Lexus USA Dealerships Want Large SUV “Escalade Fighter”

The Escalade is a tacky, tasteless, gin palace on wheels. Belonging to a brand that is going down the plughole fast.
Who wants to emulate that, and put off all your wealthy yet tastefully restrained clientele?

IMO, it's hard to make such a case when you have the full size, three-row LX, even though the LX's bones - as a true off-roader - are fairly compromised in terms of utility, gas mileage and packaging.

I suppose a Lexus version of the next gen Sequoia would make financial sense, but at what cost? $80k? $85k? The LX starts right there, too.

People thought the Sequoia and Land Cruiser could never coexist, so perhaps I am wrong. Even though I'm open to more SUVs, this seems crazy:

UX
NX
RX
RXL
GX
LF-1
Sequoia-based ute?
LX

What about an LX-L?

With the above layout, you'd have the RX, RXL, GX and LF-1 all sitting at "midsize" which seems insane to me.

Forget about Escalade. Lexus could definitely use a unibody GLS/X7 fighter that's more about luxury, spaciousness and on-road manners than off-road prowess.

^I think that could theoretically be the LF-1... if they decide to make it 3 rows. Or at least, a three row version.

Lexus needs a proper 3 row unibody SUV, from the ground up. The RX-L is an afterthought. This is what happens when a dealership pushes for something. You get a sub-par product. I'm sorry but the RX-L is a joke. The 3rd row is a joke. It barley has any to zero leg room and yet a Highlander, which shares its platform, manage 4 more inches on the same wheelbase and a smaller overall length.

To be frank, Lexus should have extended the production cycle on the 3rd gen RX until a proper 4th gen, 3 row RX is ready.

I don’t think we need a larger LX that baby is huge now a quicker LX could make a lot of sense. Also agree with the LF1 as X7 or what the Q8 now competitor. We do need that LF1 like now tho...

To expand on my previous post, I really do wonder how they will position and differentiate RX, RXL and LF-1, specifically. GX is an easier one, being BOF with a completely different personality.

Lexus is pretty good at building cars that look sporty, even if they don't exactly fulfill that proposition dynamically - NX and RX are great examples. RX also has a great interior, is "right size two row" for most people, and the V6 is decently peppy. There's also the hybrid. And an F-Sport package.

Even if it is RWD and marketed as a flagship vehicle, I'm not sure how much of a case there is for the LF-1 above the RX if they are similar in size. Keep in mind the next generation RX will move to TNGA and adopt the new Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD, as well as next gen powertrains and tech. Every other model that has been redesigned on TNGA has been a huge step up, so I think the 5th generation RX will be as well.

In fact, I think of this much like the ES and GS (while spwolf is sharpening his spear and looking up my address) debacle. Lexus thought they could differentiate them because the ES was the "entry level luxury" model while folks wanting sport would opt for a GS. Reality set in and people weren't willing to spend $10-15k more to get RWD, when many of the other execution points between both were similar.

Perhaps the best case is for the RX L to only live for this generation, and for the LF-1 to be a true three row vehicle to match up with the GLS and X7.

Why do people want the LF1 to have 3 rows? It’s supposed to be the flagship performance oriented “coupe” like SUV. Why can’t the LX get longer and become a proper Escalade fighter?

Also, why does Lexus need to have a SUV as big as the Escalade to compete in the segment?
Funny how people want Lexus to be unique and want them to just follow whatever everyone else are doing.
People want a big 3 row SUV but it doesn’t mean they want it as big as the Escalade. People still buy the GLS, Rover LWB and Q7 when they are all “smaller”, but no buyers will consider them as “less-than-Escalade”. The LX is 5080mm long and Escalade is 5179mm long. They aren't even that off from each other.

LF1 and LX can sit along side like Audi’s Q7 and Q8. Lexus can have 2 flagship SUVs with 2 different purposes you know?

Lastly, as much I don’t like the RXL, I doubt Lexus will kill their best selling nameplate.

JFB

The Escalade is a tacky, tasteless, gin palace on wheels. Belonging to a brand that is going down the plughole fast.
Who wants to emulate that, and put off all your wealthy yet tastefully restrained clientele?

Fake News.

Does anybody here really think they know more about what a potential Lexus customer is looking for, than the actual customer facing Lexus dealership?

zeusus

Fake News.

Does anybody here really think they know more about what a potential Lexus customer is looking for, than the actual customer facing Lexus dealership?

The actual dealerships think nobody wants the GS, which would be a controversial position here on LE (even though I think it's largely correct).

I think the LX is a direct competitor to the Escalade, at least size-wise. But the interior is not as luxurious as the Caddy interior imo, and there are not many LX units available (at least in NA) as there are Escalades. The Escalade is also less off-road oriented. Also, the Escalade and Navigator are both "big baller" icons in American culture.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion with Lexus enthusiasts because of the heritage of the LX lineup, but I think Lexus should focus less on making the LX off-road compatible, and more of a luxury SUV that is more family-friendly and more competitive with the GLS-Class, X7, Q7 and Escalade/Navigator. This will definitely increase sales for the LX because I am pretty sure that most buyers do not buy big luxury SUVs to go off-road (unless they're in the Middle East), but to haul around family. And since the LX isn't as good as it's competitors at doing that, most buyers will lean towards German or American competitors. An LX-L may also help to compete with the Escalade ESV and Navigator L.

meth.ix

I think the LX is a direct competitor to the Escalade, at least size-wise. But the interior is not as luxurious as the Caddy interior imo, and there are not many LX units available (at least in NA) as there are Escalades. The Escalade is also less off-road oriented. Also, the Escalade and Navigator are both "big baller" icons in American culture.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion with Lexus enthusiasts because of the heritage of the LX lineup, but I think Lexus should focus less on making the LX off-road compatible, and more of a luxury SUV that is more family-friendly and more competitive with the GLS-Class, X7, Q7 and Escalade/Navigator. This will definitely increase sales for the LX because I am pretty sure that most buyers do not buy big luxury SUVs to go off-road (unless they're in the Middle East), but to haul around family. And since the LX isn't as good as it's competitors at doing that, most buyers will lean towards German or American competitors. An LX-L may also help to compete with the Escalade ESV and Navigator L.

problem with that opinion is that LX sells a lot in middle east, and thus due to popularity there and other harsh market, it is better seller worldwide than LS.

Hence now they are building LF1 that is not similar to LX.

Ian Schmidt

The actual dealerships think nobody wants the GS, which would be a controversial position here on LE (even though I think it's largely correct).

I understand why people say no to keeping the GS and I haven’t driven the new ES but when you drive the old ES to GS no way in hell would you want the ES compared to GS unless price and maybe size? The Gs sounds better handles better and especially the F sport looks better. My two cents.

Absolutely agree the LX and LF1 could both live together easily. LF1 if performance is key no way they should do a third row and I think they need it to be quicker than the SUVs they have. We have 2 third rows already build the LF1 to be quick and sporty!

James

I understand why people say no to keeping the GS and I haven’t driven the new ES but when you drive the old ES to GS no way in hell would you want the ES compared to GS unless price and maybe size? The Gs sounds better handles better and especially the F sport looks better. My two cents.

Absolutely agree the LX and LF1 could both live together easily. LF1 if performance is key no way they should do a third row and I think they need it to be quicker than the SUVs they have. We have 2 third rows already build the LF1 to be quick and sporty!

i think it is likely that LF1 will be sporty suv with token 3rd row and LX will stay similar to today but more practical for US market.

In any case, in 2017 they sold over 30k LX's, there is no way they will make it a CUV. It is very successful vehicle for them, just not US/EU as primary market for it.

It is just like how GX is not big in US, and sells absolutely nothing anywhere else.

I've suggested in the past that Lexus make an LX 570 L based off the Sequoia. Then I got to thinking that Lexus could also take the Sequoia platform and extended it further to the same length as a Chevy Suburban but keeping the width and height same as the Sequoia.

LX 570
LX 570 L (Sequoia based)
LX 570 XL (Sequoia based extended to same length as Suburban)

The RX should be RWD based and off-road capable like Range Rover and sporty like an X5 M. The LF1 looks like a QX70, which is an RX rival. The RX is a FWD rival of the X5, GLE and Cayenne. They are all flagship CUVs. GLS and X7 are nothing else than stretched GLE and X5. They are not more luxurious. If the next RX gets LS quality interior as we see with UX, it will be on par with the Germans. RX and RX-L RWD based and powerful will be exactly the same equivalent as the those. The LF1 looks like being that car, a RWD RX. LX is just a plush Land Cruiser that Russians and Arabs like, but it has more to do with status symbol than with the outdated product itself. Americans just need an updated Sequoia, and luxurious Lexus version.

Levi

The RX should be RWD based and off-road capable like Range Rover and sporty like an X5 M. The LF1 looks like a QX70, which is an RX rival. The RX is a FWD rival of the X5, GLE and Cayenne. They are all flagship CUVs. GLS and X7 are nothing else than stretched GLE and X5. They are not more luxurious. If the next RX gets LS quality interior as we see with UX, it will be on par with the Germans. RX and RX-L RWD based and powerful will be exactly the same equivalent as the those. The LF1 looks like being that car, a RWD RX. LX is just a plush Land Cruiser that Russians and Arabs like, but it has more to do with status symbol than with the outdated product itself. Americans just need an updated Sequoia, and luxurious Lexus version.

So X5 has LS quality interior? Interesting. And RX should be offroad vehicle that is as sporty as X5 M.
Should it have wings too?

:)

And LX is just status symbol, not 60 years of heritage of Land Cruiser and not unbreakable luxury yacht for worst places to drive on earth?

meth.ix

I think the LX is a direct competitor to the Escalade, at least size-wise. But the interior is not as luxurious as the Caddy interior imo,

Out of curiosity, have you been in both?

Escalade has nice quality leather, but that is really it. Nothing like a traditional column shifter on a $100k SUV :joy:

Gecko

Out of curiosity, have you been in both?

Escalade has nice quality leather, but that is really it. Nothing like a traditional column shifter on a $100k SUV :joy:

What's wrong with a column shifter though. Every single Mercedes-Benz vehicle uses it except for some of the manual models in Europe. It makes it clean and tasteful.

For Americans, column shifters fairly scream "70s Detroit truck".

Well unfortunately LX is bought almost exclusively as a status symbol just like the G-wagen.

The reason they became status symbols though, is that they are unbreakable go-anywhere land yachts.

And from that point of view it already competes fine with the Escalade, which is also bought as a status symbol even though it's almost literally a body kit on a Suburban.

F1 Silver Arrows

What's wrong with a column shifter though. Every single Mercedes-Benz vehicle uses it except for some of the manual models in Europe. It makes it clean and tasteful.

Mercedes' execution is much nicer and more sophisticated.

In any regards, it doesn't hurt to have more room in an LX to compete against the Escalade, which is most known as being a SUV limo for it's space both front and in the back.

All Lexus would have to do is come up with a next gen LX in standard form and also long form, which is easily doable. Same concept as they had with the RX, only on a larger scale.

JFB

The Escalade is a tacky, tasteless, gin palace on wheels. Belonging to a brand that is going down the plughole fast.
Who wants to emulate that, and put off all your wealthy yet tastefully restrained clientele?

Why don't you repeat what you said to The Rock? Would you say that to a multi-billionaire action star?

https://www.tmz.com/2018/03/19/dwayne-johnson-the-rock-buys-father-cadillac-escalade/

That article read it was written by a crackhead

Dwayne Johnson is not a multi-billionaire. He is obviously a multi-millionaire...it's his money and he can spend it how he wants to...

I've had a LX for near two years and you know what I love about it. That it ISN'T an Escalade. Its relatively rare, a true off-roader and badass. I've fit 8 in it many times and while snug it does what it needs to do. Everywhere in Miami or Atlanta (hell every city) its full of black and white Escalades. Now they are well done today but not for me at all. Even QX's they are all over. Rarely do you see a LX or a G-Wagon.

Dealers want sales. So this is a really big issue and when they say "Escalade" they mean they want something like it ala QX, GLS, Naviator etc.

Now all those vehicles are bigger than the LX but they are priced much cheaper as a base price. Even the 5 seat LX starts 10k more than an Escalade. You can lease a QX for $599 a month like a GX or RX.

My only solution would be keep the LX as something like the G-Wagon. Pricey but for those that want a rugged SUV and want to be different. Then you still offer your new bigger Unibody SUV.

Nothing needs to be canceled. Look at how many SUV's the German offer. Keep the LX, make something bigger and cheaper, call it the VX whatever you want and keep everyone happy!

An ADDITIONAL 20k off!?!

View attachment 3151

$20k off a 'Sclade makes it a Suburban with a *free* body kit ;)