Comparing the New Lexus ES & Lexus LS Sedans

Posted by Kevin on April 18th, 2018

The next-generation Lexus ES has been revealed, and the similarities with the exterior design of the LS flagship are undeniable — let’s put them side-by-side for a comparison:

Lexus ES vs Lexus LS Front

Lexus ES vs Lexus LS Side

There are so many shared design cues that pointing out the differences turns into a game of its own — the headlights, the grille pattern, the lack of a chrome samurai blade along the bottom of the doors.

Overall, the ES is softer in its curves and less articulated in its angles, but this should be expected and even preferred. After all, the LS is the Lexus sedan flagship and can’t give away all its secrets.

(Special thanks to RAL on the forums for this post idea!)

Lexus ES: Sixth GenerationLexus LS: Fourth Generation
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Comments
S
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
S
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
A
Gecko
If the ES is going to debut at the Beijing show as rumored, that's just a few weeks away now. I think the reveal of the 7ES will tell us almost everything we need to know about the viability of the GS returning.

I love the idea of a more basic "executive sedan" ES and then an IS, GS and LS serving as the sporty, four door Lexus trio. I can always make a case of the GS, but we'll see...
That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.
A
Gecko
If the ES is going to debut at the Beijing show as rumored, that's just a few weeks away now. I think the reveal of the 7ES will tell us almost everything we need to know about the viability of the GS returning.

I love the idea of a more basic "executive sedan" ES and then an IS, GS and LS serving as the sporty, four door Lexus trio. I can always make a case of the GS, but we'll see...
That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.
S
asoksevil
That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.
there are indeed photos of camouflaged test vehicles as well as concept shots of how it should look like, like baby LS basically.

I agree on 300h vs 450h, huge difference in pricing.

We know that 2020 Highlander coming next year will have 300h version. I assume that RX will have it too, especially in Europe.
S
asoksevil
That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.
there are indeed photos of camouflaged test vehicles as well as concept shots of how it should look like, like baby LS basically.

I agree on 300h vs 450h, huge difference in pricing.

We know that 2020 Highlander coming next year will have 300h version. I assume that RX will have it too, especially in Europe.
Gecko
ssun30
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
Gecko
ssun30
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
As much as I would love to see it to become like that, it will not happen. The current platform cannot support such demands. Which is why I keep saying they need to change platforms ASAP.
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
As much as I would love to see it to become like that, it will not happen. The current platform cannot support such demands. Which is why I keep saying they need to change platforms ASAP.
S
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
it will certainly debut with latest GR version... lets be realistic, it is a great base engine for ES.
S
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
it will certainly debut with latest GR version... lets be realistic, it is a great base engine for ES.
S
ssun30
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
i bet that many will prefer GR-FKS to 2.5l turbo too... but fuel consumption might be considerably better in tests and in city.
S
ssun30
The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.
i bet that many will prefer GR-FKS to 2.5l turbo too... but fuel consumption might be considerably better in tests and in city.
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
As much as I would love to see it to become like that, it will not happen. The current platform cannot support such demands. Which is why I keep saying they need to change platforms ASAP.
It's moving to TNGA, and from everything I have seen, Toyota is trying to marry Dynamic Force engines to redesigns on TNGA. I know GR still has some life left, but it seems much better suited as a Toyota engine than Lexus next gen midsize sedan. This engine is now 13 years old...
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
As much as I would love to see it to become like that, it will not happen. The current platform cannot support such demands. Which is why I keep saying they need to change platforms ASAP.
It's moving to TNGA, and from everything I have seen, Toyota is trying to marry Dynamic Force engines to redesigns on TNGA. I know GR still has some life left, but it seems much better suited as a Toyota engine than Lexus next gen midsize sedan. This engine is now 13 years old...
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
It's moving to TNGA, and from everything I have seen, Toyota is trying to marry Dynamic Force engines to redesigns on TNGA. I know GR still has some life left, but it seems much better suited as a Toyota engine than Lexus next gen midsize sedan. This engine is now 13 years old...
Oh I am quite aware of the shift to TNGA, my issue is with the transverse FWD layout. It simply wont work. Second thing is, the V6 that debuted in the Camry/Avalon was almost all new. Most of the components were completely revamped. I don't think the age of the engine really matters in this case, but engine/drive train layout. If you remember, the Camry has massive issues with torque steer. It is extremely powerful and punchy from low revs for a naturally aspirated engine.

Anyways, the engine/drive-train layout must align with the rest of the models in order for it to get a brand new engine/driveline/transmission. Or else the ES will be a luxury version of the Avalon.
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
It's moving to TNGA, and from everything I have seen, Toyota is trying to marry Dynamic Force engines to redesigns on TNGA. I know GR still has some life left, but it seems much better suited as a Toyota engine than Lexus next gen midsize sedan. This engine is now 13 years old...
Oh I am quite aware of the shift to TNGA, my issue is with the transverse FWD layout. It simply wont work. Second thing is, the V6 that debuted in the Camry/Avalon was almost all new. Most of the components were completely revamped. I don't think the age of the engine really matters in this case, but engine/drive train layout. If you remember, the Camry has massive issues with torque steer. It is extremely powerful and punchy from low revs for a naturally aspirated engine.

Anyways, the engine/drive-train layout must align with the rest of the models in order for it to get a brand new engine/driveline/transmission. Or else the ES will be a luxury version of the Avalon.
maiaramdan
^^^
Even it will be a total lux. Avalon with the new Avalon so it will be great
Not as the current ES/Avalon where both nearly the same

If they can make a better luxurious New gen. Avalon they will have a winner
maiaramdan
^^^
Even it will be a total lux. Avalon with the new Avalon so it will be great
Not as the current ES/Avalon where both nearly the same

If they can make a better luxurious New gen. Avalon they will have a winner
S
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
The engine itself isn't necessarily the problem. Not being able to accomodate it would be the problem. They could totally drop the 318hp (which also revs to over 7000rpm) version in the GS/LS in there but it won't improve anything. And a new turbo motor in there would make the car even less driveable.

We shouldn't expect the debut of a new ES350 at the Beijing Motor Show since it won't be available for the Asian market. The ES250, ES300h, and probably an ES200 will come first, with an independent announcement for the NA-spec ES350 from Lexus of America later.

In any case the chance of seeing an ES capable of replacing the GS at launch is low.

Considering their priorities, the most likely candidate for the debut of 2.5 turbo will be the Highlander. We don't know when the ES is getting AWD, but we know for sure the new Highlander will have AWD on Day 1.
S
Gecko
If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.
The engine itself isn't necessarily the problem. Not being able to accomodate it would be the problem. They could totally drop the 318hp (which also revs to over 7000rpm) version in the GS/LS in there but it won't improve anything. And a new turbo motor in there would make the car even less driveable.

We shouldn't expect the debut of a new ES350 at the Beijing Motor Show since it won't be available for the Asian market. The ES250, ES300h, and probably an ES200 will come first, with an independent announcement for the NA-spec ES350 from Lexus of America later.

In any case the chance of seeing an ES capable of replacing the GS at launch is low.

Considering their priorities, the most likely candidate for the debut of 2.5 turbo will be the Highlander. We don't know when the ES is getting AWD, but we know for sure the new Highlander will have AWD on Day 1.
S
So i guess we can be sure now that the engine above 2.5l and below 3.5tt is 2.5t:

For those that did not get it yet, 2.5t was leaked earlier in bestcar/jp as new engine for ES, from next year.
Also interesting part is what would be hybrid above 2.5l THSII. It might be for next Highlander/RX, ie for heavier vehicles than Camry/Rav4 and ES.
[​IMG]
S
So i guess we can be sure now that the engine above 2.5l and below 3.5tt is 2.5t:

For those that did not get it yet, 2.5t was leaked earlier in bestcar/jp as new engine for ES, from next year.
Also interesting part is what would be hybrid above 2.5l THSII. It might be for next Highlander/RX, ie for heavier vehicles than Camry/Rav4 and ES.
[​IMG]
S
^^Also note the Multi-stage does not specify displacement, which means the architecture could be modular and accomodate a variety of ICE components. Lexus needs at least three output levels (replacements for 300h, 450h, and 600h) for hybrid GA-L so all of them could potentially receive the multi-stage, which is awesome.
S
^^Also note the Multi-stage does not specify displacement, which means the architecture could be modular and accomodate a variety of ICE components. Lexus needs at least three output levels (replacements for 300h, 450h, and 600h) for hybrid GA-L so all of them could potentially receive the multi-stage, which is awesome.
S
ssun30
^^Also note the Multi-stage does not specify displacement, which means the architecture could be modular and accomodate a variety of ICE components. Lexus needs at least three output levels (replacements for 300h, 450h, and 600h) for hybrid GA-L so all of them could potentially receive the multi-stage, which is awesome.
probably because they used existing base engine? I think "problem" here is the price, multi-stage should be very expensive solution which is why it might not be used in something like 300h, where price is important. I think both 500h applications are quite more expensive than V and V6tt but I did not check the pricing in Europe, or if 500 powertrains are available at all.
S
ssun30
^^Also note the Multi-stage does not specify displacement, which means the architecture could be modular and accomodate a variety of ICE components. Lexus needs at least three output levels (replacements for 300h, 450h, and 600h) for hybrid GA-L so all of them could potentially receive the multi-stage, which is awesome.
probably because they used existing base engine? I think "problem" here is the price, multi-stage should be very expensive solution which is why it might not be used in something like 300h, where price is important. I think both 500h applications are quite more expensive than V and V6tt but I did not check the pricing in Europe, or if 500 powertrains are available at all.
S
p.s. bestcar also had info on new Crown, that goes on sale in 2 months and it will have 2.0t, 300h and 3.5l V6... so i guess we will not see anything all-new there, but it might preview updates to the engines coming to GA rwd platform.
S
p.s. bestcar also had info on new Crown, that goes on sale in 2 months and it will have 2.0t, 300h and 3.5l V6... so i guess we will not see anything all-new there, but it might preview updates to the engines coming to GA rwd platform.

S