What Does the New Toyota Crown Mean for the Next-Generation Lexus GS?

Posted by Kevin on June 28th, 2018

Toyota has just released a next-generation Crown sedan exclusively for the Japanese market, making it the second such model I’ve posted about this week. However, unlike the Toyota Century, this new sedan might actually make an impact on the Lexus lineup.

There has been much discussion on the future of the Lexus GS, and that makes the Toyota Crown very important indeed. The two models have shared platforms and engines since 1993, this new Crown has been extensively redeveloped. It now uses a modified version of the GA-L platform from the new Lexus LS sedan & LC coupe, and the same hybrid powertrain also offered on both Lexus flagships. For all intents and purposes, this Toyota is already a Lexus underneath the sheet metal.

Not to discount the additional development required, but the Crown offers a basic shell that could be used for a next-generation Lexus GS. Exterior and interior styling would have to change, but then that plays exactly into the brand’s strengths. It should be noted that Lexus no longer needs a second mid-size sedan, but the GS could be refactored into a four-door coupe and be elevated to a more prestigious (and lucrative) segment.

It may all be in the timing, as Lexus has brought out three new cars (LC, LS, ES) into a market that prefers SUVs and crossovers. There’s been an understandable shift in priority for the brand, with the focus now shifting to the UX and the fast-tracked production version of the LF-1 Limitless crossover. But the pendulum will swing back at some point, and with the Toyota Crown, Lexus can easily have a new GS just waiting in the wings.

Lexus GS: Fourth Generation
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Comments
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
S
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Gecko
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer. A full-size sports sedan doesn't make sense anymore. The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS. ABB will keep bloating their mid-size 3/A4/C as 5/A6/E grow to full-size. Current generation GS has the best ride quality in its class because it is also the smallest. If Lexus really wants to kill it, then bloating the IS will be the logical move.
The problem is, this IS-L will be even more expensive and become another victim of ES's success. It's just too hard to avoid collateral damage when the ES is too competitive at its price range.
ES is the problem Lexus is lucky to have, sadly.
Joaquin Ruhi
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer...The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS.
They're currently all closer together in size than you'd think. The 3rd-gen Lexus IS sits on a 2800 mm (110.2") wheelbase, while the current Mark X and 4th-gen Lexus GS share a 2850 mm (112.2") wheelbase, and the outgoing Crown Royal/Athlete use a slightly longer 2860 mm (112.6") wheelbase.

In overall length, the "stepladder' is as follows:
3IS: 4,665 mm (183.7 in)
Mark X: 4,750 mm (187.0 in)
4GS: 4,850 mm (190.9 in)
Crown14: 4,885 mm (192 in)

In width (excluding outside mirrors), Mark X and Crown are a bit narrower, a natural given their JDM/Asia orientation. Here are the numbers:
Mark X: 1,795 mm (70.7 in)
Crown14: 1,800 mm (71 in)
3IS: 1,810 mm (71.3 in)
4GS: 1,840 mm (72.4 in)

Enough of the present, though. Let's shift towards the future. The transitions from N/New N to TNGA-L platforms imply longer wheelbases (given the kinda/sorta front-mid-engine placement) combined with less overhangs to minimize increases in overall length. Based on the Crown Concept dimensions, the Crown14 (N platform) to Crown15 (TNGA-L) transition implies a 2.4" longer wheelbase and a 1.3" increase in overall length.

Stepping aside for a bit, let's review what's happening with the N-to-TNGA-L transitions. Lexus LS and Toyota Crown are the first ones we know about.
(Crown Athlete and Royal, like Lexus ES, seem to be on an inviolable, clockwork-like 4-to-6-year cycle). Lexus IS is a given, it's safe to say. Lexus' 5GS and Toyota's Mark X, however, seem to be in a state of flux and indecision where Toyota's not sure how to proceed. With all due respect, Mark X is not so much a smaller GS/Crown as it is a sportier, rebodied Crown alternative with reduced overhangs that sells in a different JDM Toyota dealer network from Crown. The current-generation Mark X has been around since October 2009 (2010 model year), with facelifts for the 2013 and 2017 model years. Also notable is that the Chinese market version of Mark X, the Toyota Reiz was a flop whose production ended last week, per Wikipedia.

It's probable, as ssun30 suggests, that Lexus' 4IS will see yet another growth spurt vs its predecessor. Toyota, as stated earlier, is probably struggling with a decision on what to do with the next generations of Toyota Mark X and Lexus GS, large sedans in a crossover and SUV-mad world. Assuming they both survive, ssun30 might be on to something in suggesting that Mark X could align itself closer to IS and morph into something clearly smaller than Crown and Lexus GS. In that scenario, Toyota/Lexus TNGA-L sedan pairings would come in 3 sizes as follows:

Small: 3rd-gen Toyota Mark X / 4th-gen Lexus IS
Medium: 15th-gen Toyota Crown Athlete and Royal / 5th-gen Lexus GS
Large: 7th-gen Toyota Crown Majesta / 5th-gen Lexus LS
Joaquin Ruhi
ssun30
IS-L would be the answer...The Mark X (and the Mark II family before it) has the 'right' size for a sports sedan: bigger than the IS but smaller than the Crown/GS.
They're currently all closer together in size than you'd think. The 3rd-gen Lexus IS sits on a 2800 mm (110.2") wheelbase, while the current Mark X and 4th-gen Lexus GS share a 2850 mm (112.2") wheelbase, and the outgoing Crown Royal/Athlete use a slightly longer 2860 mm (112.6") wheelbase.

In overall length, the "stepladder' is as follows:
3IS: 4,665 mm (183.7 in)
Mark X: 4,750 mm (187.0 in)
4GS: 4,850 mm (190.9 in)
Crown14: 4,885 mm (192 in)

In width (excluding outside mirrors), Mark X and Crown are a bit narrower, a natural given their JDM/Asia orientation. Here are the numbers:
Mark X: 1,795 mm (70.7 in)
Crown14: 1,800 mm (71 in)
3IS: 1,810 mm (71.3 in)
4GS: 1,840 mm (72.4 in)

Enough of the present, though. Let's shift towards the future. The transitions from N/New N to TNGA-L platforms imply longer wheelbases (given the kinda/sorta front-mid-engine placement) combined with less overhangs to minimize increases in overall length. Based on the Crown Concept dimensions, the Crown14 (N platform) to Crown15 (TNGA-L) transition implies a 2.4" longer wheelbase and a 1.3" increase in overall length.

Stepping aside for a bit, let's review what's happening with the N-to-TNGA-L transitions. Lexus LS and Toyota Crown are the first ones we know about.
(Crown Athlete and Royal, like Lexus ES, seem to be on an inviolable, clockwork-like 4-to-6-year cycle). Lexus IS is a given, it's safe to say. Lexus' 5GS and Toyota's Mark X, however, seem to be in a state of flux and indecision where Toyota's not sure how to proceed. With all due respect, Mark X is not so much a smaller GS/Crown as it is a sportier, rebodied Crown alternative with reduced overhangs that sells in a different JDM Toyota dealer network from Crown. The current-generation Mark X has been around since October 2009 (2010 model year), with facelifts for the 2013 and 2017 model years. Also notable is that the Chinese market version of Mark X, the Toyota Reiz was a flop whose production ended last week, per Wikipedia.

It's probable, as ssun30 suggests, that Lexus' 4IS will see yet another growth spurt vs its predecessor. Toyota, as stated earlier, is probably struggling with a decision on what to do with the next generations of Toyota Mark X and Lexus GS, large sedans in a crossover and SUV-mad world. Assuming they both survive, ssun30 might be on to something in suggesting that Mark X could align itself closer to IS and morph into something clearly smaller than Crown and Lexus GS. In that scenario, Toyota/Lexus TNGA-L sedan pairings would come in 3 sizes as follows:

Small: 3rd-gen Toyota Mark X / 4th-gen Lexus IS
Medium: 15th-gen Toyota Crown Athlete and Royal / 5th-gen Lexus GS
Large: 7th-gen Toyota Crown Majesta / 5th-gen Lexus LS

J