo V8s versus a GS F with a LFA-sourced V10, I know what I’d pick every time.

[Source: Autocar]

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Comments
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    Crux
  • March 26, 2012
If it is..... Boyyy Oh Boi... I'll be FIRST at the automall Lexus dealership. Believe that!. 
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      Thomas
    • March 26, 2012
    To buy one or just to look at it?
    C
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      Crux
    • March 26, 2012
    Thomas, you got jokes!!!! To buy Shelock! But you already assume I'm fraking poor so I'll just window shop right?? Riiiiight. 
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Within 2 years, we will see the GSF I'm thinking a turbo-charged 5.0 from the ISF, with AWD, packing 525HP, and still weighing several hundred pounds less than the competition. BD
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    Turbocharging is boring. The new M5 has been criticized a lot for being not the same hooligan that the old E60 M5 was with the V10 sound and incredible response. Also, M5 weighs 2 and a half tons (4500 lbs). The detuned LFA engine with 450 HP even if it weighs 3700 lbs will not cut it. Not to mention, LFA's engine costs $157,000 to build. A supercharged version of the IS-F 5.0 Liter V8 will be most probably the case for the GS-F.
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      Brad
    • March 26, 2012
    I'm gonna have to agree with you.You just seem to make a lot of sense.
    B
    Who said supercharging is any better than turbocharging? You contradict yourself when you say turbocharging is bad, but supercharging is good....... BD
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    Supercharging has no turbo lag. Also, supercharging does not add as much weight as much as turbocharging does.
    B
    This isn't 1992. Current twin turbos don't suffer from lag. Plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have twin turbos now. I don't hear anybody complaining about lag...... BD
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    I don't want to argue, but if you truly believe the modern turbochargers DON'T have turbo lag, you are dellusional since the exhaust gases must be routed back into the turbine. I have driven the 535i recently and it clearly has a small lag in throttle response.  Walter Rohrl recently was interviewed and stated that inspite of the variable turbine geometry, the lag in the Porsche 911 turbo S makes him choose the GT3 RS over the 911 turbo S. So clearly either him and I are living in 1992 or you simply have a lack of understanding here. The throttle response in supercharged car will always be better no matter how much they try and "reduce" the lag in turbo cars. 
    B
    Show me a review where modern turbos are taken to task over turbo lag. Good luck with that. These cars are so powerful, you won't notice it, or it's not worth whining about. BD
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    I gave you the reference to 2011 interview of the legend and Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl. Look it up! Although, he was comparing it to a naturally aspirated engine rather than supercharged engine. Though, there is nothing wrong with people being OK with turbo lag. You clearly lacked knowledge in subject matter, yet you called me out for "being in 1992". If I am in 1992 then so is the racing legend and Porsche lead test engineer Walter Rohrl.
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    Here is more proof regarding the F10 BMW M5 turbo lag: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1109_first_drive_2012_bmw_m5/viewall.html "The biggest disappointment with the M5 is turbo lag. Yeah, yeah, how typical that I'm complaining about a turbocharged M5. Actually, I'm not complaining about the fact that the M5 wears turbos: I'm complaining that the S63TU engine has so much more lag than the non-Valvetronic S63 did. In that silly X6M (and the slightly less silly X5M), the turbos were among the most responsive I've ever experienced. Not so in the M5 - the lag is significant enough that you have to drive around it." So there you have it. I could produce a lot more proof because factual I am correct. Period.
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      guest
    • February 23, 2013
    Centrifugal Supercharging does have lag. Roots style does not. Turbocharging is far from boring.
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      Thomas
    • March 26, 2012
    Turbo charged cars suck! How will Lexus make its car weigh less than the competition?
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    Turbocharging adds a lot of weight with the heavier internals, piping, plumbing and intercooling, it adds an additional 120 - 180 lbs depending on the implementation.
    B
    Add that and the V8 to the GS AWD, and it's still about 150-200 pounds less than a M5 BD
    B
    It's already lighter, in base form.  With AWD, the GS is still under 2 tons.  it's the lightest car in this class. The M5 is well over 4400 lbs BD
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    Thomas
  • March 26, 2012
There will be no GS F. Never.
    W
    Is that reverse psychology? aha
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      Mike DeLorca
    • March 26, 2012
    Why so negative ? LEXUS is moving in directions we will be so impressed beyond our imagination.   Keep positive !
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    This has to be the worst attempt at trolling I've ever seen.
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V10!!! V10!!! V10!!!
    М
    i like the idea of high end torque even with decreasing the displacement to 4.6 and power to 450hp Lexus now is not about huge number but about fun to drive that was the LFA message and that what appear clearly with ISF and the new GS-Fsport last thing a lot of different sources said it will be that 4.6L V10 and i do believe in that
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      05RollaXRS
    • March 26, 2012
    You mean low end torque. Detuning the engine to produce more low end torque to support additional weight will result in loss of high rpm torque (and its corresponding horsepower since horsepower is extrapolated from torque).
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    Yesu
  • March 26, 2012
Yeah turbocharged cars just don't have that responsiveness of naturally aspirated engines.. For example the 2GR-FE engine found certain Lexus & Toota vehicles is smoother, quieter, more velvety and unruffled then the 3.5L ecoboost and is faster considering how the ford is turbo and same size lol
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    Lexus LFA
  • March 26, 2012
how a bout new engine altogether 4.6 liter V8 with around 520 horse power lexus has never turbo charged and never will.
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      Thomas
    • March 26, 2012
    Why not 800 or even better, 5 000 HP?!
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    Considering there's a 4.6L V8 in the current LS, I don't think your idea would require a new engine. Still, it's more likely that the 5.0L from the IS F is a better fit.
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      Lexus LFA
    • April 1, 2012
    i get what you're saying but don't you think different levels of sport cars or luxury cars should have different engines. And i think the LS which is the flagship of lexus should have a engine no other lexus has. the flag ship is suppose to be the best the company can offer.
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    Brad
  • March 26, 2012
I hope(if they plunk this 'detuned' engine in the GS engine bay)they leave the 10 individual throttle bodies & dry sump oil system intact.Even if leaving the dry sump system isn't feasible,(probably $15 K or more for this part alone)please,please Lexus,leave those 10 individual throttle bodies intact.I guarantee that neither of the turbo engines in this post have the same responsiveness that the 1LR-GUE has!
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The GSF WILL be turbocharged, or supercharged, primarily to keep the costs in line.  And EPA CAFE considerations. The LFA engine will never get the car under $100k.  They have a great 5.0 in the ISF, but it's gonna need help to run in that class.  It makes too much sense to add a turbo package to it.   BD
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      Thomas
    • March 26, 2012
    This is Lexus. Not your local tuner-guys with caps and baggy pants. BO
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    Seriously, what are you even talking about?
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    Regardless of what this story says, I agree with you. I just don't see how a V10 GS F could be competitively priced.
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    Ljn71
  • March 26, 2012
I really don't care what approach they take to powering a GSF. V10,V8,turbo,na,etc. Whatever they do I know they will do it to perfection. I have absolute faith in Lexus engineering.
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    Jdaugherty
  • March 26, 2012
I did hear of a "monster" engine that is coming soon. I dont know what that means except to be expecting something that is going to be sick. Maybe this is it. That would be really cool.
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    Erich Kerner
  • March 26, 2012
First of all i would say Lexus needs a more powerfull engine for the GS before they add an GS-F to there model lineup.
    B
    The hybrid is more powerful, coming in May (Ad campaign starts with the NBA Playoffs) And they don't need two V8s BD
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    Actually, I think the opposite -- if Lexus has a GS F, there's no real need for a V8 in the standard model.
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      Erich Kerner
    • March 27, 2012
    So i learn from you guys there will be no "counterpart" from Lexus to the BMW 550i?? So at the end we will have three engine choises for the GS - 350, 450h, F model.
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    That's my personal belief, yes. Whether it's true or not is something else entirely. ;-)
    B
    550i and E500/550 don't sell in big numbers Neither did the GS460...... BD
  • Anonymous
  • March 26, 2012
GS-F would be awesome! BTW, fantastic picture. I love it :)
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    James
  • March 26, 2012
Lexus doesn't really need to care about CAFE with a high performance model.  CAFE is calclulated on volume of cars.  A low volume, low MPG car wouldn't impact them as bad as a LX 570 would. And yes, if we're talking "predictions", there will be a GS F as a 2015 model.
    B
    Problem is Karl has said, right here, that any car they make will have an eye towards CAFE.  It wouldn't be any worse than the current competition. A turbocharger would be a great way to keep a reasonable EPA rating, add the necessary power, and keep prices reasonable BD
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    I didn't see any mention of CAFE in Karl's comments.
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    James
  • March 26, 2012
Also, although Toyota doesn't have a recent history with forced induction outside of TRD, I wouldn't put it past them to create a forced induced engine in the near future.
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    BOSS
  • March 26, 2012
I'm 100% they will build a GS-F, if not I'll buy everyone here pizza.
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    Drock3800
  • March 26, 2012
A direct drop-in of the LFA V10 is impossible.  The engine itself has close to an $80,000 price tag, which would put any GS F model way out its competitions price points (think $150-160,000 base price).
    K
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      krew
    • March 27, 2012
    This is what I've always thought as well -- I don't see how detuning an engine would reduce the cost by any significant margin.
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For some reason, I've always dreamed of seeing the 5.0L with a blower. Give it say 10lbs of boost and you're laughing. There is very easy ways to bring the mass down to compensate the extra V8 and supercharger weight. The idea would be to keep the car around 4000lbs or less if possible without compromising the ride too much. 500hp/450lb-ft minimum is easily achievable.
    B
    This is what I'm thinkin'! Plus the LSF will need something, so give the GSF one turbo.  For the LSF, add one more! The easiest was to kill two birds with one stone ISF (2013):  NA 5.0 with 450HP GSF (2014):  5.0 with turbo 525HP LSF (2015):  5.0 with Twin-Turbo 600HP! BD
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      Mike DeLorca
    • March 27, 2012
    I think you nailed it here !   Your last two posts are right on......the ISF-GSF and LSF with  5.0 and  the HP boost on each one coupled possibly with Hybrid power. I truthfully think this is what we are going to see across the board.....BD has inside connections I think !
    L
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      Lexus LFA
    • April 1, 2012
    1. I don't know about the LS F 2. Between Lexus cars and Toyota cars they share enough engines 3. Lexus has never turbo charged and never will. 4. The GS F should have an altogether different engine
B
Don't be surprised if hybrid power is used.  Don't surprised at all! They provide great torque instantly, silently, and the ICE can act like a turbo/supercharger above 30 MPH! Lexus wants to put hybrids over anyway.  They really don't want to use turbos. But hybrid power would need to weigh less than 300 lbs, installed...... BD
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      Jake
    • March 27, 2012
    People need to realize that the engines have indeed changed. BMW just a few weeks ago released their "BMW Performance Line" which involves diesel powered engines for their very first time in motor sport. Hybrid sports car don't necessarily need to be boring or bland to drive, they perform well as the GS450h showed us, and they do have a good MPG.
B
Karl says the LF-LC is now a "50/50" shot to make production, based on it's positive feedback on the Auto Show Circuit http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-Listens-To-Feedback-And-Considers-Production-Of-LF-LC-Concept-69800/ BD
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      Jake
    • March 27, 2012
    That's definitely what Lexus needs to boost up his performance and coupe line. We haven't seen any coupe since the extinguished SC.
    S
    What they need is a win at LeMans with the TS303 and prove their superiority in terms of performance and hybrid technology. When they pull that off everyone will realize their untouchable and deserve to be the number one automotive brand in the world.
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    James
  • March 27, 2012
Wait for SEMA... hint hint
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      Jake
    • March 28, 2012
    What do you suggest? A GS F? Hybrid IS F? LF-LC production model? James, you gotta tell us your sources!
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    Matt
  • March 28, 2012
Lexus are heavily into hybrid technology. They already have a very potent 5L V8 in the IS-F, 416 BHP and 371 lb-ft Why turbo or supercharge when you can add massive amounts of torque with an electric motor? Would also improve fuel efficiency and emissions. The V10 in the LFA just would cost too much to use. I would love to see the following in both a GS-F and a possible LF-LC The IS-F 5L V8 + Hybrid giving easy 500+BHP with masses of instant Torque
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    Lexustechsa
  • April 1, 2012
TMG has already put turbos on the LS460 , maybe it is in preparation for the GS-F :)
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    Matt
  • April 3, 2012
ClubLexus has put up details,  http://www.clublexus.com/articles/gs-models/lexus-announces-new-gs-f-model-details.php

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