Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

Posted by Kevin on June 25th, 2018

Now two weeks after the first reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES hit the Internet, let’s look at some more driving impressions of the new sedan.

Pat Devereux of Top Gear could not have been more effusive in his review of the ES 300h:

This is a moment for you to consider what driving you really do, rather than what you would like to do, but don’t. While [Top Gear] will go to its grave defending your right to having a drift-worthy V8 that consumes tyres and petrol in equal measure, there are some of us who just want or need to get somewhere in the least stressful way possible. Often with luggage and passengers. For those people, cars like the Volvo S90 and now the new Lexus ES are not just a sensible choice, but the correct one.

The Gear Patrol review from Alex Kalogiannis is even-handed and sensible:

The legacy of the ES is secure. Within its element, it’s the best its ever been with contemporary looks and tech conveniences. The F Sport accoutrement only improves things, as long as buyers go in with the right expectations. The ride is smooth, the cabin is a comfortable place to be and it’s easy to see why Lexus loyalists have stuck with it for a few decades. This generation ES is far from a radical upgrade, but as [Chief Engineer] Sakakibara-san states, the pleasure is in the little things it consistently gets right.

Lexus ES Hybrid

Jake Lingeman from Autoweek has posted a very positive review of the ES, but what I wanted to highlight is his take on the Remote Touch controller:

There’s been a lot said about Lexus’ patented mouse pad/slider-joystick infotainment control, and I have a few opinions of my own. The first generation was not good. You had to look at the slider and the screen to find the right time to click. The company added little faux detents, so the cursor would sort of stick on the function you were looking for. It got better. Then it increased the screen size a few years ago to the 12.3 inches and got rid of the joystick/slider for a finger-controlled mouse pad. There was too much ground to cover. Now it’s refined again with separate screen divisions, with little tactile vibrations on the mouse pad where the screens meet so you sort of know where you are.

It wasn’t completely intuitive, but after a day in the car I was…serviceable with it. A week or so and it might be second nature. Whether it should take a week to learn how to use it is another issue. I think that’s an average amount of time; some in the office think that’s too long.

Lexus ES: Sixth Generation
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Comments
L
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
Like every other "amazing" FWD.
L
Sakura
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.


When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
L
Sakura
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.


When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
L
Sakura
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.


When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
L
Sakura
Like Krew said, Power Trunk, Power Shade, and Leather seems to be the biggest difference we know so far. I think we might have to wait for the actual build simulation to figure out what's really missing. I'm expecting quite a bit. The 3G 2014 Lexus IS F-Sport was missing quite a bit of features compared to its non F-Sport counter-part. I'll bet that later into the model years - the Lexus ES F-Sport might offer more luxurious features.


When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
S
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
S
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
S
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
S
Sakura
FWD, RWD and AWD will not be the sole reason a car handles good. A FWD car handle good. A RWD car can handle poorly. However - its how these cars are step up. This is what I was alluding too.

While the 2019 Lexus ES is obviously better - its not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Because you'll obviously feel the draw-backs of the MacPherson suspensions and FWD.
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
S
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
I do not believe dealerships get "demo" cars before official production arrival. The online build simulation will be available before the vehicle hits dealers though.

If you are pre-ordering or ordering a car from the dealer, you'll be given a list of options that you are able to select from. That shouldn't be a problem.

spwolf
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
Hold up. Take a step back - I get it, you like the Lexus ES. But I didn't say Audi and VW can handle better than the Lexus ES. You are putting words in my mouth for this bit.

Also - where did I say the Lexus ES can't handle well? I clearly stated the 2019 Lexus ES handles well and better than the predecessors.
What I said:
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
What I'm trying to say as well is: while the Lexus ES handles better, its still not a good handling FWD car like the Civic Type R. What I said was: The 2019 Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
S
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
I do not believe dealerships get "demo" cars before official production arrival. The online build simulation will be available before the vehicle hits dealers though.

If you are pre-ordering or ordering a car from the dealer, you'll be given a list of options that you are able to select from. That shouldn't be a problem.

spwolf
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
Hold up. Take a step back - I get it, you like the Lexus ES. But I didn't say Audi and VW can handle better than the Lexus ES. You are putting words in my mouth for this bit.

Also - where did I say the Lexus ES can't handle well? I clearly stated the 2019 Lexus ES handles well and better than the predecessors.
What I said:
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
What I'm trying to say as well is: while the Lexus ES handles better, its still not a good handling FWD car like the Civic Type R. What I said was: The 2019 Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
S
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
I do not believe dealerships get "demo" cars before official production arrival. The online build simulation will be available before the vehicle hits dealers though.

If you are pre-ordering or ordering a car from the dealer, you'll be given a list of options that you are able to select from. That shouldn't be a problem.

spwolf
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
Hold up. Take a step back - I get it, you like the Lexus ES. But I didn't say Audi and VW can handle better than the Lexus ES. You are putting words in my mouth for this bit.

Also - where did I say the Lexus ES can't handle well? I clearly stated the 2019 Lexus ES handles well and better than the predecessors.
What I said:
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
What I'm trying to say as well is: while the Lexus ES handles better, its still not a good handling FWD car like the Civic Type R. What I said was: The 2019 Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
S
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
I do not believe dealerships get "demo" cars before official production arrival. The online build simulation will be available before the vehicle hits dealers though.

If you are pre-ordering or ordering a car from the dealer, you'll be given a list of options that you are able to select from. That shouldn't be a problem.

spwolf
So Audi and VW can handle well, but Lexus ES cant handle well... this is basically your argument despite Krew writing review and every other review saying it handles well...

What is competition? Since you are going from Golf to Type R to Audi and MB.

Regular E220d does not handle anything special... A6 FWD also does not handle like Type R either.
Lexus ES can compete well against these cars, and there is simply no argument against that.

Even regular F10 never handled well in non M editions, it was pretty heavy car and by all reviews GS handled better.
Hold up. Take a step back - I get it, you like the Lexus ES. But I didn't say Audi and VW can handle better than the Lexus ES. You are putting words in my mouth for this bit.

Also - where did I say the Lexus ES can't handle well? I clearly stated the 2019 Lexus ES handles well and better than the predecessors.
What I said:
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
What I'm trying to say as well is: while the Lexus ES handles better, its still not a good handling FWD car like the Civic Type R. What I said was: The 2019 Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
L
The Volvo S90/V90 competes against the three German. It has up to more than 400 PS from its transverse 2.0l I4. Audi A4 is probably going FWD next generation. I would not be surprised if too in a generation. With AWD now the standard, bar a for a few enthusiasts, and most flagships going electric, there is little incentive for RWD. Heavy car, no manual, RWD is not worthy.
L
The Volvo S90/V90 competes against the three German. It has up to more than 400 PS from its transverse 2.0l I4. Audi A4 is probably going FWD next generation. I would not be surprised if too in a generation. With AWD now the standard, bar a for a few enthusiasts, and most flagships going electric, there is little incentive for RWD. Heavy car, no manual, RWD is not worthy.
L
The Volvo S90/V90 competes against the three German. It has up to more than 400 PS from its transverse 2.0l I4. Audi A4 is probably going FWD next generation. I would not be surprised if too in a generation. With AWD now the standard, bar a for a few enthusiasts, and most flagships going electric, there is little incentive for RWD. Heavy car, no manual, RWD is not worthy.
L
The Volvo S90/V90 competes against the three German. It has up to more than 400 PS from its transverse 2.0l I4. Audi A4 is probably going FWD next generation. I would not be surprised if too in a generation. With AWD now the standard, bar a for a few enthusiasts, and most flagships going electric, there is little incentive for RWD. Heavy car, no manual, RWD is not worthy.
S
Sakura
Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
No, those arguments do not hold.

1. For car to handle well it does not have to handle as well as Type R. None of the competition handles like Type R. Using some crazy FWD hatch is just an easy way to disqualify ES. Does A6 2.0tdi handle like Type R?
2. I dont care what is on paper, and it is not even on paper since all the mags said that handling is fine. This "paper" is only in your head because of your preconceived opinions of ES.
3. Why would Lexus ES only compete vs Buick and Acura TLX? Those cars do not exist in Europe or China or Japan. All European mags said it competes vs 5/E/A6, and all the reviews are quite favorable with handling being fine, suspension being fine, and interior praised for quality and construction, all vs competition which is A6/5/E.
4. And it is their competition. This is what people will compare it to, even in the US. And of course in the rest of the world, those competition you mention does not exist. When they walk to the Lexus dealership, they will certainly compare it to those cars, no matter where in the world they are.

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

I cant wait for you to try out ES and let us know your opinion. I am sure Krew also had preconceived opinions of what ES is.
S
Sakura
Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
No, those arguments do not hold.

1. For car to handle well it does not have to handle as well as Type R. None of the competition handles like Type R. Using some crazy FWD hatch is just an easy way to disqualify ES. Does A6 2.0tdi handle like Type R?
2. I dont care what is on paper, and it is not even on paper since all the mags said that handling is fine. This "paper" is only in your head because of your preconceived opinions of ES.
3. Why would Lexus ES only compete vs Buick and Acura TLX? Those cars do not exist in Europe or China or Japan. All European mags said it competes vs 5/E/A6, and all the reviews are quite favorable with handling being fine, suspension being fine, and interior praised for quality and construction, all vs competition which is A6/5/E.
4. And it is their competition. This is what people will compare it to, even in the US. And of course in the rest of the world, those competition you mention does not exist. When they walk to the Lexus dealership, they will certainly compare it to those cars, no matter where in the world they are.

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

I cant wait for you to try out ES and let us know your opinion. I am sure Krew also had preconceived opinions of what ES is.
S
Sakura
Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
No, those arguments do not hold.

1. For car to handle well it does not have to handle as well as Type R. None of the competition handles like Type R. Using some crazy FWD hatch is just an easy way to disqualify ES. Does A6 2.0tdi handle like Type R?
2. I dont care what is on paper, and it is not even on paper since all the mags said that handling is fine. This "paper" is only in your head because of your preconceived opinions of ES.
3. Why would Lexus ES only compete vs Buick and Acura TLX? Those cars do not exist in Europe or China or Japan. All European mags said it competes vs 5/E/A6, and all the reviews are quite favorable with handling being fine, suspension being fine, and interior praised for quality and construction, all vs competition which is A6/5/E.
4. And it is their competition. This is what people will compare it to, even in the US. And of course in the rest of the world, those competition you mention does not exist. When they walk to the Lexus dealership, they will certainly compare it to those cars, no matter where in the world they are.

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

I cant wait for you to try out ES and let us know your opinion. I am sure Krew also had preconceived opinions of what ES is.
S
Sakura
Lexus ES definitely handles better than its predecessors but its not a handling-king, such as the Type R. I'm addressing this point because you seem to push the narrative that the Lexus ES handling is extremely well, which is simply not true.
Yes - it handles well and better than before. But no - it doesn't handle like a "sporty" car.

No. There is an argument for this because the Lexus ES doesn't completely compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class. Just because the GS is axed and Toyota put the ES in its place - doesn't mean it competes there.
1) The Audi A6 is a longitudinal FWD car and the 5 Series/E-Class are RWD. On paper - this is already steps ahead in handling compared to the Lexus ES transverse FWD.
2) I would bracket Lexus ES as a car that competes with Buick, Genesis, and the Acura TLX. Its not an A6, 5, or E competitor.
3) It doesn't have to be a A6, 5, or E competitor. Its an amazing car that will sell extremely well where its at. I think people have to understand the Lexus ES is nothing more than a Lexus ES. Its built to be a handsome, luxurious, comfortable, and reliable car.

Lastly - I'm a Toyota shareholder and I like the concept of the Lexus ES, but this doesn't stop me from being bias with my opinions about the vehicle.
No, those arguments do not hold.

1. For car to handle well it does not have to handle as well as Type R. None of the competition handles like Type R. Using some crazy FWD hatch is just an easy way to disqualify ES. Does A6 2.0tdi handle like Type R?
2. I dont care what is on paper, and it is not even on paper since all the mags said that handling is fine. This "paper" is only in your head because of your preconceived opinions of ES.
3. Why would Lexus ES only compete vs Buick and Acura TLX? Those cars do not exist in Europe or China or Japan. All European mags said it competes vs 5/E/A6, and all the reviews are quite favorable with handling being fine, suspension being fine, and interior praised for quality and construction, all vs competition which is A6/5/E.
4. And it is their competition. This is what people will compare it to, even in the US. And of course in the rest of the world, those competition you mention does not exist. When they walk to the Lexus dealership, they will certainly compare it to those cars, no matter where in the world they are.

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

I cant wait for you to try out ES and let us know your opinion. I am sure Krew also had preconceived opinions of what ES is.
krew
Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 300h in Four Exterior Colors

[​IMG]

Matador Red Mica, Moonbeam Beige Metallic, Caviar, and Nightfall Mica.
View the original article post
krew
Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 300h in Four Exterior Colors

[​IMG]

Matador Red Mica, Moonbeam Beige Metallic, Caviar, and Nightfall Mica.
View the original article post
krew
Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 300h in Four Exterior Colors

[​IMG]

Matador Red Mica, Moonbeam Beige Metallic, Caviar, and Nightfall Mica.
View the original article post
krew
Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 300h in Four Exterior Colors

[​IMG]

Matador Red Mica, Moonbeam Beige Metallic, Caviar, and Nightfall Mica.
View the original article post
R
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
Do people pay MSRP when you order a car at Lexus? If so it seems bit crazy to me to pay full price when its not too difficult to get at least 10% off MSRP with a bit of negotiating.
R
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
Do people pay MSRP when you order a car at Lexus? If so it seems bit crazy to me to pay full price when its not too difficult to get at least 10% off MSRP with a bit of negotiating.
R
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
Do people pay MSRP when you order a car at Lexus? If so it seems bit crazy to me to pay full price when its not too difficult to get at least 10% off MSRP with a bit of negotiating.
R
lsu5508
When will be the first time an average Joe can get a good look before ordering? Do dealerships get demo cars prior to official production arrival. No chance i'm pre-ordering blind. Also when do the build options and pricing typically show up on the Lexus website?
Do people pay MSRP when you order a car at Lexus? If so it seems bit crazy to me to pay full price when its not too difficult to get at least 10% off MSRP with a bit of negotiating.
S
spwolf
No, those arguments do not hold.

1. For car to handle well it does not have to handle as well as Type R. None of the competition handles like Type R. Using some crazy FWD hatch is just an easy way to disqualify ES. Does A6 2.0tdi handle like Type R?
2. I dont care what is on paper, and it is not even on paper since all the mags said that handling is fine. This "paper" is only in your head because of your preconceived opinions of ES.
3. Why would Lexus ES only compete vs Buick and Acura TLX? Those cars do not exist in Europe or China or Japan. All European mags said it competes vs 5/E/A6, and all the reviews are quite favorable with handling being fine, suspension being fine, and interior praised for quality and construction, all vs competition which is A6/5/E.
4. And it is their competition. This is what people will compare it to, even in the US. And of course in the rest of the world, those competition you mention does not exist. When they walk to the Lexus dealership, they will certainly compare it to those cars, no matter where in the world they are.

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

I cant wait for you to try out ES and let us know your opinion. I am sure Krew also had preconceived opinions of what ES is.
Actually - they do.

1) I never said a car has to handle like a Civic Type R to be considered handling well. You are putting words in my mouth, again.
I literally said - the Lexus ES handles well - just not as good as the Civic Type R. I never said the Lexus ES has to handle like the Civic Type R to be considered as handling well.

What I said:
The Lexus ES is an amazing luxury car that handles better than its predecessors - it doesn't need to be some handling king. It doesn't need to be powerful either. Its good at being a comfortable-luxurious-reliable car.
Lets refer back - what I also said:
I believe there is nothing wrong with my statement. It obviously better than before but its obviously not better than say a Civic Type R or STi is where I'm getting at. Hence - I said, "handling-king". Obviously the Lexus ES wasn't built for that and there is nothing wrong with that.
As you can see - in the part I just bold and underlined - I stated there is nothing wrong with that. This literally means - the Lexus ES doesn't have to handle like a Civic Type R or STi to be considered good in its own right.
What I'm trying to say here is: the narrative you are pushing make it sounds like you think the Lexus ES is the next coming of the Toyota Supra and it handles like a track car.

No the A6 FWD doesn't handle like the Type R. Its not suppose to. Just like how the Lexus ES isn't suppose to. All I'm saying is - the Lexus ES don't handle like the Type R.

2) The "paper" isn't in my head. The fact is transverse FWD cars don't handle as well as longitudinal placed FWD cars and RWD cars unless the said FWD is set up to, like the Civic Type R. The Lexus ES is not a "sporty" car and its not set up to handle like one.
But that doesn't mean it don't handle well or "fine" as you put it. I fully agree it handles good for what it is. But it doesn't handle like a RWD sporty car and I'm not sure why you think it does.

3) The Buick sells in China. Buick is insanely popular in China. Buick and Audi are two most popular brands in China. Buick does sell in Japan but sales volume are low. Buick and Opel sell together in Europe. The Lexus ES always been compared to the the Buick brand - especially the Buick the LaCrosse. I think the Lexus ES doesn't compete against the A6, 5 Series or E-Class because:
1] Transverse FWD compared to Longitudinal FWD and RWD.
2] Driving dynamics. Sure - it handles better and well for what it is but it won't handle as well as the A6, 5, or E.
3] Not a "sporty" full-size luxury sedan.
4] The Lexus ES price is not even priced near them, which makes the A6, 5 Series and E-Class are a segment higher up.
5] No performance variation; example: ES-F. It'll never have an ES-F either. Toyota will likely not waste money on producing a vehicle the core demographic won't buy.
Finally - for the ES to be competitor to the A6, 5 and E - the ES has to replace the GS. The ES doesn't replace the GS.

What does being a Toyota shareholder have to do with anything? Uhhh... The Lexus ES is made, like many of the other Toyota products, to allow us shareholders to earn money. This is why the Lexus ES is the way it is. Its one of Toyota's cash cow. This is why the Lexus GS got axed and not the ES. The GS is the better car but the ES is the money maker.

How am I bias against the Lexus ES when I also clearly stated the Lexus ES handles well, better than before, its luxurious, comfortable, reliable, and it'll be a great seller. Don't sound like bias against to me...
So you think I'm bias against the Lexus ES because:
I said it doesn't handle like a Civic Type R (when I clearly stated its not suppose) - I was doing a counter-argument against your narrative that its an insanely good handling vehicle.
When I said it doesn't compete with the A6, 5, or E? It clearly doesn't compete with the A6, 5, or E. The Lexus ES is not the same type of vehicle as the A6, 5, or E.
??
^^ These criticism doesn't make me bias. Its legit points. I gave a fair balanced opinion of the Lexus ES. I never say one car is 100% good like you are alluding to. I think you are the one here that is bias. (I know about your Pro-Lexus ES posts on CL too.)

But - I want to say thank you for our conversation together. However - this will be my last reply to you because you came off extremely passive-aggressive towards me for posting a honest fair opinion about the Lexus ES. Its just a car, bro.

S