Videos: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES & ES F SPORT

Why is the ES not available with AWD? And why oh why is rear legroom bigger than the LS??? I am shocked!

Why is the ES not available with AWD? And why oh why is rear legroom bigger than the LS??? I am shocked!

@krew Please compare the 2019 ES vs 2018 LS: design, dimensions, tech etc. and highlight the shocking difference:

• ES has Carplay and Alexa. The LS doesn't!
• ES has more legroom!
• ES looks like the LS, at least from the front and side profile...

Many thanks

@krew Please compare the 2019 ES vs 2018 LS: design, dimensions, tech etc. and highlight the shocking difference:

• ES has Carplay and Alexa. The LS doesn't!
• ES has more legroom!
• ES looks like the LS, at least from the front and side profile...

Many thanks

@krew Please compare the 2019 ES vs 2018 LS: design, dimensions, tech etc. and highlight the shocking difference:

• ES has Carplay and Alexa. The LS doesn't!
• ES has more legroom!
• ES looks like the LS, at least from the front and side profile...

Many thanks

spwolf

@krew how was interior quality, how did it feel inside? Compared to ES, IS, GS, NX, etc? Thank you.

To be completely honest, the interiors were black and the cars were revealed outside at night -- getting a good sense of the interior was next to impossible. I did notice some pre-production materials around the steering wheel and on the doors as well.

I really liked the cabin overall -- like most of the new Lexus interiors, everything wraps around the driver and gives a real sense of occasion. The 12.3" screen impressed me, despite already seeing it in the LC & LS.

The one thing that's stuck with me? The ES F SPORT front seats are magnificent. Ample side bolsters, but still like sitting on a cloud. Immediately impressed.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Agreed. Lexus doesn't see the ES as a GS replacement, we don't see the ES as a GS replacement. If this had been communicated up front, we could have avoided all the comparisons and appreciated the new ES for what it is.

The failures of the GS rest with the model itself and what Lexus did/didn't do to support it. Couple that with a US market that no longer interested in cars, and...

F1 Silver Arrows

In short @spwolf, my response is this. It is easy to sell and do well with an inferior car. There will be plenty of success, but they won't have an ounce of credentials. However, if they execute and honestly TRY to develop a car with the aura of specialness (is that even a word?), to work hard and stand behind their core competencies, to be sporty, yet luxurious or vise versa. To try to transcend the medium and conduct something with blood, sweat, tears and NOT through being cheap. To try to actually open their coffers and spill EVERYTHING into a car, like many manufacturers. For god's sakes, they're the most powerful manufacturer in the world. This way, not only will they get sales, not only will everyone be happy, not only will they be successful, they will also have the credentials that they're dying to get from the world and the genuine recognition from other manufacturers. It's honestly as simple as that.

@F1 Silver Arrows, you did a great job with your post -- really managed to capture the dichotomy of the ES/GS argument. The reason I quote this passage specifically is because Lexus did exactly this with the LC. All hope is not lost. :)

spwolf

@krew how was interior quality, how did it feel inside? Compared to ES, IS, GS, NX, etc? Thank you.

To be completely honest, the interiors were black and the cars were revealed outside at night -- getting a good sense of the interior was next to impossible. I did notice some pre-production materials around the steering wheel and on the doors as well.

I really liked the cabin overall -- like most of the new Lexus interiors, everything wraps around the driver and gives a real sense of occasion. The 12.3" screen impressed me, despite already seeing it in the LC & LS.

The one thing that's stuck with me? The ES F SPORT front seats are magnificent. Ample side bolsters, but still like sitting on a cloud. Immediately impressed.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Agreed. Lexus doesn't see the ES as a GS replacement, we don't see the ES as a GS replacement. If this had been communicated up front, we could have avoided all the comparisons and appreciated the new ES for what it is.

The failures of the GS rest with the model itself and what Lexus did/didn't do to support it. Couple that with a US market that no longer interested in cars, and...

F1 Silver Arrows

In short @spwolf, my response is this. It is easy to sell and do well with an inferior car. There will be plenty of success, but they won't have an ounce of credentials. However, if they execute and honestly TRY to develop a car with the aura of specialness (is that even a word?), to work hard and stand behind their core competencies, to be sporty, yet luxurious or vise versa. To try to transcend the medium and conduct something with blood, sweat, tears and NOT through being cheap. To try to actually open their coffers and spill EVERYTHING into a car, like many manufacturers. For god's sakes, they're the most powerful manufacturer in the world. This way, not only will they get sales, not only will everyone be happy, not only will they be successful, they will also have the credentials that they're dying to get from the world and the genuine recognition from other manufacturers. It's honestly as simple as that.

@F1 Silver Arrows, you did a great job with your post -- really managed to capture the dichotomy of the ES/GS argument. The reason I quote this passage specifically is because Lexus did exactly this with the LC. All hope is not lost. :)

spwolf

@krew how was interior quality, how did it feel inside? Compared to ES, IS, GS, NX, etc? Thank you.

To be completely honest, the interiors were black and the cars were revealed outside at night -- getting a good sense of the interior was next to impossible. I did notice some pre-production materials around the steering wheel and on the doors as well.

I really liked the cabin overall -- like most of the new Lexus interiors, everything wraps around the driver and gives a real sense of occasion. The 12.3" screen impressed me, despite already seeing it in the LC & LS.

The one thing that's stuck with me? The ES F SPORT front seats are magnificent. Ample side bolsters, but still like sitting on a cloud. Immediately impressed.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Agreed. Lexus doesn't see the ES as a GS replacement, we don't see the ES as a GS replacement. If this had been communicated up front, we could have avoided all the comparisons and appreciated the new ES for what it is.

The failures of the GS rest with the model itself and what Lexus did/didn't do to support it. Couple that with a US market that no longer interested in cars, and...

F1 Silver Arrows

In short @spwolf, my response is this. It is easy to sell and do well with an inferior car. There will be plenty of success, but they won't have an ounce of credentials. However, if they execute and honestly TRY to develop a car with the aura of specialness (is that even a word?), to work hard and stand behind their core competencies, to be sporty, yet luxurious or vise versa. To try to transcend the medium and conduct something with blood, sweat, tears and NOT through being cheap. To try to actually open their coffers and spill EVERYTHING into a car, like many manufacturers. For god's sakes, they're the most powerful manufacturer in the world. This way, not only will they get sales, not only will everyone be happy, not only will they be successful, they will also have the credentials that they're dying to get from the world and the genuine recognition from other manufacturers. It's honestly as simple as that.

@F1 Silver Arrows, you did a great job with your post -- really managed to capture the dichotomy of the ES/GS argument. The reason I quote this passage specifically is because Lexus did exactly this with the LC. All hope is not lost. :)

Thanks for all of your kind responses everyone! I value the amount of respect we have between each other and in this forum. Obviously, my slight "tirade" toward Lexus was through the culmination of feelings that we've been experiencing. I simply decided to take some time to really break down this issue. I thought it would give everyone great insight! Thanks for the love! :)

Yeah, in response to @Carmaker1, this is not something that we should ultimately give a slap on the wrist, they need to be exposed to the predicament that they've caused and not be self-absorbed into everything. I can feel for these people, because it is hard to come back out of such an issue.

To @krew, that's exactly what I want from Lexus. If they put the same effort they've did in the LC, and also LS (LS may have a few issues including the absence of the V8, but is still a great product), they would knock everything out of the park. They can afford to conduct such high levels of research and development. Even Mazda (ironically has some help from Toyota) is doing groundbreaking development in regards to their future cars. If Mazda can really push the envelope with what they can afford, Toyota can do that ten-fold (and that's probably an understatement there). I do understand the role of the accountants or I like to colloquially say "bean counters", but they need to mostly back off when it comes to these cars.

ssun30

Yes it would. Actually a turbo hybrid is the perfect combo since it hides turbo lag and improves drivability significantly.

The only downside is that a turbo ICE has lower peak thermal efficiency than a naturally aspirated one. Therefore such a hybrid system may not be optimal for fuel efficiency, but it's a HUGE step over a gas engine nonetheless.



True, that's enough ES vs GS debate for now. We have been doing this since like two years ago and repeated the same thing again and again.

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

Thanks for all of your kind responses everyone! I value the amount of respect we have between each other and in this forum. Obviously, my slight "tirade" toward Lexus was through the culmination of feelings that we've been experiencing. I simply decided to take some time to really break down this issue. I thought it would give everyone great insight! Thanks for the love! :)

Yeah, in response to @Carmaker1, this is not something that we should ultimately give a slap on the wrist, they need to be exposed to the predicament that they've caused and not be self-absorbed into everything. I can feel for these people, because it is hard to come back out of such an issue.

To @krew, that's exactly what I want from Lexus. If they put the same effort they've did in the LC, and also LS (LS may have a few issues including the absence of the V8, but is still a great product), they would knock everything out of the park. They can afford to conduct such high levels of research and development. Even Mazda (ironically has some help from Toyota) is doing groundbreaking development in regards to their future cars. If Mazda can really push the envelope with what they can afford, Toyota can do that ten-fold (and that's probably an understatement there). I do understand the role of the accountants or I like to colloquially say "bean counters", but they need to mostly back off when it comes to these cars.

ssun30

Yes it would. Actually a turbo hybrid is the perfect combo since it hides turbo lag and improves drivability significantly.

The only downside is that a turbo ICE has lower peak thermal efficiency than a naturally aspirated one. Therefore such a hybrid system may not be optimal for fuel efficiency, but it's a HUGE step over a gas engine nonetheless.



True, that's enough ES vs GS debate for now. We have been doing this since like two years ago and repeated the same thing again and again.

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

Thanks for all of your kind responses everyone! I value the amount of respect we have between each other and in this forum. Obviously, my slight "tirade" toward Lexus was through the culmination of feelings that we've been experiencing. I simply decided to take some time to really break down this issue. I thought it would give everyone great insight! Thanks for the love! :)

Yeah, in response to @Carmaker1, this is not something that we should ultimately give a slap on the wrist, they need to be exposed to the predicament that they've caused and not be self-absorbed into everything. I can feel for these people, because it is hard to come back out of such an issue.

To @krew, that's exactly what I want from Lexus. If they put the same effort they've did in the LC, and also LS (LS may have a few issues including the absence of the V8, but is still a great product), they would knock everything out of the park. They can afford to conduct such high levels of research and development. Even Mazda (ironically has some help from Toyota) is doing groundbreaking development in regards to their future cars. If Mazda can really push the envelope with what they can afford, Toyota can do that ten-fold (and that's probably an understatement there). I do understand the role of the accountants or I like to colloquially say "bean counters", but they need to mostly back off when it comes to these cars.

ssun30

Yes it would. Actually a turbo hybrid is the perfect combo since it hides turbo lag and improves drivability significantly.

The only downside is that a turbo ICE has lower peak thermal efficiency than a naturally aspirated one. Therefore such a hybrid system may not be optimal for fuel efficiency, but it's a HUGE step over a gas engine nonetheless.



True, that's enough ES vs GS debate for now. We have been doing this since like two years ago and repeated the same thing again and again.

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

@krew Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

F1 Silver Arrows

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

Oops, messed up the BB code. Fixed.

@krew Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

F1 Silver Arrows

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

Oops, messed up the BB code. Fixed.

@krew Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

F1 Silver Arrows

Err...... why is my name highlighted?

Oops, messed up the BB code. Fixed.

I have already said Wow I think looks very good, one question why is the engine bay so exposed? A lots of wiring and pump wires etc all visible surely there will be a cover over this in the production vehicles?

I have already said Wow I think looks very good, one question why is the engine bay so exposed? A lots of wiring and pump wires etc all visible surely there will be a cover over this in the production vehicles?

I have already said Wow I think looks very good, one question why is the engine bay so exposed? A lots of wiring and pump wires etc all visible surely there will be a cover over this in the production vehicles?

ssun30

Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

LS is about 10 inch longer overall and in wheels base. Knowing the LS has its overhangs almost as long as the ES, yet having some distance between the front wheel and the front door, it loses the 10 inch length advantage, if not more, in terms of cabin length.

ssun30

Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

LS is about 10 inch longer overall and in wheels base. Knowing the LS has its overhangs almost as long as the ES, yet having some distance between the front wheel and the front door, it loses the 10 inch length advantage, if not more, in terms of cabin length.

ssun30

Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.

LS is about 10 inch longer overall and in wheels base. Knowing the LS has its overhangs almost as long as the ES, yet having some distance between the front wheel and the front door, it loses the 10 inch length advantage, if not more, in terms of cabin length.

Carmaker1

I am thinking like what @Gecko had said to me, certain decision making was made so belatedly, that the ES wasn't able to be developed to replace GS with AWD and stay on time.

That sounds very likely, but I'm optimistically clinging to hope that, somehow, 7ES eventually gets a well-engineered AWD option during a future model year, perhaps in conjunction with either an "ES 450h" performance hybrid or even (gasp!) an ES-F. I do note, however, ssun30's observations atop page 4 of this thread that E-Four is not a good AWD system for performance applications.

Only then will ES be a truly worthy GS replacement.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Point taken, but I do feel that I need to post some numbers which clearly show why Lexus decided to kill GS in favor of ES. A text conversation with krew last night led me to Google "2017 global Lexus sales by model", with the first result being a page on focus2move.com.

ES was, worldwide, the 3rd best-selling Lexus vehicle in 2017. Its 133,340 units sold were only exceeded by NX (148,377) and RX (163, 646). Most notably, ES was one of only 2 Lexus lines to show increased sales globally versus 2016. (ES +8% and NX +1.4%). And GS? It was #8 out of 10 Lexus lines tallied by focus2move, trailed only by RC and LS (the latter transitioning from 4th to 5th generation during 2017). Most notably, GS reported the steepest percentage drop (a 41.3% drop from 27,770 units sold globally in 2016 to 16,304 units in 2017).

With numbers like those, it's no wonder that Lexus bean counters pulled the plug on GS.

Carmaker1

I am thinking like what @Gecko had said to me, certain decision making was made so belatedly, that the ES wasn't able to be developed to replace GS with AWD and stay on time.

That sounds very likely, but I'm optimistically clinging to hope that, somehow, 7ES eventually gets a well-engineered AWD option during a future model year, perhaps in conjunction with either an "ES 450h" performance hybrid or even (gasp!) an ES-F. I do note, however, ssun30's observations atop page 4 of this thread that E-Four is not a good AWD system for performance applications.

Only then will ES be a truly worthy GS replacement.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Point taken, but I do feel that I need to post some numbers which clearly show why Lexus decided to kill GS in favor of ES. A text conversation with krew last night led me to Google "2017 global Lexus sales by model", with the first result being a page on focus2move.com.

ES was, worldwide, the 3rd best-selling Lexus vehicle in 2017. Its 133,340 units sold were only exceeded by NX (148,377) and RX (163, 646). Most notably, ES was one of only 2 Lexus lines to show increased sales globally versus 2016. (ES +8% and NX +1.4%). And GS? It was #8 out of 10 Lexus lines tallied by focus2move, trailed only by RC and LS (the latter transitioning from 4th to 5th generation during 2017). Most notably, GS reported the steepest percentage drop (a 41.3% drop from 27,770 units sold globally in 2016 to 16,304 units in 2017).

With numbers like those, it's no wonder that Lexus bean counters pulled the plug on GS.

Carmaker1

I am thinking like what @Gecko had said to me, certain decision making was made so belatedly, that the ES wasn't able to be developed to replace GS with AWD and stay on time.

That sounds very likely, but I'm optimistically clinging to hope that, somehow, 7ES eventually gets a well-engineered AWD option during a future model year, perhaps in conjunction with either an "ES 450h" performance hybrid or even (gasp!) an ES-F. I do note, however, ssun30's observations atop page 4 of this thread that E-Four is not a good AWD system for performance applications.

Only then will ES be a truly worthy GS replacement.

Carmaker1

With that being said, I think we should try and dissolve any non-ES discussion in this thread, in order to avoid going off topic too long.

Point taken, but I do feel that I need to post some numbers which clearly show why Lexus decided to kill GS in favor of ES. A text conversation with krew last night led me to Google "2017 global Lexus sales by model", with the first result being a page on focus2move.com.

ES was, worldwide, the 3rd best-selling Lexus vehicle in 2017. Its 133,340 units sold were only exceeded by NX (148,377) and RX (163, 646). Most notably, ES was one of only 2 Lexus lines to show increased sales globally versus 2016. (ES +8% and NX +1.4%). And GS? It was #8 out of 10 Lexus lines tallied by focus2move, trailed only by RC and LS (the latter transitioning from 4th to 5th generation during 2017). Most notably, GS reported the steepest percentage drop (a 41.3% drop from 27,770 units sold globally in 2016 to 16,304 units in 2017).

With numbers like those, it's no wonder that Lexus bean counters pulled the plug on GS.

Quick little look at the ES reveal at the Beijing Motor Show

Quick little look at the ES reveal at the Beijing Motor Show

Quick little look at the ES reveal at the Beijing Motor Show

Regarding the ES and Lexus overall, I know it may not play a huge role for most, but there are some things I do not like lately. I do not exactly know how to call these details, it is not design, because it is not really style, but still something visual and technical.

1. I have already mentioned the sloppy rear window, I prefer more upright with the flatter trunk. I know aerodynamics, but on a three-box-car, it does not look good to me.

2. I usually do not like when sedans have a small glass window behind the rear door (like Audi). I prefer the way BMW, Mercedes and Lexus do it. But in this case, unlike the yet current/soon previous ES, I do not like how the trim extends behind the door, for no reason. The new LS has a windows behind, the concept was better without.


3. I prefer when the rear door line is straight rather than curved around the wheel (like BMW for example), or cuts straight through the fender ( like Lexus GX). I can accept curved around the fender like most Lexus. On the XV60 the fender line is the same one as the door shutline. If there is some distance between the fender line and the door shutline, that is fine too, maybe even better. But here it is the worst possible execution: the door line cuts through the fender line, but instead of going through the fender arc surface till the fender edge, it stops in the middle and follows the fender arc from the wrong side. This drives me mad, same thing on the new LS.

Regarding the ES and Lexus overall, I know it may not play a huge role for most, but there are some things I do not like lately. I do not exactly know how to call these details, it is not design, because it is not really style, but still something visual and technical.

1. I have already mentioned the sloppy rear window, I prefer more upright with the flatter trunk. I know aerodynamics, but on a three-box-car, it does not look good to me.

2. I usually do not like when sedans have a small glass window behind the rear door (like Audi). I prefer the way BMW, Mercedes and Lexus do it. But in this case, unlike the yet current/soon previous ES, I do not like how the trim extends behind the door, for no reason. The new LS has a windows behind, the concept was better without.


3. I prefer when the rear door line is straight rather than curved around the wheel (like BMW for example), or cuts straight through the fender ( like Lexus GX). I can accept curved around the fender like most Lexus. On the XV60 the fender line is the same one as the door shutline. If there is some distance between the fender line and the door shutline, that is fine too, maybe even better. But here it is the worst possible execution: the door line cuts through the fender line, but instead of going through the fender arc surface till the fender edge, it stops in the middle and follows the fender arc from the wrong side. This drives me mad, same thing on the new LS.

Regarding the ES and Lexus overall, I know it may not play a huge role for most, but there are some things I do not like lately. I do not exactly know how to call these details, it is not design, because it is not really style, but still something visual and technical.

1. I have already mentioned the sloppy rear window, I prefer more upright with the flatter trunk. I know aerodynamics, but on a three-box-car, it does not look good to me.

2. I usually do not like when sedans have a small glass window behind the rear door (like Audi). I prefer the way BMW, Mercedes and Lexus do it. But in this case, unlike the yet current/soon previous ES, I do not like how the trim extends behind the door, for no reason. The new LS has a windows behind, the concept was better without.


3. I prefer when the rear door line is straight rather than curved around the wheel (like BMW for example), or cuts straight through the fender ( like Lexus GX). I can accept curved around the fender like most Lexus. On the XV60 the fender line is the same one as the door shutline. If there is some distance between the fender line and the door shutline, that is fine too, maybe even better. But here it is the worst possible execution: the door line cuts through the fender line, but instead of going through the fender arc surface till the fender edge, it stops in the middle and follows the fender arc from the wrong side. This drives me mad, same thing on the new LS.

ssun30

@krew Care to explain why the ES has a longer passenger cabin than the LS? How does it have a longer legroom when the LS is 8 inches longer? I know transverse FWD platform has inherent advantage in interior space, but Lexus did waste a lot of length on that front overhang you know.


Oops, messed up the BB code. Fixed.

LS has engine behind the axle, ES has in front, this frees up wheelbase for cabin.

But also do not just read the specs... for instance I bet LS has much more relaxed seating at the back, and much nicer angle. I am 6.1" 250lbs and I have maximum comfort in front and back of LS. There is simply no way that back seat of ES is as comfortable as in LS, the angle of seat back and bottom cushion is going to be very different. Also I bet front seats of LS take up much more space.