Lexus USA Announces 2019 ES 350 & ES 300h Pricing

ssun30

I fully respect opinions of other people and won't try to (I've given up) argue anymore that Lexus is doing what makes the most financial sense. I do believe the ES launch is not a strong one. No I'm not talking about ES-F or AWD, I'm talking about the lack of EV or PHEV-not even a concept-to catch all the buzz, no fancier rear seat options like a recliner with lumbar and leg support, that bin part steering wheel that appears on a UX all the way up to a LS, along with some questionable work done by their PR department. But it's not a weak launch either, it just makes too much sense.

I guess most of the media criticism will be about the obvious lack of EV or PHEV variant when every other competitor will be offering one. I don't think any them will scream "OH NO TWIN-TURBO RWD WAGON IT SUCKS BRING BACK THE V8 GS!".

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

Gecko

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

Gecko

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

Gecko

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

Gecko

Very well stated. Adding a few other things...

Lack of comment on product or portfolio placement with this new ES is actually not a good thing. Of course, Lexus doesn't want to blatantly say they're pulling the plug on the GS - even if just temporarily - but until they issue some type of statement that the ES is becoming Lexus' de facto midsize sedan, people are going to assume it's replacing the GS and then the first drives will probably be a free-for-all talking about torque steer and everything else. Lexus needs to clarify this car's position so that the media will evaluate it for what it is instead of railing it against what it isn't.

Second, the omission of AWD is glaring. This is significantly worse than the lack of CarPlay on the LS when it debuted on the Avalon 2 months later. This ES is replacing the GS in most of the world, and many of those markets demand AWD. I hear AWD will come later, but for now - at launch - when there is critical mass and all eyes/ears are tuned in - this is a huge blunder for Lexus.

Third, why did Lexus bother to blow smoke about all new hybrid powertrains when every single 2019 ES engine option is just a carryover from the Camry and Avalon? Same exact 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 from the Camry and the same exact hybrid powertrain from the Avalon. None of this is new. No 2.0T, no 2.5TT... nothing.

I don't want to understate the fact that I think this ES is a very nice car, because it really is. They did a great job and it's probably going to be a category killer. It will print money for them, without a doubt.

However, Lexus' inability to clearly define this car's place in the lineup, the absence of new globally-minded powertrain options and the omission of AWD paint a picture of another half-baked Lexus product that they're sheepishly hiding behind.

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I will keep it simple. As Levi, Gecko and one or two others stated, and I hate to bust anyone's bubble. No More GS, for the immediate future. The Sportier, more powerful ES, & ES F sport is suppose to fill that void. Unfortunately. This Is Not an Opinion BTW. ;)

I will keep it simple. As Levi, Gecko and one or two others stated, and I hate to bust anyone's bubble. No More GS, for the immediate future. The Sportier, more powerful ES, & ES F sport is suppose to fill that void. Unfortunately. This Is Not an Opinion BTW. ;)

I will keep it simple. As Levi, Gecko and one or two others stated, and I hate to bust anyone's bubble. No More GS, for the immediate future. The Sportier, more powerful ES, & ES F sport is suppose to fill that void. Unfortunately. This Is Not an Opinion BTW. ;)

I will keep it simple. As Levi, Gecko and one or two others stated, and I hate to bust anyone's bubble. No More GS, for the immediate future. The Sportier, more powerful ES, & ES F sport is suppose to fill that void. Unfortunately. This Is Not an Opinion BTW. ;)

Sander

They made a mistake not making it AWD or RWD

That would be the GS. I don't get why people want the ES to be RWD, have the fit and finish of the LS and to have a lower entry price. It cost $$$ to make a RWD platform with the proper components. If the ES were to be RWD and to have the quality that it has now, it would be priced closed to the GS.

Sander

They made a mistake not making it AWD or RWD

That would be the GS. I don't get why people want the ES to be RWD, have the fit and finish of the LS and to have a lower entry price. It cost $$$ to make a RWD platform with the proper components. If the ES were to be RWD and to have the quality that it has now, it would be priced closed to the GS.

Sander

They made a mistake not making it AWD or RWD

That would be the GS. I don't get why people want the ES to be RWD, have the fit and finish of the LS and to have a lower entry price. It cost $$$ to make a RWD platform with the proper components. If the ES were to be RWD and to have the quality that it has now, it would be priced closed to the GS.

Sander

They made a mistake not making it AWD or RWD

That would be the GS. I don't get why people want the ES to be RWD, have the fit and finish of the LS and to have a lower entry price. It cost $$$ to make a RWD platform with the proper components. If the ES were to be RWD and to have the quality that it has now, it would be priced closed to the GS.

Exterior is beautiful but interior big disappointment.

Exterior is beautiful but interior big disappointment.

Exterior is beautiful but interior big disappointment.

Exterior is beautiful but interior big disappointment.

spwolf

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

spwolf

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

spwolf

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

spwolf

- GS be it RWD or AWD sold really poorly worldwide. Only real market was US and that dropped too. So nobody cared about GS in Europe (well I had one). It sold poorly even in Russia. So to replace GS, they dont really need to do much. It was never a contender in first place.

- Worldwide buyers and media did not care about torque steer in best selling NX and RX 2.0t or Hybrids so why would they care about it in ES?

- Engines carryover? I dont understand. Hybrid is improved over Camry one for Avalon and ES. All these engines are less than a year old. Do you really think that Toyota should do all new engine for every car they make? 2.0 TDI is in every VW, Skoda, Audi product that exists. I dont understand the argument.


I completely agree that they should have done crazy 2.5tt 350hp AWD F version that every media outlet in the world would show... but you know what? That does not sell cars. We have a proof with GS and RC that F versions will not sell other cars in the lineup.

What they needed to do is good base version, with good base engines and good interior/exteriors.

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

emptystreets130

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

emptystreets130

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

emptystreets130

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

emptystreets130

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

I feel like there haven't been enough good photos released of the non F-Sport car to gauge what the interior really looks like. I saw a few of the tan/brown, but what about gray, or Noble Brown? More angles, more colors and more details, please.

I do not care for the swoosh that runs across the center stack and don't quite understand why it's there. Also, the door panels seem really flat and rather shapeless.