Rendered: The Next-Generation Lexus ES Sedan

I think this looks a lot better than the current ES, and that a higher-end AWD version could fill the space between the ES and LS better than the current GS does. The GS is the car between the IS and a high-performance premium sedan that Lexus never bothered to make.

So I will restore my GS-F & my previous generation GS450h and making them as the idols of good dream

Since we now have some PU info it's becoming more obvious that US, Russia, Ukraine and Middle East will keep the current V6 while other regions that prefer downsizing will get the 2.5 Turbo with similar horsepower to current V6. I'm also suspecting EU will get 2.0 from new Toyota Corolla Hatchback and hybrid option goes global. Maybe they have 450h trick up their sleeve new ES as well.

Gecko

This car will not sell to the GS buyer, and quite frankly, I am not sure it will really compete with E Class. FWD A6 variants? Maybe.

I agree with you.

After having four IS, in a couple of year I would like change my IS300H MY2017 with a bigger car.
LS is too much, so I had great expectations for the next ES (if available in EU) but if this render is similar to the final version, to be honest, I am so sorry if they end the GS development, the new ES.... does not give me enough emotions.

I hope the final version will be more brave and more competitive with A6.

And also I am curious to see inside and, above all the technology.

This redesign looks good , the GS will be missed and maybe the GS F may go up in price . If this is true .

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

Why is the

maiaramdan

Honestly if it looks anything like this render I will take the new Avalon over it any day

The Avalon looks way more bold, and its basically the same car with a cheaper price tag, I don't see why not. I feel like ES buyer are mostly brand snobs that buys the Lexus brand. Unless it has AWD and I doubt that will happen right at launch.

A Avalon is a Avalon , a Lexus ES is a way of life ! Add it along with the LS and it’s the real reason we all are on this site . These two cars built what we all talk about all the time . And the head lights look cool .

Killing the GS for this Hyundai lookalike. The sad part now is toyota have found direction when it comes to styling lexus is still confused

GTG

A Avalon is a Avalon , a Lexus ES is a way of life ! .

It all depends on what your way of life means, something I absolutely don't want to judge.
But the new ES may have a little bit more than this render, we've already seen better.

If the new ES is positioned between the current ES and the GS, then it can be much more.
It will be a very important version for Lexus, especially now that we're a bit in the dark about what will happen to the GS.
As @krew already mentioned, we can only hope that the concept of the LF-1 was an indication for a totally new GS, why not ?!
But I don't believe that there is already confirmation that the LF-1 concept will ever become a production model.

As long as it moves forward a little, and that no less than 5 years is needed, because I can't wait that long.
There are other (very exciting) alternatives, maybe that's something I'm looking for in my life?

The GS is a great car , but the ES is more than that . Sales sales sales , sales people , the ES is selling more than the GS in almost all of its markets . If you drive a Toyota Avalon or what ever and you think it looks good and even better than an ES because this rendering is to much for you then that cool . Just saying the GS is lacking in many areas against it competitors and the ES has maybe three to complete with , its ahead of them all the time in sales . , when I say a way of life I mean if you like Lexus then you can go get a different car . And if you love Lexus you will buy it no matter how it looks . Dependable , value , comfort, resale value the list goes on . If I could get a GS F or GS or Lexus give me one cool . This ES looks great but we will see the final product soon .

There are two conversations happening at the same time -- this rendering of the next-generation ES, and the fact that the ES looks to be replacing the GS as the Lexus midsize sedan.

Standing alone, a new ES that looks like that rendering is a home run. It's once we start factoring in the GS cancellation things get complicated.

This is a sales move most definitely, as developing a new GS would take up resources that could be allocated to crossovers and the ES is a near-guaranteed success. I see this as Lexus shifting away from the 5-series & E Class mold and pursuing the Audi A6. That said, there's an emotional component with the GS that the ES just doesn't have.

I'm torn on this, honestly. And like so much, it depends on the product. The ES will not be able to replicate the GS driving experience, but it's tough to write off a car based on an unofficial photochop.

krew

There are two conversations happening at the same time -- this rendering of the next-generation ES, and the fact that the ES looks to be replacing the GS as the Lexus midsize sedan.

Standing alone, a new ES that looks like that rendering is a home run. It's once we start factoring in the GS cancellation things get complicated.

This is a sales move most definitely, as developing a new GS would take up resources that could be allocated to crossovers and the ES is a near-guaranteed success. I see this as Lexus shifting away from the 5-series & E Class mold and pursuing the Audi A6. That said, there's an emotional component with the GS that the ES just doesn't have.

I'm torn on this, honestly. And like so much, it depends on the product. The ES will not be able to replicate the GS driving experience, but it's tough to write off a car based on an unofficial photochop.

However A6 have S and RS/Avant trims and have AWD in the top trims. A6/7 are still considered exciting cars to a lot of people, the ES is known for its bland drawing experience and it will be hard to turn that around even if Lexus make the ES exciting to drive. ES will always be the "overpriced" Toyota Avalon.

Yuan

However A6 have S and RS/Avant trims and have AWD in the top trims. A6/7 are still considered exciting cars to a lot of people, the ES is known for its bland drawing experience and it will be hard to turn that around even if Lexus make the ES exciting to drive. ES will always be the "overpriced" Toyota Avalon.

You do realize up until a couple of years ago the base A6 here was a 210hp CVT, FWD car right. So please lets not just bash Lexus. While I agree the ES nameplate will be a tough name to turnaround the good news is it has a strong base already compared to the GS.

If the ES looks anything like that rendering and from what I've heard internally, it will be a grand slam home run. It just is a shame it seems the GS will be gone.

mikeavelli

You do realize up until a couple of years ago the base A6 here was a 210hp CVT, FWD car right. So please lets not just bash Lexus. While I agree the ES nameplate will be a tough name to turnaround the good news is it has a strong base already compared to the GS.

If the ES looks anything like that rendering and from what I've heard internally, it will be a grand slam home run. It just is a shame it seems the GS will be gone.

So? Did the A6 not have the S and RS version before the couple of years ago?

As I understand, the underpinnings of the IS and GS are very closely related. It could be that the IS will grow into being the GS replacement, regardless of the ES.

TheNerdyPotato

As I understand, the underpinnings of the IS and GS are very closely related. It could be that the IS will grow into being the GS replacement, regardless of the ES.

Which is a logical step they should make.

Which could then leave an opening for a new entry-level coupe. RWD 2-seater with that 2.5T and Lexus refinement for >$35k would hit a sweet spot for me, especially if it was offered with a manual transmission.

TheNerdyPotato

Which could then leave an opening for a new entry-level coupe. RWD 2-seater with that 2.5T and Lexus refinement for <$35k would hit a sweet spot for me, especially if it was offered with a manual transmission.

But that's pretty much a recipe for disaster from a financial perspective. One can dream though.

spwolf

Bestcar about Lexus ES in Japan:
https://bestcarweb.jp/news/newcar/2544

Baby LS at half the cost? Looks like a home run!

My theory is we will see the ES move to the Avalon platform, which is technically a large car, and the next IS will grow considerably to be roughly the size of the Camry. That would also help stem the losses from GS retirement.

The ES is already on the Avalon platform since the current generation. They are virtually the same dimension and have the same powertrain.

The 2013 Lexus ES is no longer the Lexus-skinned clone of Toyota’s best-selling Camry sedan; it now rides a platform that has been stretched by two inches in comparison to the more plebian model. (It now shares its platform directly with the all-new 2013 Avalon instead of with the Camry.)

https://web.archive.org/web/2012040...eveals-2013-es-new-hybrid-variant-120697.html

^For sure, I was just referencing the new TNGA platform for large FWD cars. Should have clarified.

A Camry-sized IS would indeed be pretty cool. A Camry-sized IS F with the TTV6 would be even cooler.

GTG

The GS is a great car , but the ES is more than that . Sales sales sales , sales people , the ES is selling more than the GS in almost all of its markets . If you drive a Toyota Avalon or what ever and you think it looks good and even better than an ES because this rendering is to much for you then that cool . Just saying the GS is lacking in many areas against it competitors and the ES has maybe three to complete with , its ahead of them all the time in sales . , when I say a way of life I mean if you like Lexus then you can go get a different car . And if you love Lexus you will buy it no matter how it looks . Dependable , value , comfort, resale value the list goes on . If I could get a GS F or GS or Lexus give me one cool . This ES looks great but we will see the final product soon .

See for me Lexus equal GS & V8 LS
I own currently a white 2016 GS-F
Before it I had
2010 GS450h
2008 GS460
2006 LS460
2001 LS430
1996 GS300

Just once drove the RX and I am from those who believe luxurious = RWD

krew

There are two conversations happening at the same time -- this rendering of the next-generation ES, and the fact that the ES looks to be replacing the GS as the Lexus midsize sedan.

Standing alone, a new ES that looks like that rendering is a home run. It's once we start factoring in the GS cancellation things get complicated.

This is a sales move most definitely, as developing a new GS would take up resources that could be allocated to crossovers and the ES is a near-guaranteed success. I see this as Lexus shifting away from the 5-series & E Class mold and pursuing the Audi A6. That said, there's an emotional component with the GS that the ES just doesn't have.

I'm torn on this, honestly. And like so much, it depends on the product. The ES will not be able to replicate the GS driving experience, but it's tough to write off a car based on an unofficial photochop.

Agree on everything except that GS will take more resources than the ES
The GS will be simply on the GA-L as LS, GS, Century & Crown so the R&D cost will be distributed on all of those, I didn't even yet count the next Mark-X and the next RC/IS which 100% will have a shorter wheel base from the same chassis , and the number may grow if we add also the production model of the LF-1

@Ian Schmidt , @Gecko and everyone wants the IS to grow to the GS size

If the IS grows to Camry / GS dimensions so why the GS got deleted from the beginning?, and how we know that because of that grow the IS will have the same GS fate? !!!

maiaramdan

If the IS grows to Camry / GS dimensions so why the GS got deleted from the beginning?, and how we know that because of that grow the IS will have the same GS fate? !!!

It's an interesting topic and I have a few points to share. But let's stick to ES for now and not digress too much.

ssun30

But that's pretty much a recipe for disaster from a financial perspective. One can dream though.

Dammit. I basically just described a BMW 230i, didn't I?

maiaramdan

@Ian Schmidt , @Gecko and everyone wants the IS to grow to the GS size

If the IS grows to Camry / GS dimensions so why the GS got deleted from the beginning?, and how we know that because of that grow the IS will have the same GS fate? !!!

I think it is a relevant discussion since the elimination of the GS and "upgrading" of the ES does shift things around for Lexus' entire sedan lineup. Without going too far off topic here, almost every generation of IS has had some complaints about the small size and a rear seat that's practically unusable for passengers. The Q50, for example, is a larger car that's comfortable for four and still an IS competitor. With the market for passenger cars dropping off, adding a few extra inches to the IS here and there would make it more appealing to many - including disenfranchised GS owners. The market for smaller sedans like CLA/A3 is quite minuscule and while I don't think the IS is that small, it could stand to grow a bit. If they offer a compelling enough engine option and some nice luxury/F Sport packages, I can see it being an option for those who are loyal to Lexus but missing the GS.