Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan Revealed!

supra93

I think the new ES looks a lot cleaner then the LS. I can't wait to see the interior.

+1

The new LS styling never grow on me
I think it was supposed to be either LS+ or LF-FC

But not this

Airplane

Honestly WTH is that trunk spoiler, so bulky and out of place.

This is a hybrid model, and like with the previous generation ES hybrid, Lexus attempts to make hybrids seem like they have better performance by giviing them a sporty body kit.

Looks very nice

krew

Comparing the New Lexus ES & Lexus LS Sedans

Count the differences.

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Dear god what is with those front overhangs?:weary_face: What an absolute mess, it's totally going to ruin the balance of the car.:pensive:

F1 Silver Arrows

Dear god what is with those front overhangs?:weary_face: What an absolute mess, it's totally going to ruin the balance of the car.:pensive:

I don't think its nearly as bad as you're blowing it out to be.

You don't see the "overhang" looking at the car from a human eye level perspective. You only see it when the photos are taken directly from the side from a toddler's point of view.

Thats why people always hate on cars when they see it from the new release photos but when they begin to see it in person, the design begins to "grow" on them.

Its very common.

zeusus

I don't think its nearly as bad as you're blowing it out to be.

You don't see the "overhang" looking at the car from a human eye level perspective. You only see it when the photos are taken directly from the side from a toddler's point of view.

Thats why people always hate on cars when they see it from the new release photos but when they begin to see it in person, the design begins to "grow" on them.

Its very common.

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

F1 Silver Arrows

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs.

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.

F1 Silver Arrows

The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers.

F1 Silver Arrows

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed.

These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

ssun30

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.




These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

I wish it was an exaggeration, because these are issues that reviewers and owners alike have reported from the 2018 Camry. I wouldn't waste my time here to spew anything but the truth here to be honest.

krew

Comparing the New Lexus ES & Lexus LS Sedans




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You can tell where they had to cut costs on the surfaces. But I don't see the point of releasing two very similar sedans in size and styling, with one twice the price of the other.

Seeing the teaser video gives me a little bit of hope that they will not discontinue the GS. can't see the ES replacing the GS

Seeing the teaser video gives me a little bit of hope that they will not discontinue the GS. can't see the ES replacing the GS

meth.ix

This is a hybrid model, and like with the previous generation ES hybrid, Lexus attempts to make hybrids seem like they have better performance by giviing them a sporty body kit.


the side profile of the current-gen ES looks like an overweight pig when compared with the new model lol...

Haha it so does

ssun30

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.

These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

FWD with long overhang does defeat the purpose of transverse. With most cars being 4 cylinders, the best layout would be longitudinal V4.

About exaggerating, the same could be said for interior "quality". Very few people in the w

It's stunning, now I can't wait to see the ALL-NEW GS >> No one comes and throw that rumor of discontinuing it, as I mentioned before the GS has a new generation on its way, but its not the global mid-size sedan anymore.

And there is no way the ES would come with an AWD system . It will be available only as FWD .

F1 Silver Arrows

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

From an engineering point of view, it's not impossible to remove the torque steer from a 320 hp car, here is an elaboration on this :



No torque steer at all in the fastest FWD car in the market .

Madi

And there is no way the ES would come with an AWD system . It will be available only as FWD mid-size sedan.

Why are you so convinced of this? Admittedly, you could be right. I just don't see ES becoming a credible GS replacement (especially in Europe) unless it offers an AWD option, though. And even if next week's Beijing 7ES launch is nothing but "regular" and hybrid FWD variants, I'll hold off on the pitchforks for a bit. It's possible that sportier AWD and F-Sport 7ES variants could be saved for a separate event or later launch.

Joaquin Ruhi

Why are you so convinced of this? Admittedly, you could be right. I just don't see ES becoming a credible GS replacement (especially in Europe) unless it offers an AWD option, though. And even if next week's Beijing 7ES launch is nothing but "regular" and hybrid FWD variants, I'll hold off on the pitchforks for a bit. It's possible that sportier AWD and F-Sport 7ES variants could be saved for a separate event or later launch.

Well, heh, lets put it this way - worldwide, Lexus needs ES to be AWD to compete with the germans.

I dont think it is replacement for GS in Europe anyway - very few people bought GS in Europe. But to compete with A6 for instance, they do need AWD. Same goes for Russia, one of their biggest markets as well as Japan - they all like AWD.

F1 Silver Arrows

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

I dont see the big deal in overhang, with every new TNGA, they actually reduced them.

Point here is that engine sits in front of the axle, and not behind like in LS. Thus you have larger overhang, plus design wise, they are making front end lower which requires more space and to me it looks a lot better than 2" shorter overhangs in some cars that end up having tall like a brick front end.

For instance that S90 has short overhangs, but car in person does not look good at all, it has tall front end that looks like in SUV (and it looks more natural in V90 version). Back end also finishes tall, car looks frumpy (and rear light design kill it) and it has large overhang of course, so it looks completely unbalanced.

And since that long wheelbase is used for the cabin exclusively, and not for the engine, you will have much larger area in the back for the passengers.

As to the switch to the RWD, that makes no sense at all and no they are not screwed, it will become best selling Lexus sedan worldwide in the history of the brand.

A while back, Lexus stated that the spindle requires more real estate on the front end of the car to design. Think about it... the hood slopes down to the front of the car and then they create the waterfall effect with the spindle, and then it generally juts out just towards the bottom of the bumper. This is very different from when we had smaller grills and bumpers that were more swept back.

Also, even if you look at RWD LS, Lexus simply does not care about front overhangs anymore. Look at UX and RX - both are terrible and quite foolish looking. FWD cars + spindle grill is a bad combination for design and Lexus has chosen form over function. It is what it is, unfortunately. It looks quite ridiculous.

With all of that said, I do not think the ES front overhang looks bad in these pics. In fact, it is quite similar to LS in that side-by-side photo. Part if that is because LS has a longer front overhang than it should for a RWD, longitudinal chassis with a V6... but here we are again at how the spindle impacts the design of the front end.

F1 Silver Arrows

I wish it was an exaggeration, because these are issues that reviewers and owners alike have reported from the 2018 Camry. I wouldn't waste my time here to spew anything but the truth here to be honest. Think of it like this. It will be the achilles heel for the new ES if they don't address the issue.

The point is they are by no means screwed by going transverse FWD. It will have close to zero impact on the financial side.

Gecko

Lexus simply does not care about front overhangs anymore. Look at UX and RX - both are terrible and quite foolish looking. FWD cars + spindle grill is a bad combination for design and Lexus has chosen form over function. It is what it is, unfortunately. It looks quite ridiculous.

Well, at least we will have HUGE "frunks" when they go electric. What are we going do with so much luggage space!

ssun30

The point is they are by no means screwed by going transverse FWD. It will have close to zero impact on the financial side.

Exactly. This will be the most successful ES ever, without a doubt. It looks great overall and has a nice implementation of spindle + LED headlights vs. previous version where spindle was tacked on at the refresh.

Most of all, the addition of AWD is big, but addition of F-Sport is huge... HUGE. This could sell 5-6k per month easily, even in a falling sedan market.

Gecko

I wonder if they will add ES 250 for US?

No because it will make it too cheap, deep into Avalon's territory.

Gecko

Exactly. This will be the most successful ES ever, without a doubt. It looks great overall and has a nice implementation of spindle + LED headlights vs. previous version where spindle was tacked on at the refresh.

Most of all, the addition of AWD is big, but addition of F-Sport is huge... HUGE. Remember when the internet said they didn't need to build an F Sport RX? Look at it now. This ES could sell 5-6k per month easily, even in a falling sedan market. I wonder if they will add ES 250 for US?

I think it will also be big everywhere, so ES might go over 200k sales worldwide for the first time... and that might bring us more options, more powertrains, etc.

spwolf

I think it will also be big everywhere, so ES might go over 200k sales worldwide for the first time... and that might bring us more options, more powertrains, etc.

Not really. BMW makes 520d all the way to M5. Most sold are 520d and 530i. If it were TMC, they'd just build these, without making the I6 and V8.

Levi

Not really. BMW makes 520d all the way to M5. Most sold are 520d and 530i. If it were TMC, they'd just build these, without making the I6 and V8.

but it is already shown to be true though. We already are certain that there will be ES F-Sport , and there are strong, substantial rumors of AWD too. Those two new additions are the proof that bigger expected sales and worldwide availability will expand ES lineup.

I am also pretty sure that worldwide Lexus ES will be available with many powertrains such as 2.0l 4cly, 2.5l 4cly, 2.0t and 3.5l V6... Together with 300h, thats 5 different powertrains.

spwolf

but it is already shown to be true though. We already are certain that there will be ES F-Sport , and there are strong, substantial rumors of AWD too. Those two new additions are the proof that bigger expected sales and worldwide availability will expand ES lineup.

I am also pretty sure that worldwide Lexus ES will be available with many powertrains such as 2.0l 4cly, 2.5l 4cly, 2.0t and 3.5l V6... Together with 300h, thats 5 different powertrains.

But that is also the reason why ES does not need to be RWD-based to have a V8, otherwise there would be a new gen GS. LS still has a business case unlike the GS.

Levi

But that is also the reason why ES does not need to be RWD-based to have a V8, otherwise there would be a new gen GS. LS still has a business case unlike the GS.

I dont quite understand what you are saying. I did not write anything about V8 or replacing GS, just more powertrains and options will be available for ES since it is a worldwide car. Simply, more money is being put into its development.

It does not need an V8 ever, and it is not replacing GS-F. GS is quite likely to continue from the stories posted here by well informed sources, just will have different market - sport coupe sedan one.

F1 Silver Arrows

Dear god what is with those front overhangs?:weary_face: What an absolute mess, it's totally going to ruin the balance of the car.:pensive:

As to the question of overhangs ... Now this is an overhang!

View attachment 2817

But ... a shark needs room for a big mouth to eat your children!

View attachment 2818

As to the question of overhangs ... this is an overhang!

View attachment 2819

But, a shark needs room for a large mouth in order to be able to eat your children! :worried:

View attachment 2820

I never knew what front overhangs are until now, and now that I know, I don't understand why it's so hated on. Sure, some cars would look better with the wheels stretched out to the front, but it doesn't really look that bad without doing so. For the sporty type of car, then I would agree that the overhangs should be short, but for a FWD family sedan like the ES, I don't think it's a big deal. For the GS, which is more about performance, it will have shorter front overhangs when it is (hopefully :tired_face::tired_face:) debuted.

I guess I am the only one skeptic of this new ES. However if they don't address a few things immediately that people usually will gripe about in regards to this car then I don't think this should be any more special than the past ES cars. I do hope Lexus proves me wrong, because at the end I would want them to knock this thing out of the park. So far, I am just not feeling it. Sorry guys.