EuropeLexus UX: First Generation

Lexus Files Trademark for UX 300e in Europe

Lexus UX Crossover

Lexus has filed a UX 300e trademark with the European Intellectual Property Office, suggesting the brand’s newest crossover may be first to debut a new electric powertrain.

Since the introduction of the first Lexus hybrid, a lowercase ‘h’ has been added to the nameplate to indicate a gas-electric powertrain. As an example, the ES 300h is a 2.5L engine mated with an electric motor. With the lowercase ‘e’ in this new trademark, it looks like Lexus will reuse the naming convention with a new electric powertrain. The first thought is a battery-electric vehicle (BEV), but the inclusion of ‘300’ muddies the waters.

No other BEV manufacturer outside of Tesla uses numbers to indicate power or performance. Instead, it is common practice to affix the letter ‘e’ to the plug-in hybrid version of existing models (e.g. Mercedes C350e, BMW 330e).

An earlier report from Chunichi Shimbun in Japan suggested that production of the UX-EV will start in 2020, with an initial run of 15,000 units built at the Toyota Motor Kyushu factory.

Chunichi Shimbun also claimed that first-year sales will be limited to Japan, China, and Europe — all regions where competitors are making a concentrated push with electric vehicles and market share is most important.

[Source: Autoguide]

Comments
Executive Vice President Shigeki Terashi had said at a briefing in Tokyo, Toyota 'll introduce BEV with the following order : China, Japan, India, U.S. and dead last Europe.
Will take very long time to introduce in Europe. Maybe about 2025.
Finally, incredibly positive news!
Just hope this is an BEV and not a PHEV...

Looking forward this development.
isanatori
Executive Vice President Shigeki Terashi had said at a briefing in Tokyo, Toyota 'll introduce BEV with the following order : China, Japan, India, U.S. and dead last Europe.
Will take very long time to introduce in Europe. Maybe about just before 2025. Who knows.
I don't think so. Europeans are more potential buyers than Indians. Could you post source link for this.
L
  • L
  • December 18, 2018
'300' does not automatically mean ICE. It is already a long time that numbers are not equivalent to displacement, but rather power/price hierarchy the powertrains. Look at Audi's new nomenclature where numbers range from 30 to 70 and represent approximate power according to a certain scale. With a more probable future where cars will be ICE, HEV, PHEV, REXEV, BEV and HFCEV, abstract numbers do make sense for customers not to get lost with a wide variety of technically different powertrains. Overall most customers look at power numbers and options, if money is available, they will tend to get the highest/latest number, without really understanding what those numbers represent. Good to see 'e' will be the top version of UX, should their be no UX-F.
Levi
'300' does not automatically mean ICE. It is already a long time that numbers are not equivalent to displacement, but rather power/price hierarchy the powertrains. Look at Audi's new nomenclature where numbers range from 30 to 70 and represent approximate power according to a certain scale. With a more probable future where cars will be ICE, HEV, PHEV, REXEV, BEV and HFCEV, abstract numbers do make sense for customers not to get lost with a wide variety of technically different powertrains. Overall most customers look at power numbers and options, if money is available, they will tend to get the highest/latest number, without really understanding what those numbers represent. Good to see 'e' will be the top version of UX, should their be no UX-F.
Most certainly 300e means full electric vehicle. That means +250hp and +400nm. It's fun to think that 300 could meen the range but it's unlikely. 300km is not good and it would be stupid to use miles (No offence). I think TMC will nail their first BEV since they have experience based on RAV4 EV. Also I hope that next gen NX has full electric option. If the pricing is correct 40-50k euros UX300e will sell like cakes. Compact EV SUV segment is very intresting now with E-Pace and upcoming Infiniti EV SUV. I think we will see UX300e at Tokyo Motor Show 2019 and Geneva 2020 and launching before Tokyo olympics. Toyota has stated that as official Olympics sponsor the event is excellent opportunity to showcase their technology.
flexus
Most certainly 300e means full electric vehicle. That means +250hp and +400nm.
300e will definitely not mean 250hp for a BEV. A BEV with that amount of power will carry a 350 or even 400 'displacement equivalence'. It is very likely to use a 142 kW electric motor used by the ix4 EV, and a 190hp motor is about right to be called 'equivalent to 3.0L engine'. The 188hp NX hybrid is called 300h (which is an over-rating, by the way).
ssun30
300e will definitely not mean 250hp for a BEV. A BEV with that amount of power will carry a 350 or even 400 'displacement equivalence'. It is very likely to use a 142 kW electric motor used by the ix4 EV, and a 190hp motor is about right to be called 'equivalent to 3.0L engine'. The 188hp NX hybrid is called 300h (which is an over-rating, by the way).
IS300 and RX300 have almost 240hp and torque of ~350nm. Electrict motor has more torque than turbo and even diesel. IS220d had 400nm of torque.
C
Although a bit late, I'm very please Lexus is jumping in the electrification bandwagon. No choice to survive...

Now if only they don't forget N.America please!!
Maybe it has as much to do with normal-range acceleration as it does with raw power figures. The UX 200 is rated at 8.9s and the 250h at 8.6s 0-60mph. Maybe the "300e" would target the low-8s, whatever power ratings may be required for that. I know it's a very different vehicle, but the ES300h is rated at 8.1s.
Why are they following Germans in nomenclature? 330e, E350e are all PHEVs btw.
ssun30
300e will definitely not mean 250hp for a BEV. A BEV with that amount of power will carry a 350 or even 400 'displacement equivalence'. It is very likely to use a 142 kW electric motor used by the ix4 EV, and a 190hp motor is about right to be called 'equivalent to 3.0L engine'. The 188hp NX hybrid is called 300h (which is an over-rating, by the way).
do you mean that they will use exactly the same motor as ix4 or similar?

I agree it will be similar, they will try to limit the power to get more miles out of it... And I dont think it will be anything special when it comes to power/range, they are pretty conservative company.
Levi
'300' does not automatically mean ICE. It is already a long time that numbers are not equivalent to displacement, but rather power/price hierarchy the powertrains. Look at Audi's new nomenclature where numbers range from 30 to 70 and represent approximate power according to a certain scale.
flexus
Most certainly 300e means full electric vehicle. That means +250hp and +400nm. It's fun to think that 300 could meen the range but it's unlikely.
My hesitation is this -- the first BEV from Lexus will be a huge deal, and I don't think they want to bury the tech with unnecessary numbers. Every other mass market manufacturer has created a "sub-brand" for their pure electrics, why would Lexus do any different? Something like UX-EV or UX-E makes a bigger impression to me.

That said, I hope I'm wrong.
i am sure it will be a plugin with 40 mile range under WLTP... it makes sense, it will work great for them...
It's great that Lexus is expanding by adding an EV variant to the UX line, hopefully Lexus adds more EV's to the rest of the line-up. Lexus seems very slow to expand their line-up.

UX 200 (2.0 liter I4, 168 hp)
UX 250h (2.0 liter I4 hybrid - equivalent to 2.5 liter, 176 hp)
UX 300e (fully electric - equivalent to 3.0 liter, 188-190 hp?)

Looking at the hybridization of the Lexus line most people don't even know Lexus makes let alone has hybrid vehicles. Now that the HS 250h and CT 200h are gone North America only has the ES 300h and LS 500h as hybrid sedans, LC 500h as a hybrid coupe, and UX 250h, NX 300h and RX 450h as hybrid CUV's. Lexus should bring the IS 300h to increase hybrid sedan awareness. Bring in the RC 300h to sit along side the LC 500h.
krew
My hesitation is this -- the first BEV from Lexus will be a huge deal, and I don't think they want to bury the tech with unnecessary numbers. Every other mass market manufacturer has created a "sub-brand" for their pure electrics, why would Lexus do any different? Something like UX-EV or UX-E makes a bigger impression to me.

That said, I hope I'm wrong.
I agree this could be the plug-in version of the 250h. Considering the 2.0 hybrid system is currently constrained by battery power, a power bump due to a plug-in class battery could be expected. The Prius Prime doesn't get more power than the regular Prius because it's motor constrained.

The more interesting question would then be the battery. Toyota did launch a new 10.5 kWh traction battery made by Panasonic for the ChDM Corolla PHV, and it remains to be seen whether the Prime will receive this upgrade for the facelift.

EDIT: I highlighted the Panasonic part because I previously suspected Toyota sources its Li-ion batteries from an indigenous company, but it seems they are buying from Panasonic's China division.
S
I bet the UX 300e will target the Kia Niro EV and I'm expecting something more than 200 hp and a 0-62 mph in less than 8 seconds.
Sadman
I bet the UX 300e will target the Kia Niro EV and I'm expecting something more than 200 hp and a 0-62 mph in less than 8 seconds.
Not sure what would it have to do with Niro, i guess it is small? Otherwise it is a Lexus, and petrol engine is going to be much stronger than in Niro and also more integrated due to PSD vs dual clutch.

It should be plenty fast if it is plugin with extra 40-50 electric hp... question is how will Lexus utilize it, since so far they only cared about mpg.

@ssun30 if Toyota wanted, Prime could be a lot faster... it uses 71hp from batteries in EV mode, right? While regular Prius uses something like 22hp from batteries? But they focus on MPG, not power so they dont combine the both for maximum acceleration.
S
spwolf
Not sure what would it have to do with Niro, i guess it is small? Otherwise it is a Lexus, and petrol engine is going to be much stronger than in Niro and also more integrated due to PSD vs dual clutch.
I was talking about the EV Niro, not the hybrid.

I think that the hypotetical EV UX is going to have at least the same power figures of the Niro (wich has more than 200 hp in the all electric model).
Sadman
I was talking about the EV Niro, not the hybrid.

I think that the hypotetical EV UX is going to have at least the same power figures of the Niro (wich has more than 200 hp in the all electric model).
EV UX will likely same similar numbers to EV CHR, which is around there.... @ssun30 knows it better since it is released in China first.

But this is 99% going to be a PHEV... so 146hp gas engine + around 70hp extra from battery at the same time, hence 300e moniker.
spwolf
@ssun30 if Toyota wanted, Prime could be a lot faster... it uses 71hp from batteries in EV mode, right? While regular Prius uses something like 22hp from batteries? But they focus on MPG, not power so they dont combine the both for maximum acceleration.
The Prime's battery pack is capable of discharging at 80kW while the total motor output in EV mode is 71kW by combining the power from both MG1 (22kW) and MG2 (51kW) via a sprag clutch in the P710 transaxle. This operating mode is not available in hybrid mode which means MG1 cannot add power by draining the battery, serving only as the generator and engine speed regulator. The hybrid transaxle on the Prius is very optimized that components are almost sized to exactly match each other with pretty thin margins (outside of the inherent reliability margins, of course). This allows a very compact, lightweight, and efficient hybrid system at the cost of flexibility. There's very little power to gain (a few kW at most) from the extra battery power so they just rate the Prime the same as the regular Prius. The hybrid systems in the UX and the Camry, on the other hand, do have some healthy margins for more power capacity so they could get an uprating with a more powerful battery pack.

And no it has nothing to do with MPG. If anything having more power to the motors benefits MPG because it reduces the burden on the ICE.
ssun30
And no it has nothing to do with MPG. If anything having more power to the motors benefits MPG because it reduces the burden on the ICE.
it has everything to do with MPG... it can not recover that much energy by braking so you would get less miles out of EV mode, and also PHEV mode would end up going into "limp" (pure hybrid) mode much sooner.
spwolf
it has everything to do with MPG... it can not recover that much energy by braking so you would get less miles out of EV mode, and also PHEV mode would end up going into "limp" (pure hybrid) mode much sooner.
What you just said is nonsensical. I was referring to MPG in HV mode, and yet you somehow brought up 'less range in EV mode' and 'sooner into limp mode in PHV mode'; neither of these cases have anything to do with MPG. You picked the wrong word and it was an honest mistake so just stop trying to defend it. If you said 'if they had higher power rating in EV mode the car could have less range' and I would respectfully agree. But we were talking about the combined power rating in HV mode.
ssun30
What you just said is nonsensical. I was referring to MPG in HV mode, and yet you somehow brought up 'less range in EV mode' and 'sooner into limp mode in PHV mode'; neither of these cases have anything to do with MPG. You picked the wrong word and it was an honest mistake so just stop trying to defend it. If you said 'if they had higher power rating in EV mode the car could have less range' and I would respectfully agree. But we were talking about the combined power rating in HV mode.
it has everything to do with mpg... if you spend electricity to accelerate, that you cant recover, then later on your gas engine will run more.
This is why current TMC hybrids never got more than 40ish hp from batteries, as they cant recover more and doing 60-70hp would make it disbalanced in regular hybrid mode.

This is why german phevs with 10 mile range were so silly to have 100 hp battery output in hybrid mode, and then later got 20 mpg max when that initial 10 miles got spent and they cant do hybrid mode properly anymore.

So all these times TMC has been carefully balancing energy consumption making sure they spend what they can recover, so drivers dont have "limp" mode or very poor mpg mode, where battery was spent on faster acceleration and then nothing is left so sometimes you have +70 electric hp and sometimes just 10, or sometimes your engine would run 45% but if you spent your energy on acceleration it would then run 75%.

Generally speaking, TMC hybrids were always so balanced that you dont feel the difference when battery is "full" or "empty" and that there is always enough energy recovered when braking and coasting/stopping to provide for the balanced experience.

Not sure if you ever actually owned a hybrid? It is easier to experience than explain.

S
Top