Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan

Posted by Kevin on October 5th, 2018

Renderings of the next-generation Lexus IS are a favorite of the Japanese automotive press — this attempt by (a currently unknown) magazine was posted yesterday by a Lexus fan on Instagram:

Lexus IS Rear Next-Generation

The differences between this photochop and the existing model are minimal — the only changes are with the front and rear bumpers, making this rendering seem more like a mid-cycle refresh. That said, the design of the current IS sedan has never been a weakness, and maintaining some consistency across generations would not be a bad move.

The magazine mentions a 2021 release along with some preliminary dimensions:

Lexus IS Dimensions Next-Generation

Compared to the current model, the next-generation IS length and wheelbase would grow by 4cm, with all other measurements staying the same. Also mentioned is a 2.5L engine with 181 horsepower, which makes absolutely no sense and I’m choosing to ignore.

FeaturesLexus IS: Third GenerationPhotochops
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Comments
R
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!
However would like Lexus to manufacture it, as I believe Tesla has had assembly problems and various teething issues after all they are now building at the rate of 7000 (up from 5000) cars a week from start up. I know Ford make that number in a matter of hours but their products along with many other manufacturers are looking boring and definitely old world by comparison to the new wave. The new Nissan Leaf recently launched now has a range on one charge of over 400 kms which for many folk would mean that the car needs to be re charged on a once a week basis. This range is likely to continue to improve as battery tech Improves.
The established manufacturers are not far away I am sure.
R
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!
However would like Lexus to manufacture it, as I believe Tesla has had assembly problems and various teething issues after all they are now building at the rate of 7000 (up from 5000) cars a week from start up. I know Ford make that number in a matter of hours but their products along with many other manufacturers are looking boring and definitely old world by comparison to the new wave. The new Nissan Leaf recently launched now has a range on one charge of over 400 kms which for many folk would mean that the car needs to be re charged on a once a week basis. This range is likely to continue to improve as battery tech Improves.
The established manufacturers are not far away I am sure.
R
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!
However would like Lexus to manufacture it, as I believe Tesla has had assembly problems and various teething issues after all they are now building at the rate of 7000 (up from 5000) cars a week from start up. I know Ford make that number in a matter of hours but their products along with many other manufacturers are looking boring and definitely old world by comparison to the new wave. The new Nissan Leaf recently launched now has a range on one charge of over 400 kms which for many folk would mean that the car needs to be re charged on a once a week basis. This range is likely to continue to improve as battery tech Improves.
The established manufacturers are not far away I am sure.
L
Yes, I want a Tesla made by Lexus.
L
Yes, I want a Tesla made by Lexus.
L
Yes, I want a Tesla made by Lexus.
L
Yes, I want a Tesla made by Lexus.
S
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
in the end, i bet 2.5t will be more expensive than 2GR-FKS, so I doubt that NA will see that engine soon :)
S
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
in the end, i bet 2.5t will be more expensive than 2GR-FKS, so I doubt that NA will see that engine soon :)
S
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
in the end, i bet 2.5t will be more expensive than 2GR-FKS, so I doubt that NA will see that engine soon :)
S
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
in the end, i bet 2.5t will be more expensive than 2GR-FKS, so I doubt that NA will see that engine soon :)
T
Rob Grieveson
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!


That's the only video Top Gear has posted on YouTube about the Model 3. There was no track testing in it, just an introduction and a bit of driving around. However, there is a different video of the Model S P100D smoking a Porsche 911R while drag racing.



It seems like you're misinforming people here. I say this because you made the claim that it was the "Tesla 3" ... "In this same You Tube Tesla clip" ... "round a track." It was a different car, in a different video, going down a drag strip.
T
Rob Grieveson
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!


That's the only video Top Gear has posted on YouTube about the Model 3. There was no track testing in it, just an introduction and a bit of driving around. However, there is a different video of the Model S P100D smoking a Porsche 911R while drag racing.



It seems like you're misinforming people here. I say this because you made the claim that it was the "Tesla 3" ... "In this same You Tube Tesla clip" ... "round a track." It was a different car, in a different video, going down a drag strip.
T
Rob Grieveson
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!


That's the only video Top Gear has posted on YouTube about the Model 3. There was no track testing in it, just an introduction and a bit of driving around. However, there is a different video of the Model S P100D smoking a Porsche 911R while drag racing.



It seems like you're misinforming people here. I say this because you made the claim that it was the "Tesla 3" ... "In this same You Tube Tesla clip" ... "round a track." It was a different car, in a different video, going down a drag strip.
T
Rob Grieveson
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!


That's the only video Top Gear has posted on YouTube about the Model 3. There was no track testing in it, just an introduction and a bit of driving around. However, there is a different video of the Model S P100D smoking a Porsche 911R while drag racing.



It seems like you're misinforming people here. I say this because you made the claim that it was the "Tesla 3" ... "In this same You Tube Tesla clip" ... "round a track." It was a different car, in a different video, going down a drag strip.
T
I thought Toyota was skipping lithium ion batteries altogether for their solid state batteries? So I highly doubt there will be a tesla rival anytime soon. At least for the initial pre facelifted 4IS anyway.

My hopes for the 4IS are simple. A more fuel efficient flagship to replace the ageing GR engine that has roughly 250kws output (even if it was hybrid). A slightly higher output 2L turbo 4 (180kw is just fine as it is. the car just needs to be a little lighter). Maybe a slightly higher output hybrid to replace the 300h? I'm not certain about that one as the camry/ES hybrid is roughly 152kw only...

Most importantly though...a bit more practicality without sacrificing design for the interior! I mean the current one is nice but it got date pretty quickly especially in drag dark grey plastic (even if it is higher quality than Toyota). I mean yeah it's good quality. But it would be nice to look it too with various materials. Also...pretty please include a sunglasses holder!
T
I thought Toyota was skipping lithium ion batteries altogether for their solid state batteries? So I highly doubt there will be a tesla rival anytime soon. At least for the initial pre facelifted 4IS anyway.

My hopes for the 4IS are simple. A more fuel efficient flagship to replace the ageing GR engine that has roughly 250kws output (even if it was hybrid). A slightly higher output 2L turbo 4 (180kw is just fine as it is. the car just needs to be a little lighter). Maybe a slightly higher output hybrid to replace the 300h? I'm not certain about that one as the camry/ES hybrid is roughly 152kw only...

Most importantly though...a bit more practicality without sacrificing design for the interior! I mean the current one is nice but it got date pretty quickly especially in drag dark grey plastic (even if it is higher quality than Toyota). I mean yeah it's good quality. But it would be nice to look it too with various materials. Also...pretty please include a sunglasses holder!
T
I thought Toyota was skipping lithium ion batteries altogether for their solid state batteries? So I highly doubt there will be a tesla rival anytime soon. At least for the initial pre facelifted 4IS anyway.

My hopes for the 4IS are simple. A more fuel efficient flagship to replace the ageing GR engine that has roughly 250kws output (even if it was hybrid). A slightly higher output 2L turbo 4 (180kw is just fine as it is. the car just needs to be a little lighter). Maybe a slightly higher output hybrid to replace the 300h? I'm not certain about that one as the camry/ES hybrid is roughly 152kw only...

Most importantly though...a bit more practicality without sacrificing design for the interior! I mean the current one is nice but it got date pretty quickly especially in drag dark grey plastic (even if it is higher quality than Toyota). I mean yeah it's good quality. But it would be nice to look it too with various materials. Also...pretty please include a sunglasses holder!
T
I thought Toyota was skipping lithium ion batteries altogether for their solid state batteries? So I highly doubt there will be a tesla rival anytime soon. At least for the initial pre facelifted 4IS anyway.

My hopes for the 4IS are simple. A more fuel efficient flagship to replace the ageing GR engine that has roughly 250kws output (even if it was hybrid). A slightly higher output 2L turbo 4 (180kw is just fine as it is. the car just needs to be a little lighter). Maybe a slightly higher output hybrid to replace the 300h? I'm not certain about that one as the camry/ES hybrid is roughly 152kw only...

Most importantly though...a bit more practicality without sacrificing design for the interior! I mean the current one is nice but it got date pretty quickly especially in drag dark grey plastic (even if it is higher quality than Toyota). I mean yeah it's good quality. But it would be nice to look it too with various materials. Also...pretty please include a sunglasses holder!
CIF
Rob Grieveson
Interesting forum comments I think they need to re vamp te IS now not in two years time, and I agree that we need an electric IS to take on Tesla. Tesla are now producing 5000 of their 3 sedan per week and climbing and still cannot fulfill the de and.
I am pretty sure Toyota will not let this go and therefore expect to see an EV sooner rather than later. Looking at Tesla on You Tube it is hard not to be impressed with their car, simple, clean design like driving an iPhone and that is want the youngster relate to.
What demand is that exactly regarding the Model 3? The fact that the majority of Tesla 3 deposits have been for the cheaper base model which Tesla is not producing yet? We have no idea when Tesla will actually start production of the base $35,000 model. So far Tesla is only producing the much more expensive variants of the Model 3.

While you may be impressed, many others are not. The Model 3 has some massive, MASSIVE documented quality problems. Even compared to Tesla's subpar quality standards, some shortcuts have been taken and important steps have been skipped during Model 3 production so far.

mikeavelli
Good point about the Model 3, another disruptor from Tesla that is taking sales from everyone...
Let's see how Model 3 quality holds up, and when Tesla is actually able to deliver that $35,000 base model. The Model 3 has had some massive, massive problems so far.

ssun30
If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
Not if Toyota values customer feedback. There has been some negative customer feedback so far for the 3rd gen Tacoma with the 2GR-FKS and 6 speed auto. Many feel the engine and transmission combination is a poor fit for the Tacoma. That's why used 2nd gen Tacoma values with the 1GR continue to hold incredibly. Of course the Tacoma sells no matter what, but the fact that the 3rd gen already has a negative reputation among many Toyota fans and some owners is significant.

The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
CIF
Rob Grieveson
Interesting forum comments I think they need to re vamp te IS now not in two years time, and I agree that we need an electric IS to take on Tesla. Tesla are now producing 5000 of their 3 sedan per week and climbing and still cannot fulfill the de and.
I am pretty sure Toyota will not let this go and therefore expect to see an EV sooner rather than later. Looking at Tesla on You Tube it is hard not to be impressed with their car, simple, clean design like driving an iPhone and that is want the youngster relate to.
What demand is that exactly regarding the Model 3? The fact that the majority of Tesla 3 deposits have been for the cheaper base model which Tesla is not producing yet? We have no idea when Tesla will actually start production of the base $35,000 model. So far Tesla is only producing the much more expensive variants of the Model 3.

While you may be impressed, many others are not. The Model 3 has some massive, MASSIVE documented quality problems. Even compared to Tesla's subpar quality standards, some shortcuts have been taken and important steps have been skipped during Model 3 production so far.

mikeavelli
Good point about the Model 3, another disruptor from Tesla that is taking sales from everyone...
Let's see how Model 3 quality holds up, and when Tesla is actually able to deliver that $35,000 base model. The Model 3 has had some massive, massive problems so far.

ssun30
If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
Not if Toyota values customer feedback. There has been some negative customer feedback so far for the 3rd gen Tacoma with the 2GR-FKS and 6 speed auto. Many feel the engine and transmission combination is a poor fit for the Tacoma. That's why used 2nd gen Tacoma values with the 1GR continue to hold incredibly. Of course the Tacoma sells no matter what, but the fact that the 3rd gen already has a negative reputation among many Toyota fans and some owners is significant.

The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
CIF
Rob Grieveson
Interesting forum comments I think they need to re vamp te IS now not in two years time, and I agree that we need an electric IS to take on Tesla. Tesla are now producing 5000 of their 3 sedan per week and climbing and still cannot fulfill the de and.
I am pretty sure Toyota will not let this go and therefore expect to see an EV sooner rather than later. Looking at Tesla on You Tube it is hard not to be impressed with their car, simple, clean design like driving an iPhone and that is want the youngster relate to.
What demand is that exactly regarding the Model 3? The fact that the majority of Tesla 3 deposits have been for the cheaper base model which Tesla is not producing yet? We have no idea when Tesla will actually start production of the base $35,000 model. So far Tesla is only producing the much more expensive variants of the Model 3.

While you may be impressed, many others are not. The Model 3 has some massive, MASSIVE documented quality problems. Even compared to Tesla's subpar quality standards, some shortcuts have been taken and important steps have been skipped during Model 3 production so far.

mikeavelli
Good point about the Model 3, another disruptor from Tesla that is taking sales from everyone...
Let's see how Model 3 quality holds up, and when Tesla is actually able to deliver that $35,000 base model. The Model 3 has had some massive, massive problems so far.

ssun30
If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
Not if Toyota values customer feedback. There has been some negative customer feedback so far for the 3rd gen Tacoma with the 2GR-FKS and 6 speed auto. Many feel the engine and transmission combination is a poor fit for the Tacoma. That's why used 2nd gen Tacoma values with the 1GR continue to hold incredibly. Of course the Tacoma sells no matter what, but the fact that the 3rd gen already has a negative reputation among many Toyota fans and some owners is significant.

The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
CIF
Rob Grieveson
Interesting forum comments I think they need to re vamp te IS now not in two years time, and I agree that we need an electric IS to take on Tesla. Tesla are now producing 5000 of their 3 sedan per week and climbing and still cannot fulfill the de and.
I am pretty sure Toyota will not let this go and therefore expect to see an EV sooner rather than later. Looking at Tesla on You Tube it is hard not to be impressed with their car, simple, clean design like driving an iPhone and that is want the youngster relate to.
What demand is that exactly regarding the Model 3? The fact that the majority of Tesla 3 deposits have been for the cheaper base model which Tesla is not producing yet? We have no idea when Tesla will actually start production of the base $35,000 model. So far Tesla is only producing the much more expensive variants of the Model 3.

While you may be impressed, many others are not. The Model 3 has some massive, MASSIVE documented quality problems. Even compared to Tesla's subpar quality standards, some shortcuts have been taken and important steps have been skipped during Model 3 production so far.

mikeavelli
Good point about the Model 3, another disruptor from Tesla that is taking sales from everyone...
Let's see how Model 3 quality holds up, and when Tesla is actually able to deliver that $35,000 base model. The Model 3 has had some massive, massive problems so far.

ssun30
If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
Not if Toyota values customer feedback. There has been some negative customer feedback so far for the 3rd gen Tacoma with the 2GR-FKS and 6 speed auto. Many feel the engine and transmission combination is a poor fit for the Tacoma. That's why used 2nd gen Tacoma values with the 1GR continue to hold incredibly. Of course the Tacoma sells no matter what, but the fact that the 3rd gen already has a negative reputation among many Toyota fans and some owners is significant.

The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
T
CIF
The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
T
CIF
The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
T
CIF
The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
T
CIF
The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
S
TheNerdyPotato
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
The Dynamic Force is a less power dense design than the GR/UR. It loses quite a bit of peak torque (100N.m/L) compared to the older GSE (close to 110N.m/L). However the usable torque should be comparable in real world usage. Still the DF motors will struggle against turbocharged competition for hauling and towing.

Turbocharging just makes sense for utility vehicles. We shouldn't be surprised that every heavy duty combat vehicle out there has a turbodiesel. And modern turbo gasolines are basically turbodiesels that rev higher and burn cleaner.

Joaquin Ruhi
might its 4th-gen successor be the first to use a naturally aspirated V35A-FKS in North America, Japan and Oceania?

I agree with ssun30 that a turbocharged A24/25A-FTS would be better suited for China's engine displacement-based laws than the V35A. and I imagine that Europe's primary powertrain lineup will continue to be hybrid, most likely the latest Toyota Crown's choice of A25A-FXS and 8GR-FXS.
Whether the US market definitively want a naturally aspirated V6 is somewhat debatable. After all, the best sellers in the segment are all equipped with forced-induction. I don't see 3-series buyers complaining the N55 and B58 are not naturally aspirated.

The problem is, again, what new capabilities can a hypothetical V35A-FKS bring? If, as many on this forum suggest, the current IS350 lacks power compared to the competition (which is true), will the V35A-FKS solve this problem at all? The 2IS introduced the 2GR-FSE which is a huge upgrade in capabilities vs. the old 2JZ-GE on the 1IS/Altezza. It was almost a 50% power increase, along with more compact packaging, lower weight, and much improved efficiency.

The 2GR-FKS engine already has over 90hp/L at 6800rpm with a 83mm stroke running 95RON. The A25A-FKS makes 82hp/L at 6600rpm running 91RON. To even achieve the same specific power as the 2GR-FKS they will have to find 10% extra power. Getting 10% extra power is not easy without raising the rpm of the engine, at best they could get close to 90hp/L with 95RON, richer fuel mixture, and more aggressive cams, sacrificing efficiency during the process. The thing is, at 100mm stroke, they really couldn't get much more revs out of the V35A. The ND Miata recently got an upgrade to 90hp/L, but its 2.0 SkyActiv-G had more revs margin to play with.

So the point is, they already need to go through a lot of trouble to match the power of the 2GR-FKS, which is already considered underpowered.

Of course I would love to see a dedicated high specific power 3.5L unit with 100hp/L and thermal efficiency that is relevant in the modern world. But TMC is a very logic-driven corporation, so it tends to not do things that sound cool but don't work well.
S
TheNerdyPotato
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
The Dynamic Force is a less power dense design than the GR/UR. It loses quite a bit of peak torque (100N.m/L) compared to the older GSE (close to 110N.m/L). However the usable torque should be comparable in real world usage. Still the DF motors will struggle against turbocharged competition for hauling and towing.

Turbocharging just makes sense for utility vehicles. We shouldn't be surprised that every heavy duty combat vehicle out there has a turbodiesel. And modern turbo gasolines are basically turbodiesels that rev higher and burn cleaner.

Joaquin Ruhi
might its 4th-gen successor be the first to use a naturally aspirated V35A-FKS in North America, Japan and Oceania?

I agree with ssun30 that a turbocharged A24/25A-FTS would be better suited for China's engine displacement-based laws than the V35A. and I imagine that Europe's primary powertrain lineup will continue to be hybrid, most likely the latest Toyota Crown's choice of A25A-FXS and 8GR-FXS.
Whether the US market definitively want a naturally aspirated V6 is somewhat debatable. After all, the best sellers in the segment are all equipped with forced-induction. I don't see 3-series buyers complaining the N55 and B58 are not naturally aspirated.

The problem is, again, what new capabilities can a hypothetical V35A-FKS bring? If, as many on this forum suggest, the current IS350 lacks power compared to the competition (which is true), will the V35A-FKS solve this problem at all? The 2IS introduced the 2GR-FSE which is a huge upgrade in capabilities vs. the old 2JZ-GE on the 1IS/Altezza. It was almost a 50% power increase, along with more compact packaging, lower weight, and much improved efficiency.

The 2GR-FKS engine already has over 90hp/L at 6800rpm with a 83mm stroke running 95RON. The A25A-FKS makes 82hp/L at 6600rpm running 91RON. To even achieve the same specific power as the 2GR-FKS they will have to find 10% extra power. Getting 10% extra power is not easy without raising the rpm of the engine, at best they could get close to 90hp/L with 95RON, richer fuel mixture, and more aggressive cams, sacrificing efficiency during the process. The thing is, at 100mm stroke, they really couldn't get much more revs out of the V35A. The ND Miata recently got an upgrade to 90hp/L, but its 2.0 SkyActiv-G had more revs margin to play with.

So the point is, they already need to go through a lot of trouble to match the power of the 2GR-FKS, which is already considered underpowered.

Of course I would love to see a dedicated high specific power 3.5L unit with 100hp/L and thermal efficiency that is relevant in the modern world. But TMC is a very logic-driven corporation, so it tends to not do things that sound cool but don't work well.
S
TheNerdyPotato
This reminds me of what I said about the 1UR in the Tundra. It's fine in a smaller, lighter car (LS460) as the -FSE variant. The neutered -FE variant has lower compression and lacks direct injection. As such, it is an underperformer in the full-size truck.

More specific to the 2GR, as well as the 1UR; they are both oversquare. This leads to more rev-happy high-power engines. The problem is they then tend to lose some low-end torque. The Dynamic-Force engines are all undersquare (tall-narrow cylinders) and could correct some of the torque deficit without increasing displacement or resorting to turbocharging.
The Dynamic Force is a less power dense design than the GR/UR. It loses quite a bit of peak torque (100N.m/L) compared to the older GSE (close to 110N.m/L). However the usable torque should be comparable in real world usage. Still the DF motors will struggle against turbocharged competition for hauling and towing.

Turbocharging just makes sense for utility vehicles. We shouldn't be surprised that every heavy duty combat vehicle out there has a turbodiesel. And modern turbo gasolines are basically turbodiesels that rev higher and burn cleaner.

Joaquin Ruhi
might its 4th-gen successor be the first to use a naturally aspirated V35A-FKS in North America, Japan and Oceania?

I agree with ssun30 that a turbocharged A24/25A-FTS would be better suited for China's engine displacement-based laws than the V35A. and I imagine that Europe's primary powertrain lineup will continue to be hybrid, most likely the latest Toyota Crown's choice of A25A-FXS and 8GR-FXS.
Whether the US market definitively want a naturally aspirated V6 is somewhat debatable. After all, the best sellers in the segment are all equipped with forced-induction. I don't see 3-series buyers complaining the N55 and B58 are not naturally aspirated.

The problem is, again, what new capabilities can a hypothetical V35A-FKS bring? If, as many on this forum suggest, the current IS350 lacks power compared to the competition (which is true), will the V35A-FKS solve this problem at all? The 2IS introduced the 2GR-FSE which is a huge upgrade in capabilities vs. the old 2JZ-GE on the 1IS/Altezza. It was almost a 50% power increase, along with more compact packaging, lower weight, and much improved efficiency.

The 2GR-FKS engine already has over 90hp/L at 6800rpm with a 83mm stroke running 95RON. The A25A-FKS makes 82hp/L at 6600rpm running 91RON. To even achieve the same specific power as the 2GR-FKS they will have to find 10% extra power. Getting 10% extra power is not easy without raising the rpm of the engine, at best they could get close to 90hp/L with 95RON, richer fuel mixture, and more aggressive cams, sacrificing efficiency during the process. The thing is, at 100mm stroke, they really couldn't get much more revs out of the V35A. The ND Miata recently got an upgrade to 90hp/L, but its 2.0 SkyActiv-G had more revs margin to play with.

So the point is, they already need to go through a lot of trouble to match the power of the 2GR-FKS, which is already considered underpowered.

Of course I would love to see a dedicated high specific power 3.5L unit with 100hp/L and thermal efficiency that is relevant in the modern world. But TMC is a very logic-driven corporation, so it tends to not do things that sound cool but don't work well.

S