Videos: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES & ES F SPORT

Video: Up Close with the New 2019 Lexus ES

Ultra White & Nobel Brown.

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Video: Up Close with the New 2019 Lexus ES

Ultra White & Nobel Brown.

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Joaquin Ruhi

My point? If, indeed, ES winds up replacing the full GS line, we may well see an ES 450h with a naturally-aspirated V6 hybrid powertrain (be it the current 2GR-FXS from the RX 450h or a new variant of the V35A V6 engine family), with enthusiast-friendly tricks such as E-Four AWD and Direct Shift CVT.

One problem with E-Four on their current hybrid vehicles is that it's always part-time AWD. With so little energy storage in the HV battery the ICE has to work hard to keep the rear motor powered. So most of the time the 450h will drive exactly like a FWD vehicle, with the controlling unit only turning on E-Four operation when slip is detected. It's sufficient for driving in low grip conditions, but not a good fit for performance applications.

Part of the reason why I hate E-Four is how much weight and complexity it adds to solve a very simple problem. I never understand why they did not put a conventional transaxle after the output shaft of the hybrid system to get AWD. They said it eliminates the mechanical link between the axles and reduces weight, except it doesn't. They still need an electrical link and an extra set of power control electronics, as well as a very oversized rear motor that is dead weight most of the time.

Joaquin Ruhi

My point? If, indeed, ES winds up replacing the full GS line, we may well see an ES 450h with a naturally-aspirated V6 hybrid powertrain (be it the current 2GR-FXS from the RX 450h or a new variant of the V35A V6 engine family), with enthusiast-friendly tricks such as E-Four AWD and Direct Shift CVT.

One problem with E-Four on their current hybrid vehicles is that it's always part-time AWD. With so little energy storage in the HV battery the ICE has to work hard to keep the rear motor powered. So most of the time the 450h will drive exactly like a FWD vehicle, with the controlling unit only turning on E-Four operation when slip is detected. It's sufficient for driving in low grip conditions, but not a good fit for performance applications.

Part of the reason why I hate E-Four is how much weight and complexity it adds to solve a very simple problem. I never understand why they did not put a conventional transaxle after the output shaft of the hybrid system to get AWD. They said it eliminates the mechanical link between the axles and reduces weight, except it doesn't. They still need an electrical link and an extra set of power control electronics, as well as a very oversized rear motor that is dead weight most of the time.

Joaquin Ruhi

My point? If, indeed, ES winds up replacing the full GS line, we may well see an ES 450h with a naturally-aspirated V6 hybrid powertrain (be it the current 2GR-FXS from the RX 450h or a new variant of the V35A V6 engine family), with enthusiast-friendly tricks such as E-Four AWD and Direct Shift CVT.

One problem with E-Four on their current hybrid vehicles is that it's always part-time AWD. With so little energy storage in the HV battery the ICE has to work hard to keep the rear motor powered. So most of the time the 450h will drive exactly like a FWD vehicle, with the controlling unit only turning on E-Four operation when slip is detected. It's sufficient for driving in low grip conditions, but not a good fit for performance applications.

Part of the reason why I hate E-Four is how much weight and complexity it adds to solve a very simple problem. I never understand why they did not put a conventional transaxle after the output shaft of the hybrid system to get AWD. They said it eliminates the mechanical link between the axles and reduces weight, except it doesn't. They still need an electrical link and an extra set of power control electronics, as well as a very oversized rear motor that is dead weight most of the time.

Gecko

This is not true at all in N.A. Buyers come into a dealership wanting GS and are sold into an ES for the reasons @ssun30 mentions. Dealers don't stock many GSs, keep plenty of ESs in popular color combinations and then highlight how ES is "basically the same car for $10k less." Buyer feels like they are getting a value and leave with an ES. I can only speak for N.A. market, but this is exactly how it happens/happened 85% of the time - I have worked in dealers and at the OEM level for Lexus so I have seen this with my own two eyes.

It is the ES that killed the GS, plain and simple. No questions asked.

Ergh, again, we have never had ES in Japan and in whole of EU, and GS sales are not any better.

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

Last year there were 3 months of GS in stock in your average Lexus dealer, so I am not sure how many do you think they should stock?

Gecko

This is not true at all in N.A. Buyers come into a dealership wanting GS and are sold into an ES for the reasons @ssun30 mentions. Dealers don't stock many GSs, keep plenty of ESs in popular color combinations and then highlight how ES is "basically the same car for $10k less." Buyer feels like they are getting a value and leave with an ES. I can only speak for N.A. market, but this is exactly how it happens/happened 85% of the time - I have worked in dealers and at the OEM level for Lexus so I have seen this with my own two eyes.

It is the ES that killed the GS, plain and simple. No questions asked.

Ergh, again, we have never had ES in Japan and in whole of EU, and GS sales are not any better.

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

Last year there were 3 months of GS in stock in your average Lexus dealer, so I am not sure how many do you think they should stock?

Gecko

This is not true at all in N.A. Buyers come into a dealership wanting GS and are sold into an ES for the reasons @ssun30 mentions. Dealers don't stock many GSs, keep plenty of ESs in popular color combinations and then highlight how ES is "basically the same car for $10k less." Buyer feels like they are getting a value and leave with an ES. I can only speak for N.A. market, but this is exactly how it happens/happened 85% of the time - I have worked in dealers and at the OEM level for Lexus so I have seen this with my own two eyes.

It is the ES that killed the GS, plain and simple. No questions asked.

Ergh, again, we have never had ES in Japan and in whole of EU, and GS sales are not any better.

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

Last year there were 3 months of GS in stock in your average Lexus dealer, so I am not sure how many do you think they should stock?

spwolf

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

I cannot speak to pricing and packaging in other parts of the world, but I know that for a long time, Lexus has sent larger than necessary, and thus expensive, engine options to global markets where E-Class, 5er and A6 offer 2.0L diesels and are cheaper. In addition, Lexus 2.0T has never been seen as cutting edge or very efficient in markets where it does exist. IMO, Lexus has just never been able to figure out how to correctly package or position GS in relation to ES, or globally, E, 5 and A6. At the same time, Lexus has made the conscious decision to grow the ES from being a small entry level car to now being larger than the LS... most directly impacting GS from a price and size perspective.

Perhaps this new ES will give them the scale and packaging options to make it a more appealing global product - something GS always struggled with.

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

spwolf

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

I cannot speak to pricing and packaging in other parts of the world, but I know that for a long time, Lexus has sent larger than necessary, and thus expensive, engine options to global markets where E-Class, 5er and A6 offer 2.0L diesels and are cheaper. In addition, Lexus 2.0T has never been seen as cutting edge or very efficient in markets where it does exist. IMO, Lexus has just never been able to figure out how to correctly package or position GS in relation to ES, or globally, E, 5 and A6. At the same time, Lexus has made the conscious decision to grow the ES from being a small entry level car to now being larger than the LS... most directly impacting GS from a price and size perspective.

Perhaps this new ES will give them the scale and packaging options to make it a more appealing global product - something GS always struggled with.

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

spwolf

Sure, customers see both cars and see no reason to pay extra $10k for GS? Would they buy GS if ES didnt exist? They mostly would not... just like EU and Japan customers are simply not buying GS, despite lack of ES.

I cannot speak to pricing and packaging in other parts of the world, but I know that for a long time, Lexus has sent larger than necessary, and thus expensive, engine options to global markets where E-Class, 5er and A6 offer 2.0L diesels and are cheaper. In addition, Lexus 2.0T has never been seen as cutting edge or very efficient in markets where it does exist. IMO, Lexus has just never been able to figure out how to correctly package or position GS in relation to ES, or globally, E, 5 and A6. At the same time, Lexus has made the conscious decision to grow the ES from being a small entry level car to now being larger than the LS... most directly impacting GS from a price and size perspective.

Perhaps this new ES will give them the scale and packaging options to make it a more appealing global product - something GS always struggled with.

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I don't know if it is just me but every time I see the rear of the 2019 Lexus ES it reminds me of mix of 2011 to 2014 Hyundai Sonata and of the 2013 Lexus GS rear.

I don't know if it is just me but every time I see the rear of the 2019 Lexus ES it reminds me of mix of 2011 to 2014 Hyundai Sonata and of the 2013 Lexus GS rear.

I don't know if it is just me but every time I see the rear of the 2019 Lexus ES it reminds me of mix of 2011 to 2014 Hyundai Sonata and of the 2013 Lexus GS rear.

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.