Next-Generation Lexus IS & IS F Sedans Coming in 2021?

I would only go for a hybrid or BEV IS but I am just one household in Canada. Premium gasoline is too expensive compared to the US.

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

corradoMR2 said

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

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Not going to lie, the Stinger GT (Limited) is on my list, badge be damned. The G70 is also a possibility, and I can go get either right now, but I'm waiting to see if Lexus will come through. Barring that, I'll take a look at the upcoming TLX Type-S.

The number one consideration for my upgrade is something with a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant and AWD, and it should be capable of 0 - 100 kmh in the 4.5 ~ 4.7 second range. After that, it's a matter of choosing one with the best projected reliability, and the price should not exceed the mid-range level (C43/S4/M340i range).

GNS said

Not going to lie, the Stinger GT (Limited) is on my list, badge be damned. The G70 is also a possibility, and I can go get either right now, but I'm waiting to see if Lexus will come through. Barring that, I'll take a look at the upcoming TLX Type-S.

The number one consideration for my upgrade is something with a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant and AWD, and it should be capable of 0 - 100 kmh in the 4.5 ~ 4.7 second range. After that, it's a matter of choosing one with the best projected reliability, and the price should not exceed the mid-range level (C43/S4/M340i range).

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Stinger GT AWD Limited can't be beat for the price (50k cdn), performance, quality, practicality, and styling. It turns heads every time I'm on the road. The German cars are nice but 25K more similarly equipped, and more common.

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The hardware for a competitive IS-F is already in place. 3.5L+ six cyl with 500+hp are very common place these days. Think the Acura NSX, the Ford GT, the GT-R, and all the 911s. Modern turbo engines don't have to trade drivability, economy, and NVH for power like in the old times. They just need to make sure the calibration is on point, strengthen the bottom end to take the extra torque, and obviously upgrade cooling. They may have to change the intercooler configuration since the current 'interwarmer layout' gives good packaging but won't handle high power well.

Honestly the Stinger for me is the supposed current era Mark-II/Chaser/Cresta

I still have some hope in Toyota / Lexus regarding the next Mark-X based Mazda and the IS

corradoMR2 said

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

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I'm really sorry, but if you're going from a Kia stinger which you consider to be great quality, to then considering a Model 3 makes me wonder why you ever went with a Lexus in the first place?

I've spent time with both of those vehicles. I was not even remotely close to impressed by the build quality, sound system, etc of the Tesla lineup, especially the model 3. The Kia stinger is like any other product trying to be what it's not, which isn't to say it's a bad car. I'm sure it's a great value for some people who want that combination of offerings, but having spent time in Genesis vehicles and the stinger... it's only skin deep.

The moment you start actually interacting with it, I guess unless you're not that particular about stuff, the illusion disappears for me.

I don't want a car with windows that rattle or parts that feel hollow. I don't want to deal with some cobbled together attempt at customer service. I guess I just find it interesting what sort of market Lexus has to deal with.

On one hand, you're expected to compete with these other dedicated luxury brands, while on the other you've somehow attracted a whole host of people who honestly can't distinguish between the inhouse capabilities of Kia and TMC when it comes to producing well built, higher end vehicles.

It must be frustrating and a challenge to deal with.

Again, I apologize if this comes off harsh but I just sort of get flabbergasted sometimes. The idea that people look at the G70 or whatever else and sit it and still walk away impressed just sort of stuns me, but I guess it is all relative.

Ian Schmidt said

That makes sense. The same tuner has a flash available that they claim makes the Lexus 2.0T much, much more powerful, although they don't talk about MPG with it. Interestingly, their Tacoma flash does improve both power and MPG, suggesting Toyota screwed up.

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Mappings of turbo engines that improve both performance and fuel efficiency or just performance while fuel efficiency remains unaffected are pretty common on tuner's market but there's a common belief they all introduce excessive wear and tear of components.

Lexus LS powertrain in IS-F does make sense especially with some sort of performance tune but with what exactly do they replace current V6? That rumored 2.4 turbo I4? What is that good for? 300hp/300ft-lb? Such a weird displacement and number of cylinders to go after usual suspects with 3.0 Twin Turbo V6s.

mediumhot said

Lexus LS powertrain in IS-F does make sense especially with some sort of performance tune but with what exactly do they replace current V6? That rumored 2.4 turbo I4? What is that good for? 300hp/300ft-lb? Such a weird displacement and number of cylinders to go after usual suspects with 3.0 Twin Turbo V6s.

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The 2.4/2.5T is meant to be a competitor to 2.0Ts, just like how the V6 IS350 is priced against competitors' 2.0Ts.

Honestly I don't know what to say but for 2.5T to be competitor to ZeGermans 2.0T something is just wrong, I am not able to digest that

Supposedly Toyota/Lexus always have a good surprises in their first year cycle engine, we will see what will they do

For engines, I have a feeling that Lexus is going to remain living in a vacuum, stay stubborn and be sure their "unique" approach is the best. I am expecting:

• 2.0T - a new DF engine, maybe around 260hp.
• 2.4T - new DF engine, up level option and replacement for the 3.5L V6, maybe around 330hp
• 3.5TT V6 - IS F
• Slot a hybrid in there somewhere, too.

Of course if introduced 4 years ago, the engines above would only be "competitive" in their segments but Lexus will surely be resolute in explaining that their research and development work made sure they have a superior solution. They won't.

Another point that @corradoMR2 hit on, and one that I've made before with regard to the LS: You can say what you want about product, but these extremely long lifecycles are sending people elsewhere and they simply don't come back. Most luxury buyers lease, and they don't want to lease the same car two or even three times. Think about an IS buyer since 2006... you'd have the same V6 engine family for the last ~14 years. Those people all left and went to the Germans or elsewhere. Same for the 10 year wait for an LS. The minimalist, cosmetic refreshes that change the interior shape of a headlight and tail light are not fooling anyone. Even the most pedestrian of car shoppers can tell it's the exact same thing with a different bow, and they go elsewhere. BBA are changing trims, special editions, engines, transmissions, colors, wheels AND the small cosmetic details which keeps their lease cycle alive.

If Lexus doesn't start hitting grand slams in terms of product and punctuality, they are going to slip from Tier 2 to Tier 3 and who knows what after that.

CRSKTN said

I'm really sorry, but if you're going from a Kia stinger which you consider to be great quality, to then considering a Model 3 makes me wonder why you ever went with a Lexus in the first place?

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Drive a recent Hyundai/Kia, this isn't like 1997 where Tiburons broke down driving off the dealer lot. Current Hyundai/Kia is at least as good as late 80s Toyota was, when they launched Lexus. I think Genesis will be formidable if they can manage to sort out the dealer situation.

I ain't gonna beat the Tesla dead horse. If going stupid fast is your primary thing, there are worse cars you can get. But at that point I don't understand ever owning any Lexus.

Ian Schmidt said

Drive a recent Hyundai/Kia, this isn't like 1997 where Tiburons broke down driving off the dealer lot. Current Hyundai/Kia is at least as good as late 80s Toyota was, when they launched Lexus. I think Genesis will be formidable if they can manage to sort out the dealer situation.

I ain't gonna beat the Tesla dead horse. If going stupid fast is your primary thing, there are worse cars you can get. But at that point I don't understand ever owning any Lexus.

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I have spent time in them, i'm not talking breaking down every 50 feet. They are fine vehicles for people whose needs and budget they fit, i'm sure. Consumers are fortunate.

That said, there is some middle ground between that and somehow addressing every build quality issue overnight and learning to produce high end vehicles. Again, i guess it's a matter of what your personal bar is for that stuff. I wasn't at all impressed by what I've seen, although i guess for some the value proposition might be hard to overlook depending on priorities.

I want this brand to do more stuff along the lines of the LY, go full on Japanese Luxury.

mikeavelli said

I doubt the IS F uses the LS V-6, its just a slug off the line and is not a F type engine. I like that rendering.

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The LS v-6 is not a slug. Remember that IS is significantly lighter and smaller than the LS. So if it puts out the same numbers 416hp and 442torq then it will be pretty quick. The only thing I'm worried about is that 10spd auto. They should have just kept it at the 8spd. It was bad enough trying to get through the 8 gears on the original IS-F.

TJ_Lexpert said

The LS v-6 is not a slug. Remember that IS is significantly lighter and smaller than the LS. So if it puts out the same numbers 416hp and 442torq then it will be pretty quick.

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As Lexus is still trying to comprehend, "slug" is relative. Among other high performance sedans like the M3 and C63, 0-60 in ~4.5 would indeed be sluggish, let alone the fact those numbers are not competitive at all on paper.

And as AMG and M are going to comprehend, being regulated out of existence sucks. They're high-performancing all of the things because this is probably the last complete generation of ICE, they don't have a solid grasp on electrification, and they're gonna need some reputation to live off of for a few years.

Meanwhile every German car I see on the road is still the base engine, and it's not like people here can't afford the upgrade.

CRSKTN said

I'm really sorry, but if you're going from a Kia stinger which you consider to be great quality, to then considering a Model 3 makes me wonder why you ever went with a Lexus in the first place?

I've spent time with both of those vehicles. I was not even remotely close to impressed by the build quality, sound system, etc of the Tesla lineup, especially the model 3. The Kia stinger is like any other product trying to be what it's not, which isn't to say it's a bad car. I'm sure it's a great value for some people who want that combination of offerings, but having spent time in Genesis vehicles and the stinger... it's only skin deep.

The moment you start actually interacting with it, I guess unless you're not that particular about stuff, the illusion disappears for me.

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No need to apologize. It's your opinion vs my ownership experience. ✌ I have owned 12 Lexus vehicles that includes the CT, HS, NX, UX, the sweet RC F, and multiple generations of the RX and IS. Add in the Stinger of late and I can provide credible feedback.
I love Lexus build quality and its what drew me in, and still today it is better than most including the Stinger though it is only incrementally better now. Lexus needs the next market/product differentiator and both build quality and styling are not going to be enough.

Badge aside, the Stinger is a formidable product which I won't get into in this thread as this is not the topic of discussion. I also won't get into the Model 3 discussion though I agree, its build quality is questionable at best... yet I ordered one. This is the second non-Lexus product in a row I will own which is a shocker to those that know me! The message from my actions in relation to the IS (this thread) is pretty clear and hopefully Lexus listens as I do care and want Lexus to succeed! Echoing @Gecko 's prior comments, even loyalists like myself can only hang on so much to LONG generations of existing Lexus cars when the competition is offering so much more, more quickly. I hope the 4IS will not be a generation behind when it comes out but instead packs tech AND performance (besides build quality and styling) to stay competitive. I am skeptical but still hopeful I may be in one in two years or so...

^ Any tips on how not to lose so much on the trade ins? You seem to change cars every 1-3 years.

I'm sure you will be happy with the Model 3 performance and may yours be one of those most reliable keepsakes.

corradoMR2 said

even loyalists like myself can only hang on so much to LONG generations of existing Lexus cars when the competition is offering so much more, more quickly.

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My family has one Lexus ('19 RX350) but I have never owned one. Based on my short experience with the brand and the RX350, I'd love to buy a Lexus for sure. Lexus would also love to get me in as a customer for life.

But I can't buy something that doesn't exist, namely a mid-range AWD sedan that competes against the C43, S4, and 340i, not to mention the G70, CT5-V, Q50 and TLX Type-S. Loyalists like yourself move on when the line up is left to stagnate, and potential newcomers to the brand are not given anything enticing enough to pull them in.

New fascias, sleeker styling and marketing don't work on potential new buyers like myself. I look at the powertrain first and it's still the same engine (more or less) from 2006, same ancient 6 speed (AWD), same 6 second 0 - 60 (mph). I like the reliability, the fact that it's made in Japan, the build quality and the looks, not to mention the badge prestige. But that's not enough to get me to buy one brand new.

So I'm hoping that Lexus will do good on the 4IS and not half-ass it just because SUVs/CUVs are ruling the top spot in the sales chart, which would be inexcusable.