Lexus USA Announces 2019 ES 350 & ES 300h Pricing

Posted by Kevin on July 27th, 2018

The all-new 2019 Lexus ES 350 will arrive in U.S. dealerships this September with a base price of $39,500, just $550 more than the outgoing model. The all-new ES 350 F SPORT package will be a $4,535 option, for a starting price of $44,035.

Pricing for the hybrid ES 300h has also been announced at $41,310 USD, making for a $510 decrease compared to its predecessor.

All prices exclude a $1,025 fee for delivery, processing and handling.

Lexus ES: Sixth Generation
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Comments
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
S
Levi
I agree that carmakers are pushing AWS, but is does provide improvements (see Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari). Now if you complain about carmakers pushing features on customers that we could live without, I agree. But then let them strip all the other features, like electric heating ventilating seats, steering wheel, armrest, huge rims with rubber bands, displays, gimmick lighting, all features sold for "safety" reasons,... the list is almost endless.
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
L
spwolf
i trust you are in europe since you are mentioning Talisman? I mean it is not a luxury car. I dont think anyone cares that it has AWS at all.
Audi's or BMWs or MBs in this class dont have AWS, so I dont think how that equates to heated seats.


it is particular luxurious vehicle... and it is selling pretty poorly. Attached is the one my friend has.
ssun30
Well, you just listed the reason why AWS is not a priority feature. Manufacturers know well which feature are more desirable for the money, and they prioritize those that people are willing to pay extra money for.

AWS will happen at some point, we just need to be patient.
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars. AWS is not crucial, but better than many other features for me, so would come top on the list of not necessary features. The problem I have, it the Germans will sell AWS as the next best thing, and they were 'first'. VAG has AWS on all its expensive cars and it will trickle down on the next A4. I also expect the next 3 Series to get AWS optionally, it will no more be related to the FWD 1 Series, but the RWD 5 Series. Normal customer will never know that Talisman also has AWS (or had it before). Normal customer will not know that even the Megane in RS guise, has AWS. Nothing can beat German marketing, I and dislike it, because it is deceptive. I also dislike feature 'brands', like 4Control, Renault's rear-wheel-steering. Which customer can understand what it means? And without repeating it like the Germans, a customer will not remember. Every generic customer that has once shopped for a new car, and considered AWD, has heard of Quattro. Porsche for example is also guilty of dumbing down customers, with all their abbreviations, when all the customer cares about is the Porsche badge. Only those interested/working in the field know what something stands for and what it really does.

Why I mention AWS with regards to the ES, is because according to Lexus, whether it replaces the GS' customers or not, the goal is to bring a younger customer. I expect the ES to be not only comfortable, but also sportier and better handling. AWS, with would help. AWD more helps with grip, not handling (unless torque vectoring).

PS: I am not bashing German engineering. They are very good, world class at machinery, components, automation, whatever a lot of high tech, but cars are not what they do well/better than others. Their carmakers are specially good at marketing. Their 'deceptive' marketing (and other dirty tricks, hint: media) blows everything out of the water.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
S
Levi
Yes I am in Europe.

I will not die without AWS, but the same way I will not die without AWD. That does not mean AWD cannot be beneficial, nor that AWS is not beneficial. Subaru made AWD cars long before any other car makers, and made it their USP. Customers (not enthusiast) are not always informed about new technology/features, but were recently 'sold' AWD as the latest German thing (Quattro/xDrive/4Matic) that will make you drive like Alonso in any condition (not true). I have always liked the possibilities given by AWS (passive/active mechanical/electric rear wheel-steering), and the Japanese, especially Honda made it on many cars.
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.
L
spwolf
Toyota is very bad at selling things that have low take rate. It ties up R&D and manufacturing and instead of doing that they can offer the car for cheaper with more standard features.

For instance I think with 4GS, RWS was very hard to find since it had very low take rate. Same for night vision and stuff like that.

With ES, they have to make sure they basics are right, not just the top end version. Something that Renault did not get with their Talisman for instance, so the resale value is in the drain right now.
I'm sorry for not being able to articulate my thoughts clearly. I hope this example will help.

Carguide March 2005 - Lexus GS 430 Review
But we wonder about the rear-view camera on the test car. Some people say they are essential on four-wheel drives, to stop people backing over their children in the driveway. But a gimmick is still a gimmick. And will people actually rely on the camera for reversing and bump-free parking once they have shown it off to their friends?
Source (March 2005): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/lexus-shapes-up-to-luxury-rivals-8688

Carguide March 2015 - Why rear cameras should be compulsory on all cars
Emma Cockburn, the mother of a 15-month-old killed in a driveway reversing accident four years ago, has renewed calls for rear cameras to become compulsory. [...]The US will make rear-view cameras compulsory on all passenger vehicles from 2018.
Source (March 2015): https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-rear-cameras-should-be-compulsory-on-all-cars-31401


Now, you hear your neighbor talk about how great his A Class because of its backup camera and trunk that opens with his foot, and why German cars are the best.


It is the wrong thread to discuss about tech, whether it is necessary or not. Unfortunately tech is mostly a marketing tool. Some tech can be good, but too expensive for the customer that cares about the badge only or the basics at least, and as you say, is just not worth the development, that has to be integrated in the supply chain of a mass produced vehicle.

But back to tech and Toyota's new mechanical AWD for FF-T cars, do you think torque vectoring is really worthy and necessary? Is it really more simple and less complicated? If it were, it could have been standard on RC-F, rather than optional, unless Lexus wants to make some good profit, which is justifiable for a business. I doubt customers would notice any difference between in real world usage. But media with their technical tests will point out that Toyota has an inferior and outdated system, so Toyota has no choice but to upgrade.

L