Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan

TheNerdyPotato

This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.

The Dynamic Force is a less power dense design than the GR/UR. It loses quite a bit of peak torque (100N.m/L) compared to the older GSE (close to 110N.m/L). However the usable torque should be comparable in real world usage. Still the DF motors will struggle against turbocharged competition for hauling and towing.

Turbocharging just makes sense for utility vehicles. We shouldn't be surprised that every heavy duty combat vehicle out there has a turbodiesel. And modern turbo gasolines are basically turbodiesels that rev higher and burn cleaner.

Joaquin Ruhi

might its 4th-gen successor be the first to use a naturally aspirated V35A-FKS in North America, Japan and Oceania?

I agree with ssun30 that a turbocharged A24/25A-FTS would be better suited for China's engine displacement-based laws than the V35A. and I imagine that Europe's primary powertrain lineup will continue to be hybrid, most likely the latest Toyota Crown's choice of A25A-FXS and 8GR-FXS.

Whether the US market definitively want a naturally aspirated V6 is somewhat debatable. After all, the best sellers in the segment are all equipped with forced-induction. I don't see 3-series buyers complaining the N55 and B58 are not naturally aspirated.

The problem is, again, what new capabilities can a hypothetical V35A-FKS bring? If, as many on this forum suggest, the current IS350 lacks power compared to the competition (which is true), will the V35A-FKS solve this problem at all? The 2IS introduced the 2GR-FSE which is a huge upgrade in capabilities vs. the old 2JZ-GE on the 1IS/Altezza. It was almost a 50% power increase, along with more compact packaging, lower weight, and much improved efficiency.

The 2GR-FKS engine already has over 90hp/L at 6800rpm with a 83mm stroke running 95RON. The A25A-FKS makes 82hp/L at 6600rpm running 91RON. To even achieve the same specific power as the 2GR-FKS they will have to find 10% extra power. Getting 10% extra power is not easy without raising the rpm of the engine, at best they could get close to 90hp/L with 95RON, richer fuel mixture, and more aggressive cams, sacrificing efficiency during the process. The thing is, at 100mm stroke, they really couldn't get much more revs out of the V35A. The ND Miata recently got an upgrade to 90hp/L, but its 2.0 SkyActiv-G had more revs margin to play with.

So the point is, they already need to go through a lot of trouble to match the power of the 2GR-FKS, which is already considered underpowered.

Of course I would love to see a dedicated high specific power 3.5L unit with 100hp/L and thermal efficiency that is relevant in the modern world. But TMC is a very logic-driven corporation, so it tends to not do things that sound cool but don't work well.

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

I was gonna say, the Model 3 is decent when it works, but it ain't a P100D either. There was a widely publicized video of it doing a lap on Laguna Seca last week which was nice, but not world-beating. And reports continue to pile up that there's a weak-link semiconductor in the drive unit that shorts out and kills the car until the component and some fuses are replaced.

I was gonna say, the Model 3 is decent when it works, but it ain't a P100D either. There was a widely publicized video of it doing a lap on Laguna Seca last week which was nice, but not world-beating. And reports continue to pile up that there's a weak-link semiconductor in the drive unit that shorts out and kills the car until the component and some fuses are replaced.

I was gonna say, the Model 3 is decent when it works, but it ain't a P100D either. There was a widely publicized video of it doing a lap on Laguna Seca last week which was nice, but not world-beating. And reports continue to pile up that there's a weak-link semiconductor in the drive unit that shorts out and kills the car until the component and some fuses are replaced.

I was gonna say, the Model 3 is decent when it works, but it ain't a P100D either. There was a widely publicized video of it doing a lap on Laguna Seca last week which was nice, but not world-beating. And reports continue to pile up that there's a weak-link semiconductor in the drive unit that shorts out and kills the car until the component and some fuses are replaced.

maiaramdan

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Traditionally, Altezza/IS/Mark X/Crown/GS all share the same platforms and engines.
In 1989, the Japanese Passenger Car Tax which limited metric dimensions to 4.7 m long x 1.7 m wide was abolished so that Japanese cars could be more competitive globally, however the Mark Series was originally deliberately half a size larger than Altezza/IS, yet deliberately half a size smaller than Crown/GS continues to be produced for the Japanese Domestic Market JDM.
The Toyota Mark Series is a car customized to the JDM.

So as the compact IS & midsize Crown/GS ranges creep up in size, gradually the IS range would only be a Mark X wearing different sheet metal, different upholstery, and with different spring/damper/roll bar rates.
If I remember correctly, since 1989 the Toyota Mark Series hasn't increased more than 3"/75 mm in Japanese metric terms in length/width/height; only the wheelbase has grown by over 6" due to improvements in torsional rigidity & bending stiffness.

Notice how originally, the Nissan Skyline is the sporty competitor to the Toyota Mark Series?
Notice how the Infiniti Q50 is the Nissan Skyline.
Thus the Infiniti Q50 is more spacious than the likes of: C Class, 3 Series, IS etc.
However the Q50 has bulkier handling too - size & handling are a compromize.

I have a different theory regarding 4IS & 5GS.
I suspect 4IS won't increase in size dramatically over its competitors C Class, 3 Series and A4.
I suspect that 5GS ICEV traditional Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle is only being axed to make way for the forthcoming Lexus midsize luxury RWD-based battery powered electric vehicle BEV in the GSb/GSe - whatever you like to call it.

Electrification is just around the corner.
Electrification is another controversial/debatable topic.
Back in the late 1990's, a number of people thought that Kodak Color would be with us forever, and that digital photography with its limited resolution & limited colors etc - would never make it...

maiaramdan

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Traditionally, Altezza/IS/Mark X/Crown/GS all share the same platforms and engines.
In 1989, the Japanese Passenger Car Tax which limited metric dimensions to 4.7 m long x 1.7 m wide was abolished so that Japanese cars could be more competitive globally, however the Mark Series was originally deliberately half a size larger than Altezza/IS, yet deliberately half a size smaller than Crown/GS continues to be produced for the Japanese Domestic Market JDM.
The Toyota Mark Series is a car customized to the JDM.

So as the compact IS & midsize Crown/GS ranges creep up in size, gradually the IS range would only be a Mark X wearing different sheet metal, different upholstery, and with different spring/damper/roll bar rates.
If I remember correctly, since 1989 the Toyota Mark Series hasn't increased more than 3"/75 mm in Japanese metric terms in length/width/height; only the wheelbase has grown by over 6" due to improvements in torsional rigidity & bending stiffness.

Notice how originally, the Nissan Skyline is the sporty competitor to the Toyota Mark Series?
Notice how the Infiniti Q50 is the Nissan Skyline.
Thus the Infiniti Q50 is more spacious than the likes of: C Class, 3 Series, IS etc.
However the Q50 has bulkier handling too - size & handling are a compromize.

I have a different theory regarding 4IS & 5GS.
I suspect 4IS won't increase in size dramatically over its competitors C Class, 3 Series and A4.
I suspect that 5GS ICEV traditional Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle is only being axed to make way for the forthcoming Lexus midsize luxury RWD-based battery powered electric vehicle BEV in the GSb/GSe - whatever you like to call it.

Electrification is just around the corner.
Electrification is another controversial/debatable topic.
Back in the late 1990's, a number of people thought that Kodak Color would be with us forever, and that digital photography with its limited resolution & limited colors etc - would never make it...

maiaramdan

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Traditionally, Altezza/IS/Mark X/Crown/GS all share the same platforms and engines.
In 1989, the Japanese Passenger Car Tax which limited metric dimensions to 4.7 m long x 1.7 m wide was abolished so that Japanese cars could be more competitive globally, however the Mark Series was originally deliberately half a size larger than Altezza/IS, yet deliberately half a size smaller than Crown/GS continues to be produced for the Japanese Domestic Market JDM.
The Toyota Mark Series is a car customized to the JDM.

So as the compact IS & midsize Crown/GS ranges creep up in size, gradually the IS range would only be a Mark X wearing different sheet metal, different upholstery, and with different spring/damper/roll bar rates.
If I remember correctly, since 1989 the Toyota Mark Series hasn't increased more than 3"/75 mm in Japanese metric terms in length/width/height; only the wheelbase has grown by over 6" due to improvements in torsional rigidity & bending stiffness.

Notice how originally, the Nissan Skyline is the sporty competitor to the Toyota Mark Series?
Notice how the Infiniti Q50 is the Nissan Skyline.
Thus the Infiniti Q50 is more spacious than the likes of: C Class, 3 Series, IS etc.
However the Q50 has bulkier handling too - size & handling are a compromize.

I have a different theory regarding 4IS & 5GS.
I suspect 4IS won't increase in size dramatically over its competitors C Class, 3 Series and A4.
I suspect that 5GS ICEV traditional Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle is only being axed to make way for the forthcoming Lexus midsize luxury RWD-based battery powered electric vehicle BEV in the GSb/GSe - whatever you like to call it.

Electrification is just around the corner.
Electrification is another controversial/debatable topic.
Back in the late 1990's, a number of people thought that Kodak Color would be with us forever, and that digital photography with its limited resolution & limited colors etc - would never make it...

maiaramdan

Honestly I got a strange thoughts
If the next IS length will be nearly as the current Mark-X, will this makes it confirm that there is a next generation Mark-X with the exact dimensions???

Traditionally, Altezza/IS/Mark X/Crown/GS all share the same platforms and engines.
In 1989, the Japanese Passenger Car Tax which limited metric dimensions to 4.7 m long x 1.7 m wide was abolished so that Japanese cars could be more competitive globally, however the Mark Series was originally deliberately half a size larger than Altezza/IS, yet deliberately half a size smaller than Crown/GS continues to be produced for the Japanese Domestic Market JDM.
The Toyota Mark Series is a car customized to the JDM.

So as the compact IS & midsize Crown/GS ranges creep up in size, gradually the IS range would only be a Mark X wearing different sheet metal, different upholstery, and with different spring/damper/roll bar rates.
If I remember correctly, since 1989 the Toyota Mark Series hasn't increased more than 3"/75 mm in Japanese metric terms in length/width/height; only the wheelbase has grown by over 6" due to improvements in torsional rigidity & bending stiffness.

Notice how originally, the Nissan Skyline is the sporty competitor to the Toyota Mark Series?
Notice how the Infiniti Q50 is the Nissan Skyline.
Thus the Infiniti Q50 is more spacious than the likes of: C Class, 3 Series, IS etc.
However the Q50 has bulkier handling too - size & handling are a compromize.

I have a different theory regarding 4IS & 5GS.
I suspect 4IS won't increase in size dramatically over its competitors C Class, 3 Series and A4.
I suspect that 5GS ICEV traditional Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle is only being axed to make way for the forthcoming Lexus midsize luxury RWD-based battery powered electric vehicle BEV in the GSb/GSe - whatever you like to call it.

Electrification is just around the corner.
Electrification is another controversial/debatable topic.
Back in the late 1990's, a number of people thought that Kodak Color would be with us forever, and that digital photography with its limited resolution & limited colors etc - would never make it...

@peterharvey
So you want to say that the 5GS will be like Tesla S competitor

@peterharvey
So you want to say that the 5GS will be like Tesla S competitor

@peterharvey
So you want to say that the 5GS will be like Tesla S competitor

@peterharvey
So you want to say that the 5GS will be like Tesla S competitor

I seriously doubt the next IS will have any pure electrification considering Toyota’s glacial pace to adopt anything outside of their comfort zone.

However, I do believe the IS should grow, if only slightly. I’m not talking front overhang grill growth, but real wheelbase growth.

It’s a natural evolution and helps to maintain the customer base.

That’s why the 3 series, C class and A4 have all grown while these manufacturers insert new but smaller models into the lineup to maintain that market segment. It refreshes an otherwise stale lineup and there’s no arguing that Lexus’ sedan lineup is beyond stale.

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market when in fact these are nothing more than the original 3 series or A4 from two generations ago in regards to size.

Lexus just doesn’t understand this aspect I guess.

I seriously doubt the next IS will have any pure electrification considering Toyota’s glacial pace to adopt anything outside of their comfort zone.

However, I do believe the IS should grow, if only slightly. I’m not talking front overhang grill growth, but real wheelbase growth.

It’s a natural evolution and helps to maintain the customer base.

That’s why the 3 series, C class and A4 have all grown while these manufacturers insert new but smaller models into the lineup to maintain that market segment. It refreshes an otherwise stale lineup and there’s no arguing that Lexus’ sedan lineup is beyond stale.

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market when in fact these are nothing more than the original 3 series or A4 from two generations ago in regards to size.

Lexus just doesn’t understand this aspect I guess.

I seriously doubt the next IS will have any pure electrification considering Toyota’s glacial pace to adopt anything outside of their comfort zone.

However, I do believe the IS should grow, if only slightly. I’m not talking front overhang grill growth, but real wheelbase growth.

It’s a natural evolution and helps to maintain the customer base.

That’s why the 3 series, C class and A4 have all grown while these manufacturers insert new but smaller models into the lineup to maintain that market segment. It refreshes an otherwise stale lineup and there’s no arguing that Lexus’ sedan lineup is beyond stale.

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market when in fact these are nothing more than the original 3 series or A4 from two generations ago in regards to size.

Lexus just doesn’t understand this aspect I guess.

I seriously doubt the next IS will have any pure electrification considering Toyota’s glacial pace to adopt anything outside of their comfort zone.

However, I do believe the IS should grow, if only slightly. I’m not talking front overhang grill growth, but real wheelbase growth.

It’s a natural evolution and helps to maintain the customer base.

That’s why the 3 series, C class and A4 have all grown while these manufacturers insert new but smaller models into the lineup to maintain that market segment. It refreshes an otherwise stale lineup and there’s no arguing that Lexus’ sedan lineup is beyond stale.

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market when in fact these are nothing more than the original 3 series or A4 from two generations ago in regards to size.

Lexus just doesn’t understand this aspect I guess.

Rhambler

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.

4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?

Rhambler

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.

4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?

Rhambler

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.

4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?

Rhambler

The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.

4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?

ssun30

Sources?

There is no source on this. Just two indicators:

1. New key engine technology will not be released in an entry segment with diminishing sales. They will stick to what they had developped for other cars. So Camry engine, ES engine...

2. Speculation in this forum: Never ever were any of the speculations on new powertrains true. The CT became 200h only, the UX will be 200/250h, no turbo in the ES and so on...

ssun30

Sources?

There is no source on this. Just two indicators:

1. New key engine technology will not be released in an entry segment with diminishing sales. They will stick to what they had developped for other cars. So Camry engine, ES engine...

2. Speculation in this forum: Never ever were any of the speculations on new powertrains true. The CT became 200h only, the UX will be 200/250h, no turbo in the ES and so on...

ssun30

Sources?

There is no source on this. Just two indicators:

1. New key engine technology will not be released in an entry segment with diminishing sales. They will stick to what they had developped for other cars. So Camry engine, ES engine...

2. Speculation in this forum: Never ever were any of the speculations on new powertrains true. The CT became 200h only, the UX will be 200/250h, no turbo in the ES and so on...

ssun30

Sources?

There is no source on this. Just two indicators:

1. New key engine technology will not be released in an entry segment with diminishing sales. They will stick to what they had developped for other cars. So Camry engine, ES engine...

2. Speculation in this forum: Never ever were any of the speculations on new powertrains true. The CT became 200h only, the UX will be 200/250h, no turbo in the ES and so on...

ssun30

The Dynamic Force is a less power dense design than the GR/UR. It loses quite a bit of peak torque (100N.m/L) compared to the older GSE (close to 110N.m/L). However the usable torque should be comparable in real world usage. Still the DF motors will struggle against turbocharged competition for hauling and towing.

Turbocharging just makes sense for utility vehicles. We shouldn't be surprised that every heavy duty combat vehicle out there has a turbodiesel. And modern turbo gasolines are basically turbodiesels that rev higher and burn cleaner.



Whether the US market definitively want a naturally aspirated V6 is somewhat debatable. After all, the best sellers in the segment are all equipped with forced-induction. I don't see 3-series buyers complaining the N55 and B58 are not naturally aspirated.

The problem is, again, what new capabilities can a hypothetical V35A-FKS bring? If, as many on this forum suggest, the current IS350 lacks power compared to the competition (which is true), will the V35A-FKS solve this problem at all? The 2IS introduced the 2GR-FSE which is a huge upgrade in capabilities vs. the old 2JZ-GE on the 1IS/Altezza. It was almost a 50% power increase, along with more compact packaging, lower weight, and much improved efficiency.

The 2GR-FKS engine already has over 90hp/L at 6800rpm with a 83mm stroke running 95RON. The A25A-FKS makes 82hp/L at 6600rpm running 91RON. To even achieve the same specific power as the 2GR-FKS they will have to find 10% extra power. Getting 10% extra power is not easy without raising the rpm of the engine, at best they could get close to 90hp/L with 95RON, richer fuel mixture, and more aggressive cams, sacrificing efficiency during the process. The thing is, at 100mm stroke, they really couldn't get much more revs out of the V35A. The ND Miata recently got an upgrade to 90hp/L, but its 2.0 SkyActiv-G had more revs margin to play with.

So the point is, they already need to go through a lot of trouble to match the power of the 2GR-FKS, which is already considered underpowered.

Of course I would love to see a dedicated high specific power 3.5L unit with 100hp/L and thermal efficiency that is relevant in the modern world. But TMC is a very logic-driven corporation, so it tends to not do things that sound cool but don't work well.

Much of this post is incorrect and I strongly disagree. I'm curious where you're getting your figures from because it's as if you're pulling them out of thin air. There is no Dynamic Force V8 released yet. The only Dynamic Force V6 released is the V35A-FTS, which is a twin-turbo V6 model. It is much, much more power dense than any GR V6. This is partially because of the twin turbos, but not entirely of course. The V35-FTS achieves 416HP at 6000 RPM on premium fuel, which is not particularly high-revving compared to the GR series engines. That's a power density of about 119 HP/L (achieved at lower revs than the 2GR-FKS) not to mention much, MUCH more torque density than any GR engine, that there's no point even listing the numbers because the torque difference is so obviously massive. It Beyond this, there is absolutely zero public evidence available on what the hypothetical power density would be/could be on a naturally aspirated variant of the V35A.

The A25A Dynamic Force engine is more power-dense than its previous generation predecessor. Comparing the A25A to the V35A or GR series is meaningless at this point. If you insist though, lets have the numbers do the talking. In the most basic configuration on the Camry, the A25A-FKS achieves 203HP at 6600 RPM on regular fuel, which is a power density of about 81 HP/L. Also in the Camry, the 2GR-FKS achieves 301HP at 6600 RPM on regular fuel, for a power density of 86 HP/L. So like for like, apples to apples, that's not much of a power density difference. Again, this is a meaningless comparison, because you are comparing a mainstream, low cost inline 4 engine of a new generation versus a more higher end, higher cost V6 design of an older generation. So two different engine architectures from two different generations you're comparing here. If and/or when a naturally aspirated variant of the V35A appears, it's very likely that it won't be using the exact same technologies as the A25A. Other differences include the fact that the A25A-FKS achieves much better emissions than the 2GR-FKS, as well as much better emissions than the previous generation AR predecessor. Also there is the other obvious point that the A25-FKS achieves dramatically better fuel economy than the 2GR-FKS.

So in fact, the A25A-FKS almost matches the 2GR-FKS power density when comparing like for like (both engines on the Camry, comparing both on regular fuel). It does so while being a different engine architecture, achieving dramatically better fuel economy, much better emissions, and while being a lower cost, more basic engine design compared to the 2GR-FKS. It also does so in spite of the fact that the A25A-FKS was not even designed for peak power density whatsoever. So it does so without even trying.

Let me repeat though, an overall meaningless comparison. The only meaningful comparison will come if and/or when we get a naturally aspirated successor to the GR series. If we don't get a naturally aspirated successor to the GR, then the V35A-FTS is automatically the clear winner over the GR series in regards to power density.