Video: Matt Farah Reviews the 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT

Sakura

The difference between Porsche and BMW M cars having the Macpherson strut is the Germans are using it to cut cost without any of the negative draw backs of it. Porsche and BMW reworks everything to make sure their cars handle great without feeling the draw-backs of Macpherson struts.
The Lexus ES, Avalon and Camry does not have this rework. Nor it should because its not a track/sporty car.

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.


By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

Photo Gallery: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES Sedan

In all angles and colors.

View the original article post

Photo Gallery: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES Sedan

In all angles and colors.

View the original article post

Photo Gallery: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES Sedan

In all angles and colors.

View the original article post

Photo Gallery: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES Sedan

In all angles and colors.

View the original article post

Those look like the best value rear seats in the car industry. I hope buyers will appreciate the car for that, compared to anything alternative.

Those look like the best value rear seats in the car industry. I hope buyers will appreciate the car for that, compared to anything alternative.

Those look like the best value rear seats in the car industry. I hope buyers will appreciate the car for that, compared to anything alternative.

Those look like the best value rear seats in the car industry. I hope buyers will appreciate the car for that, compared to anything alternative.

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.


By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.

Confident handling, zesty V-6 acceleration, spacious and well-built cabin.

The A6 is a quietly athletic car. Its suspension keeps body roll in check easily in high-speed corners, but its steering wheel broadcasts precious little information from the front wheels. Still, the A6, especially with Quattro all-wheel drive, is predictable and easy to drive quickly on twisty stretches of road. When driven sedately, the A6 coddles its passengers with a ride that even our scarred, winter-beaten Michigan roads can’t perturb.

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-a6-in-depth-model-review

We Like: The subtle, sophisticated style and predictable handling.

Source: http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-a6-2016-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-contender/

The 2017 Audi A6 is a fun car to drive, especially considering its size and heft. Not many midsize luxury sedans forge such a gratifying connection with the driver. One demerit is the car's overly light and numb steering feel under normal circumstances, but we've found that the effort level in the Sport mode is much more to our liking.

Source: https://www.edmunds.com/audi/a6/2017/

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

I never said the ES will compete against the M3s and 911s. That was something you alluded to when you replied to me with this:

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

because I was talking about how the Lexus ES has MacPherson struts.

I'm just merely stating. Just because M3/M4 has MacPherson strut doesn't mean they handle the same as the Lexus ES. The M3/M4 and Porsches were built to handle well and everything was reworked not to have the downsides of MacPherson struts.

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.


By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.

Confident handling, zesty V-6 acceleration, spacious and well-built cabin.

The A6 is a quietly athletic car. Its suspension keeps body roll in check easily in high-speed corners, but its steering wheel broadcasts precious little information from the front wheels. Still, the A6, especially with Quattro all-wheel drive, is predictable and easy to drive quickly on twisty stretches of road. When driven sedately, the A6 coddles its passengers with a ride that even our scarred, winter-beaten Michigan roads can’t perturb.

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-a6-in-depth-model-review

We Like: The subtle, sophisticated style and predictable handling.

Source: http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-a6-2016-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-contender/

The 2017 Audi A6 is a fun car to drive, especially considering its size and heft. Not many midsize luxury sedans forge such a gratifying connection with the driver. One demerit is the car's overly light and numb steering feel under normal circumstances, but we've found that the effort level in the Sport mode is much more to our liking.

Source: https://www.edmunds.com/audi/a6/2017/

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

I never said the ES will compete against the M3s and 911s. That was something you alluded to when you replied to me with this:

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

because I was talking about how the Lexus ES has MacPherson struts.

I'm just merely stating. Just because M3/M4 has MacPherson strut doesn't mean they handle the same as the Lexus ES. The M3/M4 and Porsches were built to handle well and everything was reworked not to have the downsides of MacPherson struts.

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.


By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.

Confident handling, zesty V-6 acceleration, spacious and well-built cabin.

The A6 is a quietly athletic car. Its suspension keeps body roll in check easily in high-speed corners, but its steering wheel broadcasts precious little information from the front wheels. Still, the A6, especially with Quattro all-wheel drive, is predictable and easy to drive quickly on twisty stretches of road. When driven sedately, the A6 coddles its passengers with a ride that even our scarred, winter-beaten Michigan roads can’t perturb.

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-a6-in-depth-model-review

We Like: The subtle, sophisticated style and predictable handling.

Source: http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-a6-2016-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-contender/

The 2017 Audi A6 is a fun car to drive, especially considering its size and heft. Not many midsize luxury sedans forge such a gratifying connection with the driver. One demerit is the car's overly light and numb steering feel under normal circumstances, but we've found that the effort level in the Sport mode is much more to our liking.

Source: https://www.edmunds.com/audi/a6/2017/

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

I never said the ES will compete against the M3s and 911s. That was something you alluded to when you replied to me with this:

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

because I was talking about how the Lexus ES has MacPherson struts.

I'm just merely stating. Just because M3/M4 has MacPherson strut doesn't mean they handle the same as the Lexus ES. The M3/M4 and Porsches were built to handle well and everything was reworked not to have the downsides of MacPherson struts.

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.


By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.

Confident handling, zesty V-6 acceleration, spacious and well-built cabin.

The A6 is a quietly athletic car. Its suspension keeps body roll in check easily in high-speed corners, but its steering wheel broadcasts precious little information from the front wheels. Still, the A6, especially with Quattro all-wheel drive, is predictable and easy to drive quickly on twisty stretches of road. When driven sedately, the A6 coddles its passengers with a ride that even our scarred, winter-beaten Michigan roads can’t perturb.

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-a6-in-depth-model-review

We Like: The subtle, sophisticated style and predictable handling.

Source: http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-a6-2016-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-contender/

The 2017 Audi A6 is a fun car to drive, especially considering its size and heft. Not many midsize luxury sedans forge such a gratifying connection with the driver. One demerit is the car's overly light and numb steering feel under normal circumstances, but we've found that the effort level in the Sport mode is much more to our liking.

Source: https://www.edmunds.com/audi/a6/2017/

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

I never said the ES will compete against the M3s and 911s. That was something you alluded to when you replied to me with this:

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

because I was talking about how the Lexus ES has MacPherson struts.

I'm just merely stating. Just because M3/M4 has MacPherson strut doesn't mean they handle the same as the Lexus ES. The M3/M4 and Porsches were built to handle well and everything was reworked not to have the downsides of MacPherson struts.

Levi

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

As cheap single lower link MacPherson strut compresses and rolls, the tires naturally exhibit positive camber and the car and the tires lean - thereby diminishing grip.
Double wishbone provides geometry to help keep the tires perpendicular to the road surface to maximize grip.
However, double wishbone is less critical when vehicles are "firmly" sprung, because firmly sprung vehicles don't have much compliance nor roll in the first place to increase the positive camber of the tires to reduce grip.
It is the regular 3 Series sedans with a compliant ride where the springs "compress", and double wishbone front suspension is used to try to attain negative camber to maximize grip.

View attachment 2895

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.

By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

I last drove an A6 3.0T Supercharged AWD in 2014.
Very powerful engine.
Nice ride; much more compliant ride than my GS.
Because of that compliance, around corners the A6 had plenty of body roll - however the AWD would grip, grip and grip - it was limpet like!
Not a bad car at all.

I totally agree with you regarding the Acura Vigor with great specs including a longitudinal front mid-engine FWD and double wishbone suspension.
Compare that with ES with simple transverse FWD and cheap single lower link suspension, and look at where the Acura Vigor is now?
It's firstly the badge, secondly the styling, maybe thirdly the interior space, and maybe fourth might be engine performance that sells; especially for success of the ES, E Class and 5 Series.
The Acura Vigor totally lost it in the styling, and things worsened when the TL reverted to conventional transverse FWD with cheap single lower link suspension.

For sales to mums & dads and the mass market, the ES is great.
As a genuine driver's car - the ES is not designed to be such.

Levi

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

As cheap single lower link MacPherson strut compresses and rolls, the tires naturally exhibit positive camber and the car and the tires lean - thereby diminishing grip.
Double wishbone provides geometry to help keep the tires perpendicular to the road surface to maximize grip.
However, double wishbone is less critical when vehicles are "firmly" sprung, because firmly sprung vehicles don't have much compliance nor roll in the first place to increase the positive camber of the tires to reduce grip.
It is the regular 3 Series sedans with a compliant ride where the springs "compress", and double wishbone front suspension is used to try to attain negative camber to maximize grip.

View attachment 2895

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.

By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

I last drove an A6 3.0T Supercharged AWD in 2014.
Very powerful engine.
Nice ride; much more compliant ride than my GS.
Because of that compliance, around corners the A6 had plenty of body roll - however the AWD would grip, grip and grip - it was limpet like!
Not a bad car at all.

I totally agree with you regarding the Acura Vigor with great specs including a longitudinal front mid-engine FWD and double wishbone suspension.
Compare that with ES with simple transverse FWD and cheap single lower link suspension, and look at where the Acura Vigor is now?
It's firstly the badge, secondly the styling, maybe thirdly the interior space, and maybe fourth might be engine performance that sells; especially for success of the ES, E Class and 5 Series.
The Acura Vigor totally lost it in the styling, and things worsened when the TL reverted to conventional transverse FWD with cheap single lower link suspension.

For sales to mums & dads and the mass market, the ES is great.
As a genuine driver's car - the ES is not designed to be such.

Levi

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

As cheap single lower link MacPherson strut compresses and rolls, the tires naturally exhibit positive camber and the car and the tires lean - thereby diminishing grip.
Double wishbone provides geometry to help keep the tires perpendicular to the road surface to maximize grip.
However, double wishbone is less critical when vehicles are "firmly" sprung, because firmly sprung vehicles don't have much compliance nor roll in the first place to increase the positive camber of the tires to reduce grip.
It is the regular 3 Series sedans with a compliant ride where the springs "compress", and double wishbone front suspension is used to try to attain negative camber to maximize grip.

View attachment 2895

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.

By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

I last drove an A6 3.0T Supercharged AWD in 2014.
Very powerful engine.
Nice ride; much more compliant ride than my GS.
Because of that compliance, around corners the A6 had plenty of body roll - however the AWD would grip, grip and grip - it was limpet like!
Not a bad car at all.

I totally agree with you regarding the Acura Vigor with great specs including a longitudinal front mid-engine FWD and double wishbone suspension.
Compare that with ES with simple transverse FWD and cheap single lower link suspension, and look at where the Acura Vigor is now?
It's firstly the badge, secondly the styling, maybe thirdly the interior space, and maybe fourth might be engine performance that sells; especially for success of the ES, E Class and 5 Series.
The Acura Vigor totally lost it in the styling, and things worsened when the TL reverted to conventional transverse FWD with cheap single lower link suspension.

For sales to mums & dads and the mass market, the ES is great.
As a genuine driver's car - the ES is not designed to be such.

Levi

Not really true. M3/M4 has MacPherson strut. And many 'cheap' Japanese had double wishbone all round, even for FWD cars.

As cheap single lower link MacPherson strut compresses and rolls, the tires naturally exhibit positive camber and the car and the tires lean - thereby diminishing grip.
Double wishbone provides geometry to help keep the tires perpendicular to the road surface to maximize grip.
However, double wishbone is less critical when vehicles are "firmly" sprung, because firmly sprung vehicles don't have much compliance nor roll in the first place to increase the positive camber of the tires to reduce grip.
It is the regular 3 Series sedans with a compliant ride where the springs "compress", and double wishbone front suspension is used to try to attain negative camber to maximize grip.

View attachment 2895

Levi

I have driven the A6 3.0 TDI. Had Quattro, double wishbone suspension. I have never driven a worse executive sedan (for the price). Harsh ride, week handling. Overpriced rubbish. I am not aware the the ES will compete against M3s and 911s.

By the way, the Acura Vigor that competed against the Lexus ES (XV10) had FMF-L layout, better than Audi's FF-L layout, and double wishbone front suspension, it was very sporty. Look where it is today, and where the ES is!

I last drove an A6 3.0T Supercharged AWD in 2014.
Very powerful engine.
Nice ride; much more compliant ride than my GS.
Because of that compliance, around corners the A6 had plenty of body roll - however the AWD would grip, grip and grip - it was limpet like!
Not a bad car at all.

I totally agree with you regarding the Acura Vigor with great specs including a longitudinal front mid-engine FWD and double wishbone suspension.
Compare that with ES with simple transverse FWD and cheap single lower link suspension, and look at where the Acura Vigor is now?
It's firstly the badge, secondly the styling, maybe thirdly the interior space, and maybe fourth might be engine performance that sells; especially for success of the ES, E Class and 5 Series.
The Acura Vigor totally lost it in the styling, and things worsened when the TL reverted to conventional transverse FWD with cheap single lower link suspension.

For sales to mums & dads and the mass market, the ES is great.
As a genuine driver's car - the ES is not designed to be such.

Welcome new member! @peterharvey

Welcome new member! @peterharvey

Welcome new member! @peterharvey

Welcome new member! @peterharvey

Sakura

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.
....

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

lol... and so does 2019 ES, according to the magazines. Which in the case ES you ignore completely.

Not to mention that 5 german articles I read about 2019 ES in past week all talk how it has fine interior with quality materials and workmanship, as well as good suspension.... and all to the point say it will compete with A6, E class and 5 series.


@peterharvey did you get banned from CL finally?

Sakura

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.
....

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

lol... and so does 2019 ES, according to the magazines. Which in the case ES you ignore completely.

Not to mention that 5 german articles I read about 2019 ES in past week all talk how it has fine interior with quality materials and workmanship, as well as good suspension.... and all to the point say it will compete with A6, E class and 5 series.


@peterharvey did you get banned from CL finally?

Sakura

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.
....

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

lol... and so does 2019 ES, according to the magazines. Which in the case ES you ignore completely.

Not to mention that 5 german articles I read about 2019 ES in past week all talk how it has fine interior with quality materials and workmanship, as well as good suspension.... and all to the point say it will compete with A6, E class and 5 series.


@peterharvey did you get banned from CL finally?

Sakura

Well - according to car magazines - the Audi A6 handles pretty good.
....

Audi A6 handling from reviews have been positive.

lol... and so does 2019 ES, according to the magazines. Which in the case ES you ignore completely.

Not to mention that 5 german articles I read about 2019 ES in past week all talk how it has fine interior with quality materials and workmanship, as well as good suspension.... and all to the point say it will compete with A6, E class and 5 series.


@peterharvey did you get banned from CL finally?

peterharvey

I have a feeling that the ES will only reach a certain limit in sales.
Eg, at their best, they sold about 80k units/year USA.

Keep in mind that E Class & 5 Series are breathing on ES's back with peak annual sales of 69k & 57k respectively.
Thus, to get more midsize luxury sales, Lexus will still need RWD with double wishbone front suspension.

are you trying to say that their goal of 50k/year in the US is somehow not good enough or something?

peterharvey

I have a feeling that the ES will only reach a certain limit in sales.
Eg, at their best, they sold about 80k units/year USA.

Keep in mind that E Class & 5 Series are breathing on ES's back with peak annual sales of 69k & 57k respectively.
Thus, to get more midsize luxury sales, Lexus will still need RWD with double wishbone front suspension.

are you trying to say that their goal of 50k/year in the US is somehow not good enough or something?

peterharvey

I have a feeling that the ES will only reach a certain limit in sales.
Eg, at their best, they sold about 80k units/year USA.

Keep in mind that E Class & 5 Series are breathing on ES's back with peak annual sales of 69k & 57k respectively.
Thus, to get more midsize luxury sales, Lexus will still need RWD with double wishbone front suspension.

are you trying to say that their goal of 50k/year in the US is somehow not good enough or something?

peterharvey

I have a feeling that the ES will only reach a certain limit in sales.
Eg, at their best, they sold about 80k units/year USA.

Keep in mind that E Class & 5 Series are breathing on ES's back with peak annual sales of 69k & 57k respectively.
Thus, to get more midsize luxury sales, Lexus will still need RWD with double wishbone front suspension.

are you trying to say that their goal of 50k/year in the US is somehow not good enough or something?

spwolf

lol... and so does 2019 ES, according to the magazines. Which in the case ES you ignore completely.

Not to mention that 5 german articles I read about 2019 ES in past week all talk how it has fine interior with quality materials and workmanship, as well as good suspension.... and all to the point say it will compete with A6, E class and 5 series.

@peterharvey did you get banned from CL finally?

Why you putting words in my mouth? I didn't ignore the reviews. I have clearly stated, and this is about the 5th time you made me repeat myself, that the Lexus ES handles pretty well and better than predecessors but its not a handling king - like the Civic Type R.

Please refer back to what I said:

The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.

This means - that I was trying to challenge your narrative that you think the Lexus ES / ES F-Sport is an insanely good handling car. All I'm saying is - the Lexus ES is handles well but not good like other handling cars are better step-up for it.

spwolf

are you trying to say that their goal of 50k/year in the US is somehow not good enough or something?

I don't think Pete was saying 50K/year sales are bad. I think hes saying that if the Lexus ES wants to do better than 50K/year sales - it needs to do more.