Video: Matt Farah Reviews the 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT

krew

One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

True. The Lexus GS is now a global vehicle. But I was more speaking in the context of the US-Market. The US-Market doesn't seem to demand the AWD system and statistics show the take-rate for AWD is low in America as well. I just question how Toyota will profit from introducing AWD ES to the US Market during a time of SUV craze and down-ward sedan trends. I feel like the Lexus ES AWD will get passed up by AWD SUVs in areas where AWD is needed.

In my opinion - the Lexus ES will never replace the GS. Not even with AWD.
Its true. The Lexus ES will be able to put down more power with the extra grip but I would hardly call it performance. If anything, a more powerful ES with a AWD will be a niche sell at best. Majority of core ES buyers won't even consider AWD or more power. Soyfan from Redline stated and I'm summarizing what hes saying here: majority of ES owners won't even floor it to a point where AWD is needed.

Toyota is a heavy business car company. They won't make something unless it draws net profit for share-holders. This is why I think if Toyota can get away without offering AWD, they would.

krew

One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

True. The Lexus GS is now a global vehicle. But I was more speaking in the context of the US-Market. The US-Market doesn't seem to demand the AWD system and statistics show the take-rate for AWD is low in America as well. I just question how Toyota will profit from introducing AWD ES to the US Market during a time of SUV craze and down-ward sedan trends. I feel like the Lexus ES AWD will get passed up by AWD SUVs in areas where AWD is needed.

In my opinion - the Lexus ES will never replace the GS. Not even with AWD.
Its true. The Lexus ES will be able to put down more power with the extra grip but I would hardly call it performance. If anything, a more powerful ES with a AWD will be a niche sell at best. Majority of core ES buyers won't even consider AWD or more power. Soyfan from Redline stated and I'm summarizing what hes saying here: majority of ES owners won't even floor it to a point where AWD is needed.

Toyota is a heavy business car company. They won't make something unless it draws net profit for share-holders. This is why I think if Toyota can get away without offering AWD, they would.

krew

One point missing here is that the ES is now a global vehicle, and there are multiple regions around the world where AWD is a very big deal (like up here in Canada and many countries in Europe). If the ES is to replace the GS effectively, it needs to have power to all four wheels both for performance and positioning.

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

True. The Lexus GS is now a global vehicle. But I was more speaking in the context of the US-Market. The US-Market doesn't seem to demand the AWD system and statistics show the take-rate for AWD is low in America as well. I just question how Toyota will profit from introducing AWD ES to the US Market during a time of SUV craze and down-ward sedan trends. I feel like the Lexus ES AWD will get passed up by AWD SUVs in areas where AWD is needed.

In my opinion - the Lexus ES will never replace the GS. Not even with AWD.
Its true. The Lexus ES will be able to put down more power with the extra grip but I would hardly call it performance. If anything, a more powerful ES with a AWD will be a niche sell at best. Majority of core ES buyers won't even consider AWD or more power. Soyfan from Redline stated and I'm summarizing what hes saying here: majority of ES owners won't even floor it to a point where AWD is needed.

Toyota is a heavy business car company. They won't make something unless it draws net profit for share-holders. This is why I think if Toyota can get away without offering AWD, they would.

Levi

And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Levi

And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Levi

And yet Porsche 718 and 911 get away with this.

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Sakura

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

Sakura

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

Sakura

True. The Porsche 718 and 911 offer MacPherson struts. I don't like it that it does either. However - the Porsche 718/911 is built differently. Its built so that the disadvantages of the MacPherson doesn't really affect it. We can't say the same about the Lexus ES - you still feel the disadvantages of the MacPherson.

Its how some people say "FWD doesn't stuck at handling because of the Civic Type R." Well - the Type R is built differently compared to other FWD cars.

In your example of the Porsche - we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

mikeavelli

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

I'm not sure why people expect the ES to be anything more than the ES it has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a tough spot, but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

mikeavelli

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

I'm not sure why people expect the ES to be anything more than the ES it has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a tough spot, but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

mikeavelli

Porsche's could have twigs for a suspension and they likely would still be considered one of the best driving cars around lol.

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

I'm not sure why people expect the ES to be anything more than the ES it has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a tough spot, but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

Porsche uses struts for better packaging. There's not enough weight in the front to justify a more complex layout. They still make expensive struts out of forged alloy so they are not cheaping out.
It's hard to define what car enthusiasts are. So it can be said that the M5 is not an enthusiast's car. Most of its buyers are similar to the regular luxury buyer, namely successful family in their 50s, but with more budget to spare and more risk taking personalities.

Porsche uses struts for better packaging. There's not enough weight in the front to justify a more complex layout. They still make expensive struts out of forged alloy so they are not cheaping out.
It's hard to define what car enthusiasts are. So it can be said that the M5 is not an enthusiast's car. Most of its buyers are similar to the regular luxury buyer, namely successful family in their 50s, but with more budget to spare and more risk taking personalities.

Porsche uses struts for better packaging. There's not enough weight in the front to justify a more complex layout. They still make expensive struts out of forged alloy so they are not cheaping out.
It's hard to define what car enthusiasts are. So it can be said that the M5 is not an enthusiast's car. Most of its buyers are similar to the regular luxury buyer, namely successful family in their 50s, but with more budget to spare and more risk taking personalities.

mediumhot

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

If I went by the gushing media articles alone, I'd say that opinion is nuts. By my brief, limited personal experience, I totally see your point and even tend to agree.

For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been a member of SAMA (Southern Automotive Media Association) and, as such, I've been one of the judges of their Topless in Miami event. This is, basically, a day-long drive-and-compare event of whatever convertible and sunroof vehicles the carmakers deign to bring down. In its 2017 iteration, the "High Performance" category consisted of the Porsche 718 Boxster S versus the Jaguar F-Type SVR. It was a no-contest blowout win by the Jaguar, which also got the overall "Convertible of the Year" title. I remember being totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the Boxster, especially its engine sound, which sounded way more like an old, rear-engined VW Beetle with an EMPI aftermarket exhaust (the 60s equivalent of today's Honda Civics with fart can/coffee can aftermarket exhausts) than anything worthy of its price tag. Hopefully, the older, flat-6 Boxsters are more worthy of the hoopla, but the flat-4 718 was a huge disappointment.

mediumhot

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

If I went by the gushing media articles alone, I'd say that opinion is nuts. By my brief, limited personal experience, I totally see your point and even tend to agree.

For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been a member of SAMA (Southern Automotive Media Association) and, as such, I've been one of the judges of their Topless in Miami event. This is, basically, a day-long drive-and-compare event of whatever convertible and sunroof vehicles the carmakers deign to bring down. In its 2017 iteration, the "High Performance" category consisted of the Porsche 718 Boxster S versus the Jaguar F-Type SVR. It was a no-contest blowout win by the Jaguar, which also got the overall "Convertible of the Year" title. I remember being totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the Boxster, especially its engine sound, which sounded way more like an old, rear-engined VW Beetle with an EMPI aftermarket exhaust (the 60s equivalent of today's Honda Civics with fart can/coffee can aftermarket exhausts) than anything worthy of its price tag. Hopefully, the older, flat-6 Boxsters are more worthy of the hoopla, but the flat-4 718 was a huge disappointment.

mediumhot

Run of the mill Porsches are way overrated. Are they cool cars to own? Yes. Are they cool cars to drive? Yes. Are they anything more special in driving experience than other small sports cars? Not really. To this day original Boxster remains the crappiest two seater I've ever driven.

If I went by the gushing media articles alone, I'd say that opinion is nuts. By my brief, limited personal experience, I totally see your point and even tend to agree.

For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been a member of SAMA (Southern Automotive Media Association) and, as such, I've been one of the judges of their Topless in Miami event. This is, basically, a day-long drive-and-compare event of whatever convertible and sunroof vehicles the carmakers deign to bring down. In its 2017 iteration, the "High Performance" category consisted of the Porsche 718 Boxster S versus the Jaguar F-Type SVR. It was a no-contest blowout win by the Jaguar, which also got the overall "Convertible of the Year" title. I remember being totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the Boxster, especially its engine sound, which sounded way more like an old, rear-engined VW Beetle with an EMPI aftermarket exhaust (the 60s equivalent of today's Honda Civics with fart can/coffee can aftermarket exhausts) than anything worthy of its price tag. Hopefully, the older, flat-6 Boxsters are more worthy of the hoopla, but the flat-4 718 was a huge disappointment.

mediumhot

I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

Definitely agreed! I'm not sure why people expect so much from the ES either. There is so much rumors floating around, especially on CL (secret CL forum reader here), that the ES will have AWD or a new more powerful turbo or V6 engine. It feels like quite a bit of people are predicting a ES F-Sport with AWD and Turbo/high-powered V6.

I feel like majority of this hope or expectation comes from the GS axing rumors. I have seen comments expecting an ES-F, which is insane - no one will probably buy that. (Enthuisasts will welcome it but ignore it. And core demographics wouldn't get near it) But its too hopeful and optimistic to think the ES will get all these upgrades in order to be a replacement for the GS/GS-F. Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love. They need to make it that way to cater to their mass core demographics of buyers; if they didn't, sales would drop.

mediumhot

I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

Definitely agreed! I'm not sure why people expect so much from the ES either. There is so much rumors floating around, especially on CL (secret CL forum reader here), that the ES will have AWD or a new more powerful turbo or V6 engine. It feels like quite a bit of people are predicting a ES F-Sport with AWD and Turbo/high-powered V6.

I feel like majority of this hope or expectation comes from the GS axing rumors. I have seen comments expecting an ES-F, which is insane - no one will probably buy that. (Enthuisasts will welcome it but ignore it. And core demographics wouldn't get near it) But its too hopeful and optimistic to think the ES will get all these upgrades in order to be a replacement for the GS/GS-F. Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love. They need to make it that way to cater to their mass core demographics of buyers; if they didn't, sales would drop.

mediumhot

I'm not sure why people expect from ES to be anything more than ES that has always been. Sure all those GS replacements cancelation rumors have put the new ES in a though spot but it's still your grandpa's favorite land yacht.

Definitely agreed! I'm not sure why people expect so much from the ES either. There is so much rumors floating around, especially on CL (secret CL forum reader here), that the ES will have AWD or a new more powerful turbo or V6 engine. It feels like quite a bit of people are predicting a ES F-Sport with AWD and Turbo/high-powered V6.

I feel like majority of this hope or expectation comes from the GS axing rumors. I have seen comments expecting an ES-F, which is insane - no one will probably buy that. (Enthuisasts will welcome it but ignore it. And core demographics wouldn't get near it) But its too hopeful and optimistic to think the ES will get all these upgrades in order to be a replacement for the GS/GS-F. Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love. They need to make it that way to cater to their mass core demographics of buyers; if they didn't, sales would drop.

Driving the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

A change in the formula.

View the original article post

Driving the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

A change in the formula.

View the original article post

Driving the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

A change in the formula.

View the original article post

Great review. Can you talk about the new Lane Tracing Assist(LTA)? How it compares vs propilot, autopilot, etc?

Great review. Can you talk about the new Lane Tracing Assist(LTA)? How it compares vs propilot, autopilot, etc?

Great review. Can you talk about the new Lane Tracing Assist(LTA)? How it compares vs propilot, autopilot, etc?

Sakura

Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love.

I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.

I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.

krew

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

......

Sakura

Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love.

I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.

I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.

krew

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

......

Sakura

Like you said - the ES will still be that typical land yacht that the older generations love.

I dont get which review out of 500 posted, including one by @krew, made you think that ES is still a boat.

I have read and viewed at least 50 reviews, probably more, and I have yet to see a single one that says that ES handles like old generation, like a boat.

krew

I don't want to hype up the ES F SPORT as this grand performance car, but it's serviceable when looking for an engaging drive -- I think most people on this site will be pleasantly surprised by its ability. And as the person that started Lexus Enthusiast, I would buy an ES F SPORT in a second. :D

......