Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan

Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.

Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.

Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Joaquin Ruhi

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

1) Possibly. It could make Toyota think twice and offer an AWD format for the Camry/Avalon. If Camry/Avalon get AWD, ES will follow suit. But I would still tread lightly on this point. It really depends on how well the Altima sells overall and how much of those units are AWD. If the Altima, even with an AWD model, doesn't even break close to Camry numbers. Toyota will still edge it out and refuse to offer an AWD option. Because they are still net profiting high sales w/o the AWD.
The only way I see Camry/Avalon/ES having AWD is if the demand is there. Sadly - there is no demand for this. The Camry/Avalon/ES base doesn't crave this.
Due to the TNGA-K, Toyota can bring AWD at anytime. The biggest question is if they will. My money is no.

2) Interesting point. You still have to see if its profitable to make AWD versions of each specific car. I don't believe Toyota will add something to a car because they have the ability to do so. Toyota will do it when they feel like its time or their research says so. You can see this pattern throughout their line-up. They have done some things that seem slow and questionable in car enthusiasts eyes but it draws big dollar.
If Toyota's research concludes that Camry/Avalon/ES would benefit from an AWD, they will add it.

RRR

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Based off my experience as a long time Toyota investor - I agree - that is definitely wishful thinking.

Toyota's business model is very conservative and unique. They want to milk the hell out of something before even considering replacing it or "improving it". The engines in the 2G Lexus IS was used for 10 years plus before Toyota was like "Okay. Lets change it."

Personally - I wish there is a Lexus IS400 or 450 too. That would make it a C43 AMG, 340i, S4, and Q50 RS competitor. But do I think it will happen? Probably not. Toyota cares about the profit margin. They know majority of Lexus IS sales are base engine models. The question is - would it be worth it for them to develop a TTV6 for the Lexus IS for low returns. Would it please enthusiasts? Yes. Would it please share holders? Probably not.

Second thing to keep in mind - we are in a SUV crazed market. With the UX coming out and the rumored high end crossover being in the pipeline, Lexus is probably more focused on SUVs rather than high-performance Sedans.

Last thing to keep in mind is that Lexus recently said they don't want to keep their line-up bloated like their German rivals. This means - they are more likely to cut models than add models. And when Lexus add models - it'll likely be profitable models (SUVs and Hybrids perhaps). Lexus getting on the EV train is likely as well.

Regarding your last comment - yes/no. It depends how you look at it. Yes - the vehicles tend to be more expensive when you have to add individual options in order to build it - like Mercedes Benz.
However - when you do fix packages - that's where the real money comes in. Because when you let people do options - they can option it just the 2-3 things they like. When the packages are fixed, they can offer a much of stuff in one package (some you might not want) for a higher price. Take a look how the Lexus ES is tiered.

Joaquin Ruhi

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

1) Possibly. It could make Toyota think twice and offer an AWD format for the Camry/Avalon. If Camry/Avalon get AWD, ES will follow suit. But I would still tread lightly on this point. It really depends on how well the Altima sells overall and how much of those units are AWD. If the Altima, even with an AWD model, doesn't even break close to Camry numbers. Toyota will still edge it out and refuse to offer an AWD option. Because they are still net profiting high sales w/o the AWD.
The only way I see Camry/Avalon/ES having AWD is if the demand is there. Sadly - there is no demand for this. The Camry/Avalon/ES base doesn't crave this.
Due to the TNGA-K, Toyota can bring AWD at anytime. The biggest question is if they will. My money is no.

2) Interesting point. You still have to see if its profitable to make AWD versions of each specific car. I don't believe Toyota will add something to a car because they have the ability to do so. Toyota will do it when they feel like its time or their research says so. You can see this pattern throughout their line-up. They have done some things that seem slow and questionable in car enthusiasts eyes but it draws big dollar.
If Toyota's research concludes that Camry/Avalon/ES would benefit from an AWD, they will add it.

RRR

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Based off my experience as a long time Toyota investor - I agree - that is definitely wishful thinking.

Toyota's business model is very conservative and unique. They want to milk the hell out of something before even considering replacing it or "improving it". The engines in the 2G Lexus IS was used for 10 years plus before Toyota was like "Okay. Lets change it."

Personally - I wish there is a Lexus IS400 or 450 too. That would make it a C43 AMG, 340i, S4, and Q50 RS competitor. But do I think it will happen? Probably not. Toyota cares about the profit margin. They know majority of Lexus IS sales are base engine models. The question is - would it be worth it for them to develop a TTV6 for the Lexus IS for low returns. Would it please enthusiasts? Yes. Would it please share holders? Probably not.

Second thing to keep in mind - we are in a SUV crazed market. With the UX coming out and the rumored high end crossover being in the pipeline, Lexus is probably more focused on SUVs rather than high-performance Sedans.

Last thing to keep in mind is that Lexus recently said they don't want to keep their line-up bloated like their German rivals. This means - they are more likely to cut models than add models. And when Lexus add models - it'll likely be profitable models (SUVs and Hybrids perhaps). Lexus getting on the EV train is likely as well.

Regarding your last comment - yes/no. It depends how you look at it. Yes - the vehicles tend to be more expensive when you have to add individual options in order to build it - like Mercedes Benz.
However - when you do fix packages - that's where the real money comes in. Because when you let people do options - they can option it just the 2-3 things they like. When the packages are fixed, they can offer a much of stuff in one package (some you might not want) for a higher price. Take a look how the Lexus ES is tiered.

Joaquin Ruhi

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

1) Possibly. It could make Toyota think twice and offer an AWD format for the Camry/Avalon. If Camry/Avalon get AWD, ES will follow suit. But I would still tread lightly on this point. It really depends on how well the Altima sells overall and how much of those units are AWD. If the Altima, even with an AWD model, doesn't even break close to Camry numbers. Toyota will still edge it out and refuse to offer an AWD option. Because they are still net profiting high sales w/o the AWD.
The only way I see Camry/Avalon/ES having AWD is if the demand is there. Sadly - there is no demand for this. The Camry/Avalon/ES base doesn't crave this.
Due to the TNGA-K, Toyota can bring AWD at anytime. The biggest question is if they will. My money is no.

2) Interesting point. You still have to see if its profitable to make AWD versions of each specific car. I don't believe Toyota will add something to a car because they have the ability to do so. Toyota will do it when they feel like its time or their research says so. You can see this pattern throughout their line-up. They have done some things that seem slow and questionable in car enthusiasts eyes but it draws big dollar.
If Toyota's research concludes that Camry/Avalon/ES would benefit from an AWD, they will add it.

RRR

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Based off my experience as a long time Toyota investor - I agree - that is definitely wishful thinking.

Toyota's business model is very conservative and unique. They want to milk the hell out of something before even considering replacing it or "improving it". The engines in the 2G Lexus IS was used for 10 years plus before Toyota was like "Okay. Lets change it."

Personally - I wish there is a Lexus IS400 or 450 too. That would make it a C43 AMG, 340i, S4, and Q50 RS competitor. But do I think it will happen? Probably not. Toyota cares about the profit margin. They know majority of Lexus IS sales are base engine models. The question is - would it be worth it for them to develop a TTV6 for the Lexus IS for low returns. Would it please enthusiasts? Yes. Would it please share holders? Probably not.

Second thing to keep in mind - we are in a SUV crazed market. With the UX coming out and the rumored high end crossover being in the pipeline, Lexus is probably more focused on SUVs rather than high-performance Sedans.

Last thing to keep in mind is that Lexus recently said they don't want to keep their line-up bloated like their German rivals. This means - they are more likely to cut models than add models. And when Lexus add models - it'll likely be profitable models (SUVs and Hybrids perhaps). Lexus getting on the EV train is likely as well.

Regarding your last comment - yes/no. It depends how you look at it. Yes - the vehicles tend to be more expensive when you have to add individual options in order to build it - like Mercedes Benz.
However - when you do fix packages - that's where the real money comes in. Because when you let people do options - they can option it just the 2-3 things they like. When the packages are fixed, they can offer a much of stuff in one package (some you might not want) for a higher price. Take a look how the Lexus ES is tiered.

Joaquin Ruhi

Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?

1) Possibly. It could make Toyota think twice and offer an AWD format for the Camry/Avalon. If Camry/Avalon get AWD, ES will follow suit. But I would still tread lightly on this point. It really depends on how well the Altima sells overall and how much of those units are AWD. If the Altima, even with an AWD model, doesn't even break close to Camry numbers. Toyota will still edge it out and refuse to offer an AWD option. Because they are still net profiting high sales w/o the AWD.
The only way I see Camry/Avalon/ES having AWD is if the demand is there. Sadly - there is no demand for this. The Camry/Avalon/ES base doesn't crave this.
Due to the TNGA-K, Toyota can bring AWD at anytime. The biggest question is if they will. My money is no.

2) Interesting point. You still have to see if its profitable to make AWD versions of each specific car. I don't believe Toyota will add something to a car because they have the ability to do so. Toyota will do it when they feel like its time or their research says so. You can see this pattern throughout their line-up. They have done some things that seem slow and questionable in car enthusiasts eyes but it draws big dollar.
If Toyota's research concludes that Camry/Avalon/ES would benefit from an AWD, they will add it.

RRR

Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

Based off my experience as a long time Toyota investor - I agree - that is definitely wishful thinking.

Toyota's business model is very conservative and unique. They want to milk the hell out of something before even considering replacing it or "improving it". The engines in the 2G Lexus IS was used for 10 years plus before Toyota was like "Okay. Lets change it."

Personally - I wish there is a Lexus IS400 or 450 too. That would make it a C43 AMG, 340i, S4, and Q50 RS competitor. But do I think it will happen? Probably not. Toyota cares about the profit margin. They know majority of Lexus IS sales are base engine models. The question is - would it be worth it for them to develop a TTV6 for the Lexus IS for low returns. Would it please enthusiasts? Yes. Would it please share holders? Probably not.

Second thing to keep in mind - we are in a SUV crazed market. With the UX coming out and the rumored high end crossover being in the pipeline, Lexus is probably more focused on SUVs rather than high-performance Sedans.

Last thing to keep in mind is that Lexus recently said they don't want to keep their line-up bloated like their German rivals. This means - they are more likely to cut models than add models. And when Lexus add models - it'll likely be profitable models (SUVs and Hybrids perhaps). Lexus getting on the EV train is likely as well.

Regarding your last comment - yes/no. It depends how you look at it. Yes - the vehicles tend to be more expensive when you have to add individual options in order to build it - like Mercedes Benz.
However - when you do fix packages - that's where the real money comes in. Because when you let people do options - they can option it just the 2-3 things they like. When the packages are fixed, they can offer a much of stuff in one package (some you might not want) for a higher price. Take a look how the Lexus ES is tiered.

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Sakura

The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Subaru could move away from SymmetricAWD with ElectricRWD. But it will likely remain SymmetricFWD, because of its Boxer engine.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Subaru could move away from SymmetricAWD with ElectricRWD. But it will likely remain SymmetricFWD, because of its Boxer engine.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Subaru could move away from SymmetricAWD with ElectricRWD. But it will likely remain SymmetricFWD, because of its Boxer engine.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Subaru could move away from SymmetricAWD with ElectricRWD. But it will likely remain SymmetricFWD, because of its Boxer engine.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Yes. yes! This. Thank you for pointing this out - I have missed this fact.

Its very true. Toyota has investments in Subaru. Its highly likely they don't want to take away Subaru's market share of AWD. We would still have to calculate the profits to see if Toyota will benefit more from staying away from Subaru's turf.

I also want to add Toyota AWD systems aren't partially good. They are okay at best if I'm honest. Toyota's AWD system just doesn't have the selling power of say a Audi, Acura or Subaru AWD system. This could further deter Toyota away from adding AWD to a lot of their vehicles.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Yes. yes! This. Thank you for pointing this out - I have missed this fact.

Its very true. Toyota has investments in Subaru. Its highly likely they don't want to take away Subaru's market share of AWD. We would still have to calculate the profits to see if Toyota will benefit more from staying away from Subaru's turf.

I also want to add Toyota AWD systems aren't partially good. They are okay at best if I'm honest. Toyota's AWD system just doesn't have the selling power of say a Audi, Acura or Subaru AWD system. This could further deter Toyota away from adding AWD to a lot of their vehicles.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Yes. yes! This. Thank you for pointing this out - I have missed this fact.

Its very true. Toyota has investments in Subaru. Its highly likely they don't want to take away Subaru's market share of AWD. We would still have to calculate the profits to see if Toyota will benefit more from staying away from Subaru's turf.

I also want to add Toyota AWD systems aren't partially good. They are okay at best if I'm honest. Toyota's AWD system just doesn't have the selling power of say a Audi, Acura or Subaru AWD system. This could further deter Toyota away from adding AWD to a lot of their vehicles.

TheNerdyPotato

Another reason why Toyota hasn't made many AWD cars may be because they own a 20% stake of Subaru. Since AWD is one of Subaru's main selling points, Toyota may be trying to not step on their toes. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it could be interesting to see an IS with a Subaru-sourced AWD drivetrain. This wouldn't work with some GA-L cars, which I've read are FMR layout, because the engine is always ahead of the front axle on Subaru powertrains.

Yes. yes! This. Thank you for pointing this out - I have missed this fact.

Its very true. Toyota has investments in Subaru. Its highly likely they don't want to take away Subaru's market share of AWD. We would still have to calculate the profits to see if Toyota will benefit more from staying away from Subaru's turf.

I also want to add Toyota AWD systems aren't partially good. They are okay at best if I'm honest. Toyota's AWD system just doesn't have the selling power of say a Audi, Acura or Subaru AWD system. This could further deter Toyota away from adding AWD to a lot of their vehicles.

krew

Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to Grow in Size?

Mag-X reports a wheelbase bigger than the current GS.

View the original article post

krew

Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to Grow in Size?

Mag-X reports a wheelbase bigger than the current GS.

View the original article post

krew

Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to Grow in Size?

Mag-X reports a wheelbase bigger than the current GS.

View the original article post