Videos: Inside the 2019 Lexus ES & ES F SPORT

I didn't expect this but the ES will debut in the UK with 4 engines:

The range will include the ES 300h, on sale from December 2018, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system, together with the ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models that will go on sale from September 2018.

I didn't expect this but the ES will debut in the UK with 4 engines:

The range will include the ES 300h, on sale from December 2018, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system, together with the ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models that will go on sale from September 2018.

Do you think the new ES is built with BEV variant in mind? It looks like Toyota's new platform is as modular as BMW's, if not more. The LS has been shown, as concept car both as HFCEV and BEV. Toyota will reveal the CH-R BEV version. I think at this point it is a given the UX will have a BEV variant. The ES could too then. It would even make alot of sense for China, where they like sedans, and Germans make LWB version of their sedans for the Chinese market. This is a huge opportunity for Lexus to gain some market share in China.

Do you think the new ES is built with BEV variant in mind? It looks like Toyota's new platform is as modular as BMW's, if not more. The LS has been shown, as concept car both as HFCEV and BEV. Toyota will reveal the CH-R BEV version. I think at this point it is a given the UX will have a BEV variant. The ES could too then. It would even make alot of sense for China, where they like sedans, and Germans make LWB version of their sedans for the Chinese market. This is a huge opportunity for Lexus to gain some market share in China.

Do you think the new ES is built with BEV variant in mind? It looks like Toyota's new platform is as modular as BMW's, if not more. The LS has been shown, as concept car both as HFCEV and BEV. Toyota will reveal the CH-R BEV version. I think at this point it is a given the UX will have a BEV variant. The ES could too then. It would even make alot of sense for China, where they like sedans, and Germans make LWB version of their sedans for the Chinese market. This is a huge opportunity for Lexus to gain some market share in China.

asoksevil

I didn't expect this but the ES will debut in the UK with 4 engines:

The range will include the ES 300h, on sale from December 2018, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system, together with the ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models that will go on sale from September 2018.

350 in UK? ... I find that hard to believe unless engine inside is not 3.5 V6. Western Europe never got the 3.5 V6 in any of the models, even 3GS have remained GS300 over there during it's lifetime. Why now? It made sense ten years ago in IS and GS to rival German NA and first gen turbo engines.

Most likely it's just a general PR suited for the whole European market which counts in UA and RU as their integral parts. In both of those places 3.5 V6 is available.

asoksevil

I didn't expect this but the ES will debut in the UK with 4 engines:

The range will include the ES 300h, on sale from December 2018, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system, together with the ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models that will go on sale from September 2018.

350 in UK? ... I find that hard to believe unless engine inside is not 3.5 V6. Western Europe never got the 3.5 V6 in any of the models, even 3GS have remained GS300 over there during it's lifetime. Why now? It made sense ten years ago in IS and GS to rival German NA and first gen turbo engines.

Most likely it's just a general PR suited for the whole European market which counts in UA and RU as their integral parts. In both of those places 3.5 V6 is available.

asoksevil

I didn't expect this but the ES will debut in the UK with 4 engines:

The range will include the ES 300h, on sale from December 2018, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system, together with the ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models that will go on sale from September 2018.

350 in UK? ... I find that hard to believe unless engine inside is not 3.5 V6. Western Europe never got the 3.5 V6 in any of the models, even 3GS have remained GS300 over there during it's lifetime. Why now? It made sense ten years ago in IS and GS to rival German NA and first gen turbo engines.

Most likely it's just a general PR suited for the whole European market which counts in UA and RU as their integral parts. In both of those places 3.5 V6 is available.

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

Available from January 2019, the UK range will feature the ES 300h, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system. ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models will be available in certain other European markets from September 2018.

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

Available from January 2019, the UK range will feature the ES 300h, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system. ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models will be available in certain other European markets from September 2018.

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

Available from January 2019, the UK range will feature the ES 300h, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system. ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models will be available in certain other European markets from September 2018.

Joaquin Ruhi

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

I got that PR info from Lexus UK ES website but then I went to Lexus EU website and it was the exact same info so they just probably didn't update it for the U.K. The ES300h seems to be the only option.

Joaquin Ruhi

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

I got that PR info from Lexus UK ES website but then I went to Lexus EU website and it was the exact same info so they just probably didn't update it for the U.K. The ES300h seems to be the only option.

Joaquin Ruhi

The way I understand it, the UK is only getting the ES 300h. From the Lexus UK Media Site's 7ES news release:

I got that PR info from Lexus UK ES website but then I went to Lexus EU website and it was the exact same info so they just probably didn't update it for the U.K. The ES300h seems to be the only option.

I just came back from the Beijing Motor Show to share something about the new ES.

Well, there really is not a lot to say, but a lot to rant. I didn't even take any pictures of it, we saw all of them online. They only show the exterior and don't allow interior visits, so it's really hard to add any details.

Overall I am deeply disappointed with the ES launch and their overall marketing effort. To begin with, their booth is very, very small. It's not even half the size of Infiniti and Acura's, so there's no point even comparing it to BBA. As a result, they are not even displaying all their models, no GS or GX is predictable since they are on their way out. There is no RC; there is a white LC which certainly isn't the best color to show in a heavily lit hall, and the LC is at a corner that people easily miss. It seems they didn't understand that sports cars are what attract people to visit them in the first place. By comparison, Mercedes has their 4-time F1 champion car right at the entrance; Alfa Romeo has the perennial last-row finisher Sauber F1 car (which the general public don't know, they only know they do F1); Audi has the carbon fibre grey R8 V10 Plus and an absolutely gorgeous lemon green RS4 Avant (they even sell it here!), not to mention a full row of M cars, starting from 1 all the way up to 6, in sedan and crossover flavors, plus a M760 V12, at the front row of the BMW booth. Their booth is bland and barren. They didn't show a structural blue LC or their perhaps only interesting sedan, the GS-F. It makes every Lexus owner embarrassed.

Also, no UX? Did they forget that crossovers are money printers? Speaking of money printers, they even passed on the RX-L. Apparently they think it's okay to to let Acura pick up all that free money.

And our hero ES, an ES260 F-Sport and an ES300h, are tucked in a corner no one can see, with no effort showing what's new and what's cool about them. Their staff don't even know the fuel economy and total system horsepower of the hybrid, because Lexus didn't give them any technical details. We know more by reading online. Yes, they took loads of pre-orders because to be honest, people who bothered visiting their booth are there to pre-order an ES. Their goal is very clear here: to sell the ES.

And of course they show the LS350 Executive Edition so they can perhaps milk more money by convincing some ES buyers to upgrade. It's an embarrassing product, while BBA are showing their best: the Maybach, the M760 V12, the plug-in A8. They don't show the 500h because apparently they are afraid its price tag will scare away ES buyers. Let me say this again: they don't show their flagship because they are afraid luxury car buyers can't afford it.

Now onto the positives:
>>They are taking loads of pre-orders. This thing will sell in record numbers. Lexus buyers are so confident in the brand that they buy them without even touching the interior.
>>Chinese buyers are almost 100% positive with the spindle grille. Nobody at the booth said "OMG it looks like the Predator I'm so scared!". They buy Lexus for the looks.
>>Their buyer demographic is very young. The IS has a lot of potential if the next generation is executed successfully. They need a cheaper variant against the likes of C200 and 320i, a hybrid to take advantage of their highly successful marketing campaign, as well as an IS-F to attract people to buy F-sport add-ons (that's how AMG/RS/M works). The looks department of current-gen is absolutely bang on; young people really want one, but the lack of a more accessible 200 or 260 variant stops them from buying it. Make it a look like a baby LC sedan with a better pricing structure and they have a 3 series killer.
>>The F-Sport has a lot of potential as well, again Lexus has the sportiest looks period, and F-Sport adds even more "WOW I want that" factor. Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels! It is the No.1 reason people don't buy the upgrade. People want a good looking car without having to be surrounded by flimsy plastic (the interior quality of the IS F-Sport is abysmal).

P.S. Pre-order starts now and delivery will begin in August.
P.P.S. It's funny how almost every visitor mentioned "260" is a better name than "250" (a pejorative word meaning "dumb").

I just came back from the Beijing Motor Show to share something about the new ES.

Well, there really is not a lot to say, but a lot to rant. I didn't even take any pictures of it, we saw all of them online. They only show the exterior and don't allow interior visits, so it's really hard to add any details.

Overall I am deeply disappointed with the ES launch and their overall marketing effort. To begin with, their booth is very, very small. It's not even half the size of Infiniti and Acura's, so there's no point even comparing it to BBA. As a result, they are not even displaying all their models, no GS or GX is predictable since they are on their way out. There is no RC; there is a white LC which certainly isn't the best color to show in a heavily lit hall, and the LC is at a corner that people easily miss. It seems they didn't understand that sports cars are what attract people to visit them in the first place. By comparison, Mercedes has their 4-time F1 champion car right at the entrance; Alfa Romeo has the perennial last-row finisher Sauber F1 car (which the general public don't know, they only know they do F1); Audi has the carbon fibre grey R8 V10 Plus and an absolutely gorgeous lemon green RS4 Avant (they even sell it here!), not to mention a full row of M cars, starting from 1 all the way up to 6, in sedan and crossover flavors, plus a M760 V12, at the front row of the BMW booth. Their booth is bland and barren. They didn't show a structural blue LC or their perhaps only interesting sedan, the GS-F. It makes every Lexus owner embarrassed.

Also, no UX? Did they forget that crossovers are money printers? Speaking of money printers, they even passed on the RX-L. Apparently they think it's okay to to let Acura pick up all that free money.

And our hero ES, an ES260 F-Sport and an ES300h, are tucked in a corner no one can see, with no effort showing what's new and what's cool about them. Their staff don't even know the fuel economy and total system horsepower of the hybrid, because Lexus didn't give them any technical details. We know more by reading online. Yes, they took loads of pre-orders because to be honest, people who bothered visiting their booth are there to pre-order an ES. Their goal is very clear here: to sell the ES.

And of course they show the LS350 Executive Edition so they can perhaps milk more money by convincing some ES buyers to upgrade. It's an embarrassing product, while BBA are showing their best: the Maybach, the M760 V12, the plug-in A8. They don't show the 500h because apparently they are afraid its price tag will scare away ES buyers. Let me say this again: they don't show their flagship because they are afraid luxury car buyers can't afford it.

Now onto the positives:
>>They are taking loads of pre-orders. This thing will sell in record numbers. Lexus buyers are so confident in the brand that they buy them without even touching the interior.
>>Chinese buyers are almost 100% positive with the spindle grille. Nobody at the booth said "OMG it looks like the Predator I'm so scared!". They buy Lexus for the looks.
>>Their buyer demographic is very young. The IS has a lot of potential if the next generation is executed successfully. They need a cheaper variant against the likes of C200 and 320i, a hybrid to take advantage of their highly successful marketing campaign, as well as an IS-F to attract people to buy F-sport add-ons (that's how AMG/RS/M works). The looks department of current-gen is absolutely bang on; young people really want one, but the lack of a more accessible 200 or 260 variant stops them from buying it. Make it a look like a baby LC sedan with a better pricing structure and they have a 3 series killer.
>>The F-Sport has a lot of potential as well, again Lexus has the sportiest looks period, and F-Sport adds even more "WOW I want that" factor. Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels! It is the No.1 reason people don't buy the upgrade. People want a good looking car without having to be surrounded by flimsy plastic (the interior quality of the IS F-Sport is abysmal).

P.S. Pre-order starts now and delivery will begin in August.
P.P.S. It's funny how almost every visitor mentioned "260" is a better name than "250" (a pejorative word meaning "dumb").

I just came back from the Beijing Motor Show to share something about the new ES.

Well, there really is not a lot to say, but a lot to rant. I didn't even take any pictures of it, we saw all of them online. They only show the exterior and don't allow interior visits, so it's really hard to add any details.

Overall I am deeply disappointed with the ES launch and their overall marketing effort. To begin with, their booth is very, very small. It's not even half the size of Infiniti and Acura's, so there's no point even comparing it to BBA. As a result, they are not even displaying all their models, no GS or GX is predictable since they are on their way out. There is no RC; there is a white LC which certainly isn't the best color to show in a heavily lit hall, and the LC is at a corner that people easily miss. It seems they didn't understand that sports cars are what attract people to visit them in the first place. By comparison, Mercedes has their 4-time F1 champion car right at the entrance; Alfa Romeo has the perennial last-row finisher Sauber F1 car (which the general public don't know, they only know they do F1); Audi has the carbon fibre grey R8 V10 Plus and an absolutely gorgeous lemon green RS4 Avant (they even sell it here!), not to mention a full row of M cars, starting from 1 all the way up to 6, in sedan and crossover flavors, plus a M760 V12, at the front row of the BMW booth. Their booth is bland and barren. They didn't show a structural blue LC or their perhaps only interesting sedan, the GS-F. It makes every Lexus owner embarrassed.

Also, no UX? Did they forget that crossovers are money printers? Speaking of money printers, they even passed on the RX-L. Apparently they think it's okay to to let Acura pick up all that free money.

And our hero ES, an ES260 F-Sport and an ES300h, are tucked in a corner no one can see, with no effort showing what's new and what's cool about them. Their staff don't even know the fuel economy and total system horsepower of the hybrid, because Lexus didn't give them any technical details. We know more by reading online. Yes, they took loads of pre-orders because to be honest, people who bothered visiting their booth are there to pre-order an ES. Their goal is very clear here: to sell the ES.

And of course they show the LS350 Executive Edition so they can perhaps milk more money by convincing some ES buyers to upgrade. It's an embarrassing product, while BBA are showing their best: the Maybach, the M760 V12, the plug-in A8. They don't show the 500h because apparently they are afraid its price tag will scare away ES buyers. Let me say this again: they don't show their flagship because they are afraid luxury car buyers can't afford it.

Now onto the positives:
>>They are taking loads of pre-orders. This thing will sell in record numbers. Lexus buyers are so confident in the brand that they buy them without even touching the interior.
>>Chinese buyers are almost 100% positive with the spindle grille. Nobody at the booth said "OMG it looks like the Predator I'm so scared!". They buy Lexus for the looks.
>>Their buyer demographic is very young. The IS has a lot of potential if the next generation is executed successfully. They need a cheaper variant against the likes of C200 and 320i, a hybrid to take advantage of their highly successful marketing campaign, as well as an IS-F to attract people to buy F-sport add-ons (that's how AMG/RS/M works). The looks department of current-gen is absolutely bang on; young people really want one, but the lack of a more accessible 200 or 260 variant stops them from buying it. Make it a look like a baby LC sedan with a better pricing structure and they have a 3 series killer.
>>The F-Sport has a lot of potential as well, again Lexus has the sportiest looks period, and F-Sport adds even more "WOW I want that" factor. Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels! It is the No.1 reason people don't buy the upgrade. People want a good looking car without having to be surrounded by flimsy plastic (the interior quality of the IS F-Sport is abysmal).

P.S. Pre-order starts now and delivery will begin in August.
P.P.S. It's funny how almost every visitor mentioned "260" is a better name than "250" (a pejorative word meaning "dumb").

ssun30

Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels!

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

ssun30

Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels!

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

ssun30

Remember people just want a body kit on their 320i to pretend they had a M3. So Lexus listen: don't lock people out of interior options when they just want a body kit and bigger wheels!

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

Also, I talked to some ES buyers to see how they feel about the death of the GS, and I am shocked.

Over half of them responded that they actually wanted a GS. Remember most of these people are middle-age business people who want a comfortable car for company use, i.e. not the intended buyer demographic of the GS. But from their response the thought process really makes sense to me: they are attracted by the IS due to its refreshing looks, but they want something bigger. So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

Also, I talked to some ES buyers to see how they feel about the death of the GS, and I am shocked.

Over half of them responded that they actually wanted a GS. Remember most of these people are middle-age business people who want a comfortable car for company use, i.e. not the intended buyer demographic of the GS. But from their response the thought process really makes sense to me: they are attracted by the IS due to its refreshing looks, but they want something bigger. So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

Also, I talked to some ES buyers to see how they feel about the death of the GS, and I am shocked.

Over half of them responded that they actually wanted a GS. Remember most of these people are middle-age business people who want a comfortable car for company use, i.e. not the intended buyer demographic of the GS. But from their response the thought process really makes sense to me: they are attracted by the IS due to its refreshing looks, but they want something bigger. So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

Levi

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

There's nothing wrong about this from the manufacturer's perspective. It's a closed cycle: the M3 attracts people to buy the regular 3 series, BMW give them the instant gratification with that M-sport add-on, when those people grow older and accumulate wealth some will eventually buy a proper M3.

As for consumers themselves, it's a complicated matter and I won't judge them for this.

Levi

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

There's nothing wrong about this from the manufacturer's perspective. It's a closed cycle: the M3 attracts people to buy the regular 3 series, BMW give them the instant gratification with that M-sport add-on, when those people grow older and accumulate wealth some will eventually buy a proper M3.

As for consumers themselves, it's a complicated matter and I won't judge them for this.

Levi

Do not know if car manufacturers can be blamed for this, but it is still sad that customers/consumers are so ignorant and/or superficial.

There's nothing wrong about this from the manufacturer's perspective. It's a closed cycle: the M3 attracts people to buy the regular 3 series, BMW give them the instant gratification with that M-sport add-on, when those people grow older and accumulate wealth some will eventually buy a proper M3.

As for consumers themselves, it's a complicated matter and I won't judge them for this.

ssun30

So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

It is not really true though... We never had ES in Europe and still "nobody" bought GS. Everyone "wants" GS, but they dont want to pay for it over competition. It has very little to do with ES itself.

So obviously when you look at old ES and GS next to each other, it is pretty obvious that GS is much superior car... it looks better and interior is a lot better (even if boring), it is very high quality.

But then you look at the price and for $10k difference it is not worth it, or in the case of Europe, you get base E/A6/5 with 2.0d and much cheaper price.

ssun30

So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

It is not really true though... We never had ES in Europe and still "nobody" bought GS. Everyone "wants" GS, but they dont want to pay for it over competition. It has very little to do with ES itself.

So obviously when you look at old ES and GS next to each other, it is pretty obvious that GS is much superior car... it looks better and interior is a lot better (even if boring), it is very high quality.

But then you look at the price and for $10k difference it is not worth it, or in the case of Europe, you get base E/A6/5 with 2.0d and much cheaper price.

ssun30

So they checked on the GS and the ES, and their consensus is that the GS is the proper luxury car they actally want; the ES just doesn't "feel" or "look" right. What happens next is shockingly similar to what happens in the U.S., that the dealership doesn't want to sell the GS and persuade buyers to go for the ES by offering incentives that makes the GS totally unattractive.

Why this happens is really, really weird. Is it because dealers make less money per sale from an ES than from a GS? Is Lexus aware its dealers are doing this? If it wasn't then it's getting a very wrong message: that GS sales are bad not because people don't want one, but that they can't buy one.

You guys may know I've always been an ES loyalist and don't like the GS (while admitting it's the better car). Now I have some second thoughts about the decision to buy the new ES300h. I know it's a very safe decision and my business depends on it. But there is always that inner voice that screams "F it, I love cars, I've driven enough boring cars, it's time to get that GS-F".

It is not really true though... We never had ES in Europe and still "nobody" bought GS. Everyone "wants" GS, but they dont want to pay for it over competition. It has very little to do with ES itself.

So obviously when you look at old ES and GS next to each other, it is pretty obvious that GS is much superior car... it looks better and interior is a lot better (even if boring), it is very high quality.

But then you look at the price and for $10k difference it is not worth it, or in the case of Europe, you get base E/A6/5 with 2.0d and much cheaper price.

spwolf

We never had ES in Europe and still "nobody" bought GS. Everyone "wants" GS, but they dont want to pay for it over competition. It has very little to do with ES itself.

sad, but very true.