Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

Posted by Kevin on June 25th, 2018

Now two weeks after the first reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES hit the Internet, let’s look at some more driving impressions of the new sedan.

Pat Devereux of Top Gear could not have been more effusive in his review of the ES 300h:

This is a moment for you to consider what driving you really do, rather than what you would like to do, but don’t. While [Top Gear] will go to its grave defending your right to having a drift-worthy V8 that consumes tyres and petrol in equal measure, there are some of us who just want or need to get somewhere in the least stressful way possible. Often with luggage and passengers. For those people, cars like the Volvo S90 and now the new Lexus ES are not just a sensible choice, but the correct one.

The Gear Patrol review from Alex Kalogiannis is even-handed and sensible:

The legacy of the ES is secure. Within its element, it’s the best its ever been with contemporary looks and tech conveniences. The F Sport accoutrement only improves things, as long as buyers go in with the right expectations. The ride is smooth, the cabin is a comfortable place to be and it’s easy to see why Lexus loyalists have stuck with it for a few decades. This generation ES is far from a radical upgrade, but as [Chief Engineer] Sakakibara-san states, the pleasure is in the little things it consistently gets right.

Lexus ES Hybrid

Jake Lingeman from Autoweek has posted a very positive review of the ES, but what I wanted to highlight is his take on the Remote Touch controller:

There’s been a lot said about Lexus’ patented mouse pad/slider-joystick infotainment control, and I have a few opinions of my own. The first generation was not good. You had to look at the slider and the screen to find the right time to click. The company added little faux detents, so the cursor would sort of stick on the function you were looking for. It got better. Then it increased the screen size a few years ago to the 12.3 inches and got rid of the joystick/slider for a finger-controlled mouse pad. There was too much ground to cover. Now it’s refined again with separate screen divisions, with little tactile vibrations on the mouse pad where the screens meet so you sort of know where you are.

It wasn’t completely intuitive, but after a day in the car I was…serviceable with it. A week or so and it might be second nature. Whether it should take a week to learn how to use it is another issue. I think that’s an average amount of time; some in the office think that’s too long.

Lexus ES: Sixth Generation
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Comments
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
S
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Here shows platform mates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform

For instance new A1 interior is very much a Seat. Obviously higher end Audi's are spared of this issue.

edit: also unlike Toyota, they are not pushing higher end parts into lower end vehicles so for instance T-Roc which is C-HR competitor has torsion beam rear suspension in FWD models and handles worse than C-HR, something that even European press had to admit. Which is quite a turn of events.

You can also check topgear site which shows pics:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/explained-vw-groups-mqb-platform
S
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Here shows platform mates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform

For instance new A1 interior is very much a Seat. Obviously higher end Audi's are spared of this issue.

edit: also unlike Toyota, they are not pushing higher end parts into lower end vehicles so for instance T-Roc which is C-HR competitor has torsion beam rear suspension in FWD models and handles worse than C-HR, something that even European press had to admit. Which is quite a turn of events.

You can also check topgear site which shows pics:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/explained-vw-groups-mqb-platform
S
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Here shows platform mates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform

For instance new A1 interior is very much a Seat. Obviously higher end Audi's are spared of this issue.

edit: also unlike Toyota, they are not pushing higher end parts into lower end vehicles so for instance T-Roc which is C-HR competitor has torsion beam rear suspension in FWD models and handles worse than C-HR, something that even European press had to admit. Which is quite a turn of events.

You can also check topgear site which shows pics:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/explained-vw-groups-mqb-platform
S
Ian Schmidt
Oh, ok. In the US we had that from GM in the 70s and 80s where they made basically the same car with different front-end assemblies as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and sometimes Cadillac (and I see the curse of the J-Body also extended to Europe, Australia, and Japan). Is there a good website to check out the VAG platform sharing?
Here shows platform mates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform

For instance new A1 interior is very much a Seat. Obviously higher end Audi's are spared of this issue.

edit: also unlike Toyota, they are not pushing higher end parts into lower end vehicles so for instance T-Roc which is C-HR competitor has torsion beam rear suspension in FWD models and handles worse than C-HR, something that even European press had to admit. Which is quite a turn of events.

You can also check topgear site which shows pics:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/explained-vw-groups-mqb-platform
M
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
M
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
M
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
M
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
S
mediumhot
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
It is hard to understand how you think that Camry and ES are exact same cars under 2 different bages. I wish it was true, I would get Camry right away.
S
mediumhot
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
It is hard to understand how you think that Camry and ES are exact same cars under 2 different bages. I wish it was true, I would get Camry right away.
S
mediumhot
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
It is hard to understand how you think that Camry and ES are exact same cars under 2 different bages. I wish it was true, I would get Camry right away.
S
mediumhot
It's my understanding that many Lexus customers in Europe come from Toyota culture. Now for the first time ever Toyota is giving them the chance to pick exact same car under 2 different badges. If equipped as same as in US Camry in Europe will be considered a luxury vehicle, not a premium vehicle like Lexus but for sure a luxury vehicle much like LC Prado and LC V8 are. There will be some cannibalization.
It is hard to understand how you think that Camry and ES are exact same cars under 2 different bages. I wish it was true, I would get Camry right away.
Ian Schmidt
Yeah, the ES is Avalon-based, which is already a step above Camry.
Ian Schmidt
Yeah, the ES is Avalon-based, which is already a step above Camry.
Ian Schmidt
Yeah, the ES is Avalon-based, which is already a step above Camry.
Ian Schmidt
Yeah, the ES is Avalon-based, which is already a step above Camry.
krew
krew

Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h
[​IMG]

Three strong reviews.
View the original article post
krew
krew

Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h
[​IMG]

Three strong reviews.
View the original article post
krew
krew

Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h
[​IMG]

Three strong reviews.
View the original article post
krew
krew

Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h
[​IMG]

Three strong reviews.
View the original article post
L
Will Europe get the ES 350? I know that Europe never had any 350 without hybrid, so only 450h.
S
spwolf
It certainly does not compete with A4, but it does compete with A6 and other cars in the class... I suggest you go to the dealership and talk to the people there what are they cross-shopping ES with.

As to why I think that, it is because I live in Europe, and your competitors do not exist here. As I mentioned several times so far, all European magazines are calling it A6/E/5 competitor, and I personally think it is delusional to thank that majority of people buying base models of these vehicles are buying it for RWD or handling characteristics, and even then that they are not drastically different from new ES.

Now if we are talking about higher end of the market, like 540i or 535d, then it is another story, but these days those buyers are in minority, especially in Europe, where these vehicles are mostly sold with 2.0 tdi engines.
Maybe because you live in Europe and this is why we are having a difference of opinion. The thing is - Europe sees the Lexus ES as a A6, 5, and E competition because Lexus is axing the GS there and selling the ES there for the first time. When you cancel something and add something that has never been sold there, its likely people will think "similar competition." However - that doesn't make it an actually competitor to the A6, 5, and E. A car competes within its segment because of the traits it shares with the other vehicles.

The GS better competes with the A6, 5 and E because it offers RWD and AWD. The A6 is in there because of its longitudinal FWD and AWD system. The driving dynamics, the size, the luxury, the craftmenship, and etc... all play a role in how the car competes within a segment.

While I agree that majority of people buying a base model of these vehicles aren't buying it for the RWD or handling, it doesn't mean the ES competes directly with the A6, 5 and E.

And I disagree. RWD/AWD and longitudinal FWD/AWD is drastically different from each other. Its mechanically impossible for the 2019 Lexus ES to handle as good as a Lexus GS or BMW 5 Series because of the way the Lexus ES is set up. Now don't take this the wrong way - I'm not saying the Lexus ES don't handle good. It handles well for what it is - a luxury sedan. But in no way its a "sporty" luxury sedan. And that's fine - it doesn't have to handle like the GS, 5, E and A6 because it'll do great without handling like them. I'm not sure why people want the ES to be those cars when its never intended to be those cars.
L
@Sakura Cars do not have to be the same to compete for the same target customer. 1 Series is RWD and competes against FWD A Class. But you start sounding like a broken record. Nobody on here disputes the fact that the ES is not the same as the GS or the German rivals you mention, but they nonetheless compete with each other. If the RWD is so important, why did Lexus sell (in Europe) only 12K units in 6 years?


The ES the same size as the A6 in every measure. The new S6 gets only turbo V6.
R
All very I there's ting and pretty positive overall - so far so good.
Have been watching Tesla road tests on you tube - pretty impressive looks like the future what is Lexus planning so as not to be left behind? The Tesla is good looking , apparently virtually silent and extremely swift. Impressive despite various negative reports I have read, if they get this car fully sorted they are going to take a chunk of customers.
L
Levi
@Sakura Cars do not have to be the same to compete for the same target customer. 1 Series is RWD and competes against FWD A Class. But you start sounding like a broken record. Nobody on here disputes the fact that the ES is not the same as the GS or the German rivals you mention, but they nonetheless compete with each other. If the RWD is so important, why did Lexus sell (in Europe) only 12K units in 6 years?


The ES the same size as the A6 in every measure. The new S6 gets only turbo V6.
I have to agree, competition is not defined by the cars specs or drive train but more by the customer base. I am currently in the market and my choices are the 2019 ES F-Sport or the Audi A6. I am sure i'm not alone in this thinking.
S
Levi
@Sakura Cars do not have to be the same to compete for the same target customer. 1 Series is RWD and competes against FWD A Class. But you start sounding like a broken record. Nobody on here disputes the fact that the ES is not the same as the GS or the German rivals you mention, but they nonetheless compete with each other. If the RWD is so important, why did Lexus sell (in Europe) only 12K units in 6 years?

The ES the same size as the A6 in every measure. The new S6 gets only turbo V6.
If I'm a broken record, then everyone else that has been debating with me on this opinion is too. We are all just going back and fourth so how is it that I'm the only broken record? Don't get hostile.

I never said cars has to be in the same segment to target the same customer. Customers have liquidity - they can buy whatever they want. The point was that the Lexus ES doesn't compete against the A6, 5 and E.
Secondly - like I mentioned before. Cars within a segment have to be comparable on multiple departments to be in the same segment together. RWD or FWD alone - doesn't matter - its how the FWD drives or RWD drives. IE: The Civic Type R (FWD) competes with STi and Golf R.
Similarity - the 1 Series RWD (which will be FWD in 2019) competes with the A-Class likely due to its ability that they both share good driving dynamics and other factors. If - the Lexus ES had a longitudinal FWD layout - I would say it definitely competes with the A6, 5, and E. But because it has a transverse FWD layout with MacPherson suspensions that aren't reworked, it'll just never feel like a A6, 5, or E. To add further evidence - the Lexus ES in Europe is only the hybrid model with the CVT. This is not a recipe to dethrone the 5 Series or E-Class in Europe.

Actually - people did. Spwolf believes that the ES competes with the A6, 5 and E. And that's what we were talking about.

To understand why the Lexus GS didn't sell well in Europe, you have to understand the European market. No Japanese brand does well in Europe and this is why no Japanese brand really targets Europe heavily. There is a reason why the new Lexus ES is created for the Chinese market because the USA and Chinese market is the biggest market right now. There is a reason why only 1 version (hybrid) of the Lexus ES is selling in Europe. If Lexus was gunning for the 5 and E they would have probably introduced more ES models to the European market. A Hybrid ES with a CVT isn't going to dethrone the 5 Series or E-Class sales. Toyota knows this - this is why they aren't really pushing it. Toyota likely want the ES in Europe to just fill a GS void temporarily; Toyota released a statement they canceled the GS in Europe due to emissions - not sales. Meaning - the GS can come back to Europe once they figure out a more efficient engine that can sustain with Europe's future emission laws.
The 5 Series and E-Class are on home territory. The 5 Series and E-Class are almost impossible to beat in Europe; just like how Hyundai and KIA are impossible to beat in Korea.
L
Sakura
To understand why the Lexus GS didn't sell well in Europe, you have to understand the European market. No Japanese brand does well in Europe and this is why no Japanese brand really targets Europe heavily.

I am sorry if I came through as hostile, that was not my intention.


That is again a chicken or egg dilema. And yet, Japanese brands do quite well in Europe. It would be more accurate to say Japanese Premium brands do not do well in Europe, Europe has even no Acura. To sell with a markup you need a brand more than a product. I know you mention Audi as Premium, but looking at SUV/CUVs for example, a Q7 is in no quantifiable way better than a Touareg, they are exactly the same, yet it deamed a worse value because of the VW badge. So imagine how hard it is for any foreign brand, including Cadillac or Maserati.

L