Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT in Ultrasonic Blue & Ultra White

Sakura

No. You don't pay MSRP. You allowed to talk about the price you would like to pay at before the ordering process. Usually - some dealers would give you even an addition slight discount because you are saving them extra money on insuring the vehicle and keeping it on their lot.

At Lexus dealers - you should get on average of 12%-14% off MSRP with tax regardless if the car is a new release or not. Just don't expect good lease deals when its newly released.

My advice is to wait until the second model year to buy the Lexus ES if you want one. This allows time for the better lease deals to come in and for Toyota to work on the first model year issues. Majority of cars experience issues on their first model year so quite a bit of people tend to hold off on buying first model years.

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Ian Schmidt

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

Like Ian said, Toyota/Lexus tends to have less first year bugs than other car-makers. It doesn't mean they are free from it though.

I wasn't specially talking about issues so big it needs a recall but rather just imperfections that tend to happen on the first year models. Example: The 2014 Lexus IS infotainment system has bugs where it tends to crash and reboot all the time. This was fixed in 2015 (second model year).

While we can't predict what kind of issues the Lexus ES will have, its safe to assume that there might be a few minor things that the 2019 will have to deal with that the 2020 model year won't have to. Its safe to assume this, in my opinion, because majority of the car within the 40-50K price range usually has a few minor flaws. These cars tend to not have so much in depth details applied to it compared to the 100K price tag LS and LC. I mean - you get what you paid for.

I do understand you don't have the luxury to wait. But, my personal advice is, if you are buying and already focused on keeping this Lexus ES for the long-haul. I would recommend either buying the second year model of the ES to avoid any minor issues it might have.
Or lease another vehicle and wait for the refreshed model Lexus ES. I personally recommend refresh models of cars to buy and keep because refresh models allow you to get more features on the car. Since you are keeping it for the long haul, you'll benefit from the features in the longer run.
I'm predicting the refresh Lexus ES F-Sport in the future will have some of the luxury amenities only offered on the Luxury packages previously. This is exactly what happened with the Lexus IS F-Sport. As time went on, they started offering more of the equipment from the luxury pack.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Ian Schmidt

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

Like Ian said, Toyota/Lexus tends to have less first year bugs than other car-makers. It doesn't mean they are free from it though.

I wasn't specially talking about issues so big it needs a recall but rather just imperfections that tend to happen on the first year models. Example: The 2014 Lexus IS infotainment system has bugs where it tends to crash and reboot all the time. This was fixed in 2015 (second model year).

While we can't predict what kind of issues the Lexus ES will have, its safe to assume that there might be a few minor things that the 2019 will have to deal with that the 2020 model year won't have to. Its safe to assume this, in my opinion, because majority of the car within the 40-50K price range usually has a few minor flaws. These cars tend to not have so much in depth details applied to it compared to the 100K price tag LS and LC. I mean - you get what you paid for.

I do understand you don't have the luxury to wait. But, my personal advice is, if you are buying and already focused on keeping this Lexus ES for the long-haul. I would recommend either buying the second year model of the ES to avoid any minor issues it might have.
Or lease another vehicle and wait for the refreshed model Lexus ES. I personally recommend refresh models of cars to buy and keep because refresh models allow you to get more features on the car. Since you are keeping it for the long haul, you'll benefit from the features in the longer run.
I'm predicting the refresh Lexus ES F-Sport in the future will have some of the luxury amenities only offered on the Luxury packages previously. This is exactly what happened with the Lexus IS F-Sport. As time went on, they started offering more of the equipment from the luxury pack.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Ian Schmidt

Toyota/Lexus typically have fewer first year bugs than other makers; I don't think the LC had any recall-type issues at all.

Like Ian said, Toyota/Lexus tends to have less first year bugs than other car-makers. It doesn't mean they are free from it though.

I wasn't specially talking about issues so big it needs a recall but rather just imperfections that tend to happen on the first year models. Example: The 2014 Lexus IS infotainment system has bugs where it tends to crash and reboot all the time. This was fixed in 2015 (second model year).

While we can't predict what kind of issues the Lexus ES will have, its safe to assume that there might be a few minor things that the 2019 will have to deal with that the 2020 model year won't have to. Its safe to assume this, in my opinion, because majority of the car within the 40-50K price range usually has a few minor flaws. These cars tend to not have so much in depth details applied to it compared to the 100K price tag LS and LC. I mean - you get what you paid for.

I do understand you don't have the luxury to wait. But, my personal advice is, if you are buying and already focused on keeping this Lexus ES for the long-haul. I would recommend either buying the second year model of the ES to avoid any minor issues it might have.
Or lease another vehicle and wait for the refreshed model Lexus ES. I personally recommend refresh models of cars to buy and keep because refresh models allow you to get more features on the car. Since you are keeping it for the long haul, you'll benefit from the features in the longer run.
I'm predicting the refresh Lexus ES F-Sport in the future will have some of the luxury amenities only offered on the Luxury packages previously. This is exactly what happened with the Lexus IS F-Sport. As time went on, they started offering more of the equipment from the luxury pack.

spwolf

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

Sakura

^^ These criticism doesn't make me bias. Its legit points. I gave a fair balanced opinion of the Lexus ES. I never say one car is 100% good like you are alluding to. I think you are the one here that is bias. (I know about your Pro-Lexus ES posts on CL too.)

But - I want to say thank you for our conversation together. However - this will be my last reply to you because you came off extremely passive-aggressive towards me for posting a honest fair opinion about the Lexus ES. Its just a car, bro.

Let's slow this down and drop the personal back-and-forth. It's unnecessary.

spwolf

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

Sakura

^^ These criticism doesn't make me bias. Its legit points. I gave a fair balanced opinion of the Lexus ES. I never say one car is 100% good like you are alluding to. I think you are the one here that is bias. (I know about your Pro-Lexus ES posts on CL too.)

But - I want to say thank you for our conversation together. However - this will be my last reply to you because you came off extremely passive-aggressive towards me for posting a honest fair opinion about the Lexus ES. Its just a car, bro.

Let's slow this down and drop the personal back-and-forth. It's unnecessary.

spwolf

Yes, you are biased against Lexus ES, despite all the reviews telling you not to be. I am not sure what does that have to do with being Toyota shareholder, at the time I worked for Toyota, we invested millions into it, and does not make me more qualified than other drivers/buyers of the brand.

Sakura

^^ These criticism doesn't make me bias. Its legit points. I gave a fair balanced opinion of the Lexus ES. I never say one car is 100% good like you are alluding to. I think you are the one here that is bias. (I know about your Pro-Lexus ES posts on CL too.)

But - I want to say thank you for our conversation together. However - this will be my last reply to you because you came off extremely passive-aggressive towards me for posting a honest fair opinion about the Lexus ES. Its just a car, bro.

Let's slow this down and drop the personal back-and-forth. It's unnecessary.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

lsu5508

Just out of curiosity how major are the typical first year bugs? My current lease was up last month so I extended 6 months so i'm not going to have the luxury of waiting an additional year. I will be buying the F-sport most probably depending on options and price so lease deals are not a huge concern to me.

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

Gecko

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

Gecko

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

Gecko

Most of what is coming in the ES has been in the Camry for a year and the Avalon for ~2 months now, so I think the ES should be pretty well sorted out.

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

maiaramdan

That's exactly sir what I have been saying long time ago, honestly the ES not only killing the GS but also the IS, Crown, Avalon and Mark-X

So 1 car will destroy another 6
Why with God sake Toyota not putting the Avalon in the current ES market, I even thought that the Avalon is better all around than the ES and with rumors about killing the IS we start to hear the same about the Mark-X

This is as if they don't want to make cars anymore this is all crazy and I am really mad of the decision regarding sticking with the ES and killing the rest

Very true. The Lexus ES does somewhat harm IS sales as well. The starting price of the Lexus ES is very similar to the Lexus IS. Some consumers might be swayed by the idea of the bigger size of the ES for relatively not that much more.

The problem is: if they cancel both the IS and GS, Lexus is committing brand suicide.
If they cancel the IS, they are canceling the IS, RC (RC is based on IS - IS goes RC goes), and IS-F (no hope of return.)
If they cancel the GS, they are canceling the GS and GS-F.
This means they will leave the 3 Series, 4 Series, C-Class, C-Class Coupe, E-Class, A4, A5, S4, S5, A6, S6, and Q50 3.0T Silver Sport competition. Yup. Brand suicide.

The Lexus ES is an amazing car and its great for what it is. But its no A6, 5, or E competitor. The Lexus ES can barely compete against the 3, C-Class, and A4. Toyota will have to be on some special kind of stupid if they think the Lexus ES will be able to compete against all of those cars with its transverse FWD layout.

Ian Schmidt

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

This is a very good point. I never thought of that before. It actually could make sense because Toyota products tend to get some new gear first before Lexus in some cases.

I also personally think Toyota puts more new stuff in their Toyota products first because that's where the majority of sales come from. Toyota is the cash-cow, Lexus is just there to appeal to a specific market.

Ian Schmidt

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

This is a very good point. I never thought of that before. It actually could make sense because Toyota products tend to get some new gear first before Lexus in some cases.

I also personally think Toyota puts more new stuff in their Toyota products first because that's where the majority of sales come from. Toyota is the cash-cow, Lexus is just there to appeal to a specific market.

Ian Schmidt

Yeah, I think that's actually why Toyota likes to introduce new technology in bottom-tier models first - lets them shake the bugs out in a production environment where expectations are a little lower.

This is a very good point. I never thought of that before. It actually could make sense because Toyota products tend to get some new gear first before Lexus in some cases.

I also personally think Toyota puts more new stuff in their Toyota products first because that's where the majority of sales come from. Toyota is the cash-cow, Lexus is just there to appeal to a specific market.

@Sakura
Thanks a lot, you made me finally feels that I am not alone in the must killing of the ES

regarding the next generation GS, they already have the new crown, they can modified it in and out and have the next generation GS

regarding the next generation IS they can build it with the next generation Mark-X, based on the same length of the current generation Mark-X

So the Crown/Mark-X is the slightly narrow body "Japanese rules" and more soft riding and the GS/IS is the international wide body more athletic riding

regarding the Avalon they can give it the AWD from Highlander or Sienna and they can have even better car than the FWD ES

Sakura

Very true. The Lexus ES does somewhat harm IS sales as well. The starting price of the Lexus ES is very similar to the Lexus IS. Some consumers might be swayed by the idea of the bigger size of the ES for relatively not that much more.

The problem is: if they cancel both the IS and GS, Lexus is committing brand suicide.
If they cancel the IS, they are canceling the IS, RC (RC is based on IS - IS goes RC goes), and IS-F (no hope of return.)
If they cancel the GS, they are canceling the GS and GS-F.
This means they will leave the 3 Series, 4 Series, C-Class, C-Class Coupe, E-Class, A4, A5, S4, S5, A6, S6, and Q50 3.0T Silver Sport competition. Yup. Brand suicide.

The Lexus ES is an amazing car and its great for what it is. But its no A6, 5, or E competitor. The Lexus ES can barely compete against the 3, C-Class, and A4. Toyota will have to be on some special kind of stupid if they think the Lexus ES will be able to compete against all of those cars with its transverse FWD layout.

Do not compare Audi to Mercedes and BMW. Except the R8, all Audis are FWD based. That the engine is north south plays no role. Audi does not have symmetrical AWD as Suabru.


But back to ES being FWD, while you might not like it, neither do I, the thing is people buy it. And while you might like Mercedes and BMW RWD, people buy them because of badge, not because of RWD.

Whether or not you liked the previous X1, it was a true BMW (to the extent of crossovers). So it the current 1 Series. Journalists, quite likely paid by carmakers, have never criticized (when they should have) RWD cars going FWD. Read the new FWD X1 reviews, read the FWD Nissan Pathfinder reviews, FWD nfiniti QX50 reviews, the FWD Suzuki Vitara, the FWD Jeep Compass/Cherokee (successor of the Jeep Liberty), there is simply no end of cars that were RWD and went FWD. Except the few sad car enthusiasts, you and me, and 3 other, no one cares. Sadly, RWD is of the past, there is no return. What will be left are the few flagship models like LS and LC and the Supra kind of cars. I am sure Porsche could get away with a re-engineered A3 Hatch.

maiaramdan

That's exactly sir what I have been saying long time ago, honestly the ES not only killing the GS but also the IS, Crown, Avalon and Mark-X

It'd be one thing if ES was somehow destroying all those cars by subterfuge or some illegal maneuvers by TMC (against themselves?), but the reality is that it's a hell of a car for the price. The fact that no other automaker has any idea how to compete with it either is telling.

krew

Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT in Ultrasonic Blue & Ultra White

Looking good in F SPORT exclusive colors.

View the original article post

krew

Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT in Ultrasonic Blue & Ultra White

Looking good in F SPORT exclusive colors.

View the original article post

krew

Photo Gallery: The 2019 Lexus ES 350 F SPORT in Ultrasonic Blue & Ultra White

Looking good in F SPORT exclusive colors.

View the original article post

Sakura

The Lexus ES is an amazing car and its great for what it is. But its no A6, 5, or E competitor. The Lexus ES can barely compete against the 3, C-Class, and A4.

The ES is not a competitor of A6, 5, E.

It is a competitor of A4, 3, C.

Please a provide YOUR examples of why the ES barely competes in that segment. Quality? Performance? Sales?

Cancelling the IS will indeed be a brand suicide move since it means removing the gateway car. No luxury brand can exist without a gateway product. I doubt it will happen unless we are at the point where sedans account for less than 10% of total car sales.

If the recent boom of the CLA sedan is any indication, Lexus actually needs to bring the CT back and probably a CS as well for the emerging market. It is crucial to have an affordable product that gets new customers into the brand. That's the role IS should be playing, and it couldn't play that role very well because of, well, ES.

The "should they kill the ES" topic is another exhausting discussion that pops up again and again. The answer is a definitive yes, it should have been killed in 1989. But after three decades Lexus is now way past the point of no return, the answer is they can't. The question now is whether TMC could make the best out of this situation.

Ian Schmidt

It'd be one thing if ES was somehow destroying all those cars by subterfuge or some illegal maneuvers by TMC (against themselves?), but the reality is that it's a hell of a car for the price. The fact that no other automaker has any idea how to compete with it either is telling.

Honestly I feel the opposite
If it's a hell of a car why Toyota dump a lot of things inside the Avalon as for example the red leather seats and the big HUD which both can be found in the Rav4 & Camry

I think Toyota putting itself in a suicidal situation and by killing IS & GS they can kill Lexus brand itself because there will be no difference between Lexus and Toyota

zeusus

The ES is not a competitor of A6, 5, E.

It is a competitor of A4, 3, C.

Please a provide YOUR examples of why the ES barely competes in that segment. Quality? Performance? Sales?

I respectfully disagree. The Lexus ES isn't a competitor to the A4, 3, or C.
1) Layout. A4 is longitudinal FWD with AWD offering. 3 and C are both RWD.
2) Driving dynamics/handling. The A4 Quattro, 3, and C all handle better than the Lexus ES and Lexus ES F-Sport.
3) Performance. The A4 Quattro, 3 and C all outperform the Lexus ES.
4) The Lexus ES is too luxurious compared to the A4, 3, and C. The A4, 3, and C seem like a step down in quality and luxury compared to the ES.
5) The Lexus ES has more space and bigger than the A4, 3, and C by a huge amount.

Overall - the Lexus IS350 makes a better competitor to the A4, 3, and C. The sizing, handling, performance, luxurious features, and etc... are more closely related. I believe the Lexus ES hovers in a slot above the IS, A4, 3, and C competition, but below the GS, E, 5, and A6 competition. I don't think the Lexus ES has an actual German competitor is one of the reasons why I allude the Lexus ES to be in competition with the Buick, Acura TLX, and Genesis.