Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan

Sakura

Of course, all respect going around, this is just a friendly chat. :)

In the past - the Lexus IS250 has always marked as the base-level entry level buy while the IS350 was the top trim. Essentially - there is 2 trims levels similarity at the time - the Germans (BMW) had two trim levels too (328i and 335i).
However - has time passed. BMW's 335i gotten faster thus creating a "Pre-M" "Pre-AMG" "Pre-Sports model car" competition. So then BMW needed cars to fill the lower void, that's when the 320i and 330i came in.
This in turn make the Lexus IS300 and IS350 change the competition they are in. We can't assume competition is always fixed. As in - if they competed there before - they gotta compete there again.

So its not that the Lexus IS300 doesn't compete with the BMW 320i or the Lexus IS350 doesn't compete with the 330i - is that Lexus doesn't have a car to compete with the M340i, C43 AMG, S4, and Red Sport Q50.
^ ---The only way for this to happen is if they offered a "IS400". If they decide to push the IS300 and IS350 up the scale, it would effectively make both cars more expensive. Meaning they are shooting over the Lexus ES price-line. Lexus has always kept the IS/ES price relatively close together. Also - it cost more in development to change 2 engine specs rather than introducing one new engine option.
This is why - I think the IS300/IS350 will remain unchanged. Its either they introduce a "IS400" or the return of the IS-F. This is the most business savvy and "bean-counter" way to do it.

But then again - my money is on the IS-F because:
They have been quoted many times they aren't going to chase the Germans anymore. From a car enthusiasts perspective, I would love a TTV6 IS400. I'll buy it the day of. But would the mass public? Probably not. Like most 3 Series - the most sold is the low-end 3 Series.
This is why I think a TTV6 IS-F is more likely - its more bean-counter.

Wasn't that what the IS350 Fsport was for? The "Pre-Sport Model" as you put it? Lexus has failed in this arena. I think the Fsport is a flop with the US because the performance just wasn't there. When my bro in law's 428 MSport runs circles around the 3IS350 Fsport (my 2IS350 is only slightly faster than his)proves that lexus has dropped the ball and got left behind.

The TTV6 would serve well to fill that pre F gap and have the ISF be ridiculously competitive if not dominant. I say boost the IS200t output to about 270hp Is300 at 300hp IS400 Fsport at 385-400hp and the ISF at 500hp+ then Lexus can take the reigns but now Lexus is not even in the conversation.

Hell Alfa Romeo came in with a sick entrant in the Giulia QF (I wouldn't buy one though for its reliability issues).

Lexus needs to step up or get left out

Now I know I'm just dreaming with what I posted above though lol... One can dream...

joepac

Wasn't that what the IS350 Fsport was for? The "Pre-Sport Model" as you put it? Lexus has failed in this arena. I think the Fsport is a flop because the performance just wasn't there. When my bro in law's 428 MSport runs circles around the 3IS350 Fsport (my 2IS350 is only slightly faster than his)proves that lexus has dropped the ball and got left behind.

The TTV6 would serve well to fill that pre F gap and have the ISF be ridiculously competitive if not dominant. I say boost the IS200t output to about 270hp Is300 at 300hp IS400 Fsport at 385-400hp and the ISF at 500hp+ then Lexus can take the reigns but now Lexus is not even in the conversation.

Hell Alfa Romeo came in with a sick entrant in the Giulia QF (I wouldn't buy one though for its reliability issues).

Lexus needs to step up or get left out

Now I know I'm just dreaming with what I posted above though lol... One can dream...

No. The IS350 F-Sport isn't what I was referring to as the "Pre-Sport model". When I was talking about the "Pre-Sport Model", I was talking about the car that is before the M/AMG type cars. IE: M340i is the Pre-M3 and C43 AMG is the pre C63 AMG.

"F-Sport" has always been a exterior dress up package, like the AMG Line and M-Sport package. They hold no performance upgrades.

Per BMW's official website - the 2019 BMW 430i runs a 0-60 time of 5.5 seconds while the 2019 Lexus IS350 runs a 5.6 second. I wouldn't consider that "running circles". The cars are pretty evenly matched, considering the Lexus IS350 is cheaper.

So you are asking for a: Lexus IS300 at 270HP
Lexus IS350 at 300HP
and Lexus IS400 at 385-400HP?

Why would they do that when the Lexus IS350 is over 300HP? This is why I think they'll keep the 8AR/2GR the same while introducing the "IS400" with the TTV6. Its the cheapest way to do it.
If you increase the power of the IS300, IS350, and also introduce a IS400, it'll cost money to do and cost more for all of the cars. Toyota are a bunch of bean-counters. They'll refuse to do this. The likely more business efficient way is to just introduce the IS400, if they do it.

Yes - we are all dreaming. Not just you - I want a IS400 too. And a TTV6 as well. I would buy it the day of release. However - I'm trying to stay realistic to what Toyota is, which is a slow moving company.
The Germans already passed Toyota/Lexus when Toyota introduced the 3G Lexus IS. When they refused to change the engine in the 2014 model and then barely changed it in the 2016 model. It shows they don't care. It shows they know what their demographics is and what will sell. This is why the Lexus ES for the 2019 model didn't get an "exclusive" Lexus engine and kept the simple V6. (Yes, yes. I know its based on the Camry/Avalon. However - they can still change up the engine for the Lexus model - especially since how they brag about how the Lexus ES will compete against the C300/A4/3 Series in the press release) They didn't change it because they know it'll still sell regardless. Like how the 2014 Lexus IS sold almost the same number of cars with the engine being the same engine as the 2006 Lexus IS. Crazy, right?

Sakura

No. The IS350 F-Sport isn't what I was referring to as the "Pre-Sport model". When I was talking about the "Pre-Sport Model", I was talking about the car that is before the M/AMG type cars. IE: M340i is the Pre-M3 and C43 AMG is the pre C63 AMG.

"F-Sport" has always been a exterior dress up package, like the AMG Line and M-Sport package. They hold no performance upgrades.

Per BMW's official website - the 2019 BMW 430i runs a 0-60 time of 5.5 seconds while the 2019 Lexus IS350 runs a 5.6 second. I wouldn't consider that "running circles". The cars are pretty evenly matched, considering the Lexus IS350 is cheaper.

So you are asking for a: Lexus IS300 at 270HP
Lexus IS350 at 300HP
and Lexus IS400 at 385-400HP?

Why would they do that when the Lexus IS350 is over 300HP? This is why I think they'll keep the 8AR/2GR the same while introducing the "IS400" with the TTV6. Its the cheapest way to do it.
If you increase the power of the IS300, IS350, and also introduce a IS400, it'll cost money to do and cost more for all of the cars. Toyota are a bunch of bean-counters. They'll refuse to do this. The likely more business efficient way is to just introduce the IS400, if they do it.

Yes - we are all dreaming. Not just you - I want a IS400 too. And a TTV6 as well. I would buy it the day of release. However - I'm trying to stay realistic to what Toyota is, which is a slow moving company.
The Germans already passed Toyota/Lexus when Toyota introduced the 3G Lexus IS. When they refused to change the engine in the 2014 model and then barely changed it in the 2016 model. It shows they don't care. It shows they know what their demographics is and what will sell. This is why the Lexus ES for the 2019 model didn't get an "exclusive" Lexus engine and kept the simple V6. (Yes, yes. I know its based on the Camry/Avalon. However - they can still change up the engine for the Lexus model - especially since how they brag about how the Lexus ES will compete against the C300/A4/3 Series in the press release) They didn't change it because they know it'll still sell regardless. Like how the 2014 Lexus IS sold almost the same number of cars with the engine being the same engine as the 2006 Lexus IS. Crazy, right?

No, I said boost the IS200t output to about 270hp Is300 at 300hp IS400 Fsport at 385-400hp and the ISF at 500hp+ but I'm sure the bean counters won't do this.

I may have used hyperbole with "runs circles" but the fact remains that the 428 MSport is supposed to be on the level of the IS200t Fsport (or vice versa being the "entry level" model though a 328msport will prob be better comparison with same results) though that's why I brought up the comparison to the 350 because the lower model BMW (428) already beats the higher Model Lexus (350).

I was going to buy a 2014 IS350 Fsport but couldn't see how it is much better than my 2IS350,theb thought about the RCF but it's a porker. Was waiting on the next ISF or if (please God) they come out with a TTV6 I'll be standing in Line with you! Lol


You are right though lexus doesn't care about the enthusiast as long as blue hair realtors continue to buy their RX and ES models.

joepac

No, I said boost the IS200t output to about 270hp Is300 at 300hp IS400 Fsport at 385-400hp and the ISF at 500hp+ but I'm sure the bean counters won't do this.

I may have used hyperbole with "runs circles" but the fact remains that the 428 MSport is supposed to be on the level of the IS200t Fsport (or vice versa being the "entry level" model though a 328msport will prob be better comparison with same results) though that's why I brought up the comparison to the 350 because the lower model BMW (428) already beats the higher Model Lexus (350).

I was going to buy a 2014 IS350 Fsport but couldn't see how it is much better than my 2IS350,theb thought about the RCF but it's a porker. Was waiting on the next ISF or if (please God) they come out with a TTV6 I'll be standing in Line with you! Lol


You are right though lexus doesn't care about the enthusiast as long as blue hair realtors continue to buy their RX and ES models.

I think there is a bit of confusion here. The Lexus IS200T doesn't exist anymore. Its called the Lexus IS300.
Essentially - what Lexus has now is a Lexus IS200T, a detuned V6 IS300 AWD, and a Lexus IS350.

The thing is - we keep looking at it from comparing it to BMW or MB perspective. We have to stop looking at it that way, is where I'm getting at. People are saying Lexus fell behind because BMW line up changed and Lexus should reflect that.
What happened is - BMW's 335i became too fast and turned into the 340i - which is pretty much the "Pre-M car". This left BMW with two voids to fill at the lower end. That's why they created the 320i and 330i for the US market which is the Lexus IS200T(300)/350 competitor. Its like this because Lexus doesn't have a 340i competitor anymore.

If Lexus introduced a IS400, it would effectively compete with the new M340i. The M340i is rumored to have 380hp/369tq. Lexus IS400 can copy that 100% with a detuned TTV6 from the LS.
While at the same time, keeping the Lexus IS350 (with the 2GR engine) as it is to compete with the 330i.
While also at the same time, keeping the Lexus IS300 (8AR turbo) as it is to compete in the entry-level market range. (A4 Ultra, 2.0T Infiniti, and the base-level I4 TLX)

The point is - its likely the 8AR and 2GR will still stay the same because nothing really needs to be done to those to keep it relatively competitive to the low/mid tier options.

Think of the 8AR as the BMW 318i/320i in Europe. The entry-level base model that gets people into the brand. I think we are all pushing ourselves up a tier effectively by comparing the Lexus IS300 to something it never competed against in the first place.
From a price, performance and amenities stand-point, the Lexus IS300 (formerly the 200T) never competed against the 328i/428i. Because they were more similar to the IS350.

Sakura

I think there is a bit of confusion here. The Lexus IS200T doesn't exist anymore. Its called the Lexus IS300.
Essentially - what Lexus has now is a Lexus IS200T, a detuned V6 IS300 AWD, and a Lexus IS350.

The thing is - we keep looking at it from comparing it to BMW or MB perspective. We have to stop looking at it that way, is where I'm getting at. People are saying Lexus fell behind because BMW line up changed and Lexus should reflect that.
What happened is - BMW's 335i became too fast and turned into the 340i - which is pretty much the "Pre-M car". This left BMW with two voids to fill at the lower end. That's why they created the 320i and 330i for the US market which is the Lexus IS200T(300)/350 competitor. Its like this because Lexus doesn't have a 340i competitor anymore.

If Lexus introduced a IS400, it would effectively compete with the new M340i. The M340i is rumored to have 380hp/369tq. Lexus IS400 can copy that 100% with a detuned TTV6 from the LS.
While at the same time, keeping the Lexus IS350 (with the 2GR engine) as it is to compete with the 330i.
While also at the same time, keeping the Lexus IS300 (8AR turbo) as it is to compete in the entry-level market range. (A4 Ultra, 2.0T Infiniti, and the base-level I4 TLX)

The point is - its likely the 8AR and 2GR will still stay the same because nothing really needs to be done to those to keep it relatively competitive to the low/mid tier options.

Think of the 8AR as the BMW 318i/320i in Europe. The entry-level base model that gets people into the brand. I think we are all pushing ourselves up a tier effectively by comparing the Lexus IS300 to something it never competed against in the first place.
From a price, performance and amenities stand-point, the Lexus IS300 (formerly the 200T) never competed against the 328i/428i. Because they were more similar to the IS350.

Ahhh yes right again. I forgot lexus changed their nomenclature.

Yes I think we are on the same page. Lexus needs the TTV6 in the IS lineup to compete but we'll see how it goes.

Gecko

The competitive set for IS 300 was never 320i, like the competitive set for IS 350 was never 325i/330i. This has just become the case because Lexus has not done anything to help the IS during it's lifecycle.

Next time around, IS needs a refined 2.0T as well as some engine variant with ~400hp. IS with 2.0T will compete against 330i, C300, A4 2.0T, etc. IS with ~400hp will compete against 340i, C43 AMG, S4, etc. IS F needs to have 500hp+ to compete with M3, C63, etc.

So you think that buyers dont compare prices of the cars but rather numbers of the back? So they compare 5k-10k more expensive 3 series to similar numbered 3IS?

Not sure about that...

IS will never be successful as 3/C/A4 because these guys have huge European/German market where they are fleet vehicles like Camry... amount of sales they do, which enables them to do many other things with it, is simply different to IS... Lexus has that with ES, RX and NX... and will likely never have it with IS.

That does not mean that IS cant be good competitor to C/3/A4... New 3 is nothing special at all. If Lexus released a vehicle with such all-plastic interior it would have been called a dead brand, instead you have same people who harp on Lexus for not having enough wood, love silver plastic in new 3. It is weird.

Most of the sales in this market happen on base models with base engines... Sure, Lexus needs to get smarter with PR and do IS500 F-Sport model so every journalist can test it and call it a great car... reality is that that engine, even if priced great vs similar BMW/C, will likely sell 5% of the IS sales.

Watching at Paris how BMW unveils their new 3 series, where every car is not only a top spec, but also with optional equipment and where maybe 1% of them will be like that in Europe, while at the same time Toyota shows new Rav4 mid-spec trips and Corolla with cloth seats... these are companies on completely different level of PR towards their customers.

krew

krew

Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan



View the original article post

So checked Lexus IS300h in Japan.

New model compared to old:
- 6 hp extra from petrol engine
- 100kg less weight.

if the GS is leaving, maybe we can expect a IS450h.

bogglo

if the GS is leaving, maybe we can expect a IS450h.

The Crown gets the 500h multistage. I'm 95% confident an IS500h is planned as the flagship (non-F) model outside of US.

spwolf

So you think that buyers dont compare prices of the cars but rather numbers of the back? So they compare 5k-10k more expensive 3 series to similar numbered 3IS?

Not sure about that...

IS will never be successful as 3/C/A4 because these guys have huge European/German market where they are fleet vehicles like Camry... amount of sales they do, which enables them to do many other things with it, is simply different to IS... Lexus has that with ES, RX and NX... and will likely never have it with IS.

That does not mean that IS cant be good competitor to C/3/A4... New 3 is nothing special at all. If Lexus released a vehicle with such all-plastic interior it would have been called a dead brand, instead you have same people who harp on Lexus for not having enough wood, love silver plastic in new 3. It is weird.

Most of the sales in this market happen on base models with base engines... Sure, Lexus needs to get smarter with PR and do IS500 F-Sport model so every journalist can test it and call it a great car... reality is that that engine, even if priced great vs similar BMW/C, will likely sell 5% of the IS sales.

Watching at Paris how BMW unveils their new 3 series, where every car is not only a top spec, but also with optional equipment and where maybe 1% of them will be like that in Europe, while at the same time Toyota shows new Rav4 mid-spec trips and Corolla with cloth seats... these are companies on completely different level of PR towards their customers.

This. When comparing a car, people think consideration of price, features, and performance. This all makes the thing relative to each other. This is why the Lexus IS200T (300) is seen as a competitor to the 320i. Within that competition, the Lexus IS is a much superior car.

Agreed. The Lexus IS will never be as sucessful as the 3/C/A4 because of the fleet cars you mentioned. Its not just in Europe/Germany. Here in the USA - we have rental 3 Series and C-Class. To match this on top of insane lease deals for stripper models, you'll sell tons.
This is not to say the Lexus IS is not a good car - it just doesn't benefit from fleet sales or good lease deals.
This is why I was saying earlier - Lexus highly doesn't care about the Lexus IS competition relative to the 3/C/A4. Because they know they'll never catch it. They are going to sell what they know they can sell to their target demographic.

Yup. Agreed and also true. A IS400 or IS500 F-Sport will be nothing but a PR and journalist opt. It'll do well in terms of reviews but the sales will be extremely low. This is one of the reasons why I think Toyota will do a IS-F rather than a IS400/500. Both a IS-F and IS400 will net low sales but I think Toyota will more likely produce the IS-F.
Its like - if both draw low sales - make the one that gets the best press.. which will be the IS-F with TTV6.

The thing is - BMW sells their cars like accessories. All of their showcase cars are top of the line while none of them will be at dealerships. Similarity to the Mercedes Benz.
I was a MB dealership earlier this month with my friend because hes car shopping. When he asked for a C300 with near loaded options, the sales rep told him we don't carry cars that are optioned that high.
Majority of MB/BMW cars are optioned very limited at dealers because that's what people buy.

To be honest, I would rather have the 4IS FSport handling/dynamics to be 90% of the G20 330i (stock) while maintaining its reliability record (repairs probably costing 1/3 to 1/4 over a 10 year period).

I think the main gripe is competitors have all migrated to turbo charged engines but I hear the issue with turbo lag is still there but car makers are tinkering to make the lag less noticeable. So now the 3IS feels too lethargic compared to its competitors when it won 1st place in a couple of C/D comparos in 2013 and 2014.

Also fuel efficiency is not very good compared to the competitors as well

I read many manufacturers are moving to 48V mild hybrid systems so they can make use of electronic controlled dampers, water pumps and other gizmos. Since Toyota is a leader in hybrid technology, maybe they should electrify most of the 4IS line up to compete on initial acceleration and MPG. I know Toyota or Lexus hybrids' electronic AWD system isn't as good as their mechanical one but even the exotics are starting to use electrification to get better acceleration. Also the new e-AWD in the RAV4H is said to provide better traction to the rear axle. Toyota should introduce true torque vectoring in the new 4IS hybrid, if that's even possible, haha.

2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport
First place: Habemus Papem!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-lexus-is350-f-sport-page-4

internalaudit

To be honest, I would rather have the 4IS FSport handling/dynamics to be 90% of the G20 330i (stock) while maintaining its reliability record (repairs probably costing 1/3 to 1/4 over a 10 year period).

I think the main gripe is competitors have all migrated to turbo charged engines but I hear the issue with turbo lag is still there but car makers are tinkering to make the lag less noticeable. So now the 3IS feels too lethargic compared to its competitors when it won 1st place in a couple of C/D comparos in 2013 and 2014.

Also fuel efficiency is not very good compared to the competitors as well

I read many manufacturers are moving to 48V mild hybrid systems so they can make use of electronic controlled dampers, water pumps and other gizmos. Since Toyota is a leader in hybrid technology, maybe they should electrify most of the 4IS line up to compete on initial acceleration and MPG. I know Toyota or Lexus hybrids' electronic AWD system isn't as good as their mechanical one but even the exotics are starting to use electrification to get better acceleration. Also the new e-AWD in the RAV4H is said to provide better traction to the rear axle. Toyota should introduce true torque vectoring in the new 4IS hybrid, if that's even possible, haha.

I would really like an 4IS AWD BEV though and I don't mind paying close to fully spec'd out IS350 pricing for one. At least I know I will be saving $2-3k in fuel costs a year since gasoline is more expensive in Canada than it is in most of the United States.

2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport
First place: Habemus Papem!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-lexus-is350-f-sport-page-4

I still have that print issue in my den because it was the first time Lexus esp the IS came up 1st in a comparo that J can remember Lexus should have built on that win... BUT! Lexus rested on their laurels and the IS became a flash in the pan rather than igniting something great.

My main disappointment/dislike of this rendering is how much the rear door / C-pillar area reminds me of a 1st-gen Mazda3:



Also, some commentary on the numbers suggested here:

krew

Compared to the current model, the next-generation IS length and wheelbase would grow by 4cm, with all other measurements staying the same. Also mentioned is a 2.5L engine with 181 horsepower, which makes absolutely no sense and I’m choosing to ignore.

- That 2850mm (112.2") wheelbase is actually 20mm / 0.8" shorter than the LC coupe's. I don't see Lexus doing that, and would be very surprised to see 4IS on a wheelbase any shorter than the LC's 2870mm / 113". If it grows into a GS replacement role, it may be another 50mm longer than that as on the latest GA-N Toyota Crown (2920mm / 115").

- When it comes to specs beyond exterior dimensions, note that the above refers to the IS 300h (hybrid) version.

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

- The 2487cc engine displacement confirms the obvious: the current IS 300h's current 2494cc 2AR-FSE hybrid powertrain would give way to the newer Dynamic Force A25A-FXS hybrid powertrain from the latest Toyota Crown (and, of course, mounted transversely in the latest Toyota Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES 300h).

- As to that 184ps / 181 hp figure, it seems to be a modest increase on the 176 hp rating for the A25A-FXS hybrid as applied in the current ES 300h without taking into account the battery's contribution. (In the 7ES 300h, the official numbers are 176hp engine + 39hp battery = Total Hybrid system Horsepower 215 hp).

"the only changes are with the front and rear bumpers, making this rendering seem more like a mid-cycle refresh"

To me the changes on the car are massive, the front and back look completely different, even the swoop on the side is major. The only serious similarity I see is the area where the doors meet the windows. A mid cycle refresh means minimal changes, this is massive and looking at release trends 2021 looks right for a complete redesign. As the article said, there's not much wrong with the current design of the IS, so why not use it as inspiration for the next one?

To be honest though, I hope they fix how the trunk looks. It looks kind of awful - really high up and really straight all the way around. It doesn't fit well with the otherwise angular and sharp (in a curved way) look of the car. Hope they end up with a design of the spoiler area similar to the current gen IS.

Other than that though, I'm liking the look! I did like the side/door area more from the previous magazine drawings from a couple months back.

Joaquin Ruhi

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

There is no need to use UK media site to compare to Japanese specs... Check lexus.jp, and IS300h is listed as 1680 kg and this is what is comparable to Japanese media writings.

https://lexus.jp/models/is/spec_price/specification/is300h/

Interesting comments the one that stands out for me refers to the interior of the IS. I could not agree more it seriously needs a quality upgrade to get near Audi finish levels. Also agree why the delay? It appears minimal changes overall so bring it on the IS is simply not longer the competitor it used to be in the market place. Come on Lexus get going!

joepac

Wasn't that what the IS350 Fsport was for? The "Pre-Sport Model" as you put it? Lexus has failed in this arena. I think the Fsport is a flop because the performance just wasn't there.

You think its a flop because it didn't serve your needs.

In the real world, the IS F Sport is a huge success with overwhelming number of customers opting for the package over base. The success of IS and GS F Sport justified execution of the package into the rest of the models we see today.

Perhaps your brother is just a better driver. :cool::fist:

Joaquin Ruhi

- As to that 184ps / 181 hp figure, it seems to be a modest increase on the 176 hp rating for the A25A-FXS hybrid as applied in the current ES 300h without taking into account the battery's contribution. (In the 7ES 300h, the official numbers are 176hp engine + 39hp battery = Total hybrid system 215 hp).

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

Joaquin Ruhi

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

spwolf

There is no need to use UK media site to compare to Japanese specs... Check lexus.jp, and IS300h is listed as 1680 kg and this is what is comparable to Japanese media writings.

Agreed. There's several different methods to determine the weight of a vehicle. There's dry weight (completely empty, no fluids), wet weight (all fluids serviced), fuel quantity (empty, half-tank, full-tank), and fully-loaded GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) used in the US. There's also differences in equipment such as safety systems that could vary by regions. All-in-all, it can be rather confusing.

Anyways, 17.4 gallons or ~66l of gasoline would account for 104lb or 47kg difference, assuming 6lb/gal.

ssun30

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

I was under the impression that the reason why the US has a lower octane number on the pump is because we use a different standard to test the fuel. Eu/*** use Research Octane Number (RON) while USA averages that with the Motor Octane Number (MON), which gives a much lower value compared to RON. Generally, our 87/91 is roughly equal to 91/95 in Japan.

ssun30

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

i think the difference is in hp measurement, not fuel (at least usually). EPA has revised hp testing procedure maybe 8-10 years ago, and all the hp ratings went down.

Looking forward to it. Still think the 2IS is timeless.

Levi

Looking forward to it. Still think the 2IS is timeless.

Gotta agree. The first gen is almost as classy, but has some of that 90s roundness design going on. The 3rd gen is a bit wacky for my taste.

TheNerdyPotato

I was under the impression that the reason why the US has a lower octane number on the pump is because we use a different standard to test the fuel. Eu/Japan use Research Octane Number (RON) while USA averages that with the Motor Octane Number (MON), which gives a much lower value compared to RON. Generally, our 87/91 is roughly equal to 91/95 in Japan.

I specifically said 91RON so I don't have to bring up AKI. The point stands, the most prolific fuel type used in US is Regular (91RON), same for China ('92'RON, which is really 91). But EU and Japan has long moved to 95RON as their 'Regular' fuel option and engines in these markets make a few hp more as a result. The exception will be when the engine specifically requires Premium in US, like the 2GR-FSE.

ssun30

I specifically said 91RON so I don't have to bring up AKI. The point stands, the most prolific fuel type used in US is Regular (91RON), same for China ('92'RON, which is really 91). But EU and Japan has long moved to 95RON as their 'Regular' fuel option and engines in these markets make a few hp more as a result. The exception will be when the engine specifically requires Premium in US, like the 2GR-FSE.

Ah, derp. That reminds me that I've read a few articles about the US automakers pushing for 91AKI to be the new regular gas.

zeusus

You think its a flop because it didn't serve your needs.

In the real world, the IS F Sport is a huge success with overwhelming number of customers opting for the package over base. The success of IS and GS F Sport justified execution of the package into the rest of the models we see today.

Perhaps your brother is just a better driver. :cool::fist:



In other news, the new renderings look good. Current IS still looks good even when put up with competitors of the same year. C class has the worst design in the segment.

If performance is your #1 priority, you'll be happier in a German car. It's just your mechanic will be happier you're in it too ;-)

Ian Schmidt

If performance is your #1 priority, you'll be happier in a German car. It's just your mechanic will be happier you're in it too ;-)

Performance is not my #1 priority but it is prob #1. 5 or #2.

That's my dilemma. My 2010 IS350 has been trouble free for 8 years and 88k miles and the performance is pretty good. I'm never selling this car BTW.

I was just hoping lexus follows it up with and upgraded model. But yeah I don't do German cars (or any European) anymore because I don't want to put my mechanic's kids through college hahaha.

joepac

Did I pee on your lawn bro? Lol damn...

And it was my brother in law...:p

My point was not about the IS350 Fsport being a flop in sales but in the performance arena (save the win in the C&D article "Habemas Papem"). Is the IS Fsport cars so much better than their non fsport counterparts? It is all marketing. The only option I like about the Fsport IS350 is the gimmicky gauge cluster and maybe the suspension. I own a 2010 IS350 Luxury edition. Almost bought the sport edition (in 2010 this would have been the equivalent to the F sport model as the options were almost identical in 2011 when the fsport debuted) but it lacked cooled seats, the rear sunshade and my ML sound system. And the driving experience was almost identical except for a smidge tighter suspension in the sport. So I went with the luxury model.

I have driven both the 3is fsport and non fsport (both 200t and 350) and can't tell a huge difference though I admit I haven't put either through their paces but in general were near identical to me.

So the fsport may be a success because it sold more but again from a performance standpoint it's negligible In my opinion (can we have those around here?) and when I buy a car it is for my needs.

Yours was spared of the carbon deposit build up? I think that's one reason I would not consider the 2IS and I guess because I also want ACC but even the 3IS only comes with high speed dynamic cruise control.

And these Lexus vehicles hold their value up in Canada that I would probably just wait for the 4IS and see whether it is worth getting instead of a used 3IS I can still buy extended warranty on.

Too bad the first electric vehicle will be the UX. I wish it was the IS, seeing how the Model 3 sales is doing quite well for now.

internalaudit

Yours was spared of the carbon deposit build up? I think that's one reason I would not consider the 2IS and I guess because I also want ACC but even the 3IS only comes with high speed dynamic cruise control.

And these Lexus vehicles hold their value up in Canada that I would probably just wait for the 4IS and see whether it is worth getting instead of a used 3IS I can still buy extended warranty on.

Too bad the first electric vehicle will be the UX. I wish it was the IS, seeing how the Model 3 sales is doing quite well for now.

IIRC 350's didn't have the carbon deposit issue.