Lexus UX Subcompact Crossover Revealed!

This thing is gonna look amazing wrapped, lowered, and Vossen'd.

Yeah I was expecting to hate it but its well done to me, the interior is very good. How I would love to see something to fight the GLA 45 with a UX-F!

Ian Schmidt

This thing is gonna look amazing wrapped, lowered, and Vossen'd.

#Schmidt2020 hhahahahah :)

Joe

Frankly, I am a bit surprised being one of the few that like the UX. I don't understand all these negative comments here. Or did you all really seriously expected that this model would be an LC 500 on high heels?:confused:

I'm still thinking things through, but my take is also positive. I do feel the design is conservative, but that's only in comparison to the LC & LS.

I'm very much on board with the UX/NX/RX design as a whole, though I share @Gecko's dislike of the front overhangs. Even so, the RX L was a course correction by balancing the front and rear overhangs, and the UX does the same thing. At least they're even.

I do wonder why this is a late-2018 release rather than mid-2017, as the UX will now have to sit beside both the next-generation RX and NX.

Ian Schmidt

This thing is gonna look amazing wrapped, lowered, and Vossen'd.

Literally said the same thing today to @Gecko. Blacked out, it's going to be BOSS. :bomb:

If the UX comes with the features @Gecko mentioned as standard, I feel as if it will succeed in its mission. Every X1 that I see is a base lease special with halogen headlights, if it in fact is actually owned buy a consumer and not living life as a dealer service loaner. I can't attest to how the UX feels in terms of interior quality, but the BMW is just bad. It's almost a $45k car before you've got decent quality seats and not the park-bench quality Sensatec. Frankly, even non-car people recognize the new X1 as BMW's red headed stepchild with minivan looking proportions.

^Make no mistake though - this is UX in press photos, so it is likely the fully optioned model. I am sure there will be models with 16" wheels, halogen projectors, NuLuxe interior, painted plastic trim, etc.

Not being a hater, just pointing out that we have all seen "stripper" X1s for a while because they're on the road now. This is UX's first debut so of course, Lexus will show top-spec models to the media.

I still prefer the exterior design of the X1, but will not disagree that UX seems to have the nicest interior of all.

Gecko

^Make no mistake though - this is UX in press photos, so it is likely the fully optioned model. I am sure there will be models with 16" wheels, halogen projectors, NuLuxe interior, painted plastic trim, etc.

Not being a hater, just pointing out that we have all seen "stripper" X1s for a while because they're on the road now. This is UX's first debut so of course, Lexus will show top-spec models to the media.

I still prefer the exterior design of the X1, but will not disagree that UX seems to have the nicest interior of all.

Thankfully for Lexus, there are not many differences usually when it comes to interior. There will be 17" and 18" wheels, and likely cloth interior for EU, maybe smaller media screen? But otherwise, not many differences as usual with Lexus.

I'm sorry ... I don't get it ... how would you guys change this design to make it 'less conservative' and yet 'less hyperbolic' than the concept?

spwolf

Still, makes you wonder why they did not offer 2.5l with 208hp for US market... making it cheaper and further away from NX?

For Western Europe, Hybrid will likely be 90% of sales and for Russia who knows, maybe hybrid will be more than 30%.

For some random, unexplainable reason, I woke up this morning thinking about the 2nd-gen Lexus IS launch. The 2005 Geneva Motor Show saw the world premiere of the IS 220d and IS 250 variants. Barely a month later, at the 2005 New York Auto Show, the larger-engined IS 350 made its world debut. And a number of Lexus lines, such as 6ES, 4GS and 4RX have seen the public unveilings of their numerous engine and F-Sport variants spread among multiple auto shows.

Although it's unlikely (given the "UX 200 and UX 250h will start production this fall and go on sale in the U.S. in December" sentence ending the Lexus USA news release for UX), could Lexus be holding back UX 250 for a New York Auto Show world premiere at the end of this month?

I think that low ride height and hatchback-esque side profile is a clear indication Lexus is committed to replacing the CT with UX.

"Single knob ventilation control with wireless lighting

The UX’s air vents have a new single-knob control for air flow direction and volume, illuminated using a new wireless system. By combining the two functions in a single control, the vents could be made larger, improving performance. Each control has an LED light source that is powered wirelessly, using electromagnetic resonance between two coils vibrating at the same frequency. Using the same design principle as the LC’s rear combination lamps, the vent lights use mirror optics to create the effect of floating lighting depth, even though the reflector element is only 3mm thick."

This really is crazy!

Joaquin Ruhi

For some random, unexplainable reason, I woke up this morning thinking about the 2nd-gen Lexus IS launch. The 2005 Geneva Motor Show saw the world premiere of the IS 220d and IS 250 variants. Barely a month later, at the 2005 New York Auto Show, the larger-engined IS 350 made its world debut. And a number of Lexus lines, such as 6ES, 4GS and 4RX have seen the public unveilings of their numerous engine and F-Sport variants spread among multiple auto shows.

Although it's unlikely (given the "UX 200 and UX 250h will start production this fall and go on sale in the U.S. in December" sentence ending the Lexus USA news release for UX), could Lexus be holding back UX 250 for a New York Auto Show world premiere at the end of this month?

That would mean both 2.0l and 2.5l would be sold, which is unlikely.

NA PR was specific for NA. There were some features not available in Europe and some features not available for NA were not shown there, but were shown in Europe.

I am pretty sure they are trying to keep it cheaper than NX by few k. They always did this.

If we look at X1 vs X3, sales of X1 are up while for X3 are down... Lexus is trying to avoid this.

Videos: The Lexus UX 250h at the Geneva Motor Show

Five great videos of the new Lexus crossover.

View the original article post

Very well proportioned look to this vehicle should do very well.
When can we expect the new ES and what of the GS now well overdue for replacement and no definite news on this front?
The IS too is just about ready for replacement/update cannot be far away.
Not sure why Toyota chose to utilise a Lexus type grille on the new Avalon/ES ugly in my opinion rather spoils what is essentially a good looking vehicle.
Still believe the Spindle grille needs to be toned down somewhat although in the newer models it does not shout quite as much as it used or maybe I have just got used to it! Not my favourite part of Lexus I must admit.

I think this should do very well for Lexus as well. The appearance of the UX has grown on me as I've studied it over the past few days. It has a nice stance and the proportions are good. The interior is very nice looking but of course the quality of materials is hard to judge by photos and the proof will be in touching and seeing it in person.

I'm looking at making the hybrid version of the UX my first lexus, assuming it's not slow as a slug. I currently have a RAV4 Hybrid, but I'm not really a fan of how big/whale-like in handling it is (my prior vehicle was a Mazda3). When I test drove the CT200h a few years ago, my wife and I noted that it just didn't feel very Lexus-like nor did the vehicle seem to have enough power to be able to go up a bridge/hill without sounding awful. One thing I did like about it was the the handling and body shape. Hopefully the UX doesn't end up being any slower than my RAV4 (it's actually pretty peppy for such a heavy vehicle). I don't really care if it's not sports car fast (there are precious few opportunities to wring out an engine when you live in a big city), but 0-60 > 10sec is painful for every day driving and when trying to perform passing maneuvers on the interstate. There are quite a few unknowns at this point, since the dynamic force 2L + hybrid system has not been put in any other vehicle yet, nor did Lexus state the size of the battery pack (I'm assuming it's similar in size to what's in the regular Prius). The overall look appeals to me, since it kind of looks like a Lexus version of the Mazda3 I owned a few years back. At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic about the vehicle.

Almost forgot: It bugs the crap out of me that the hybrid model is 250h. Why didn't they call it 200h if they're putting the 2L + hybrid system in it?? Car companies are weird.

telithos

I'm looking at making the hybrid version of the UX my first lexus, assuming it's not slow as a slug. I currently have a RAV4 Hybrid, but I'm not really a fan of how big/whale-like in handling it is (my prior vehicle was a Mazda3). When I test drove the CT200h a few years ago, my wife and I noted that it just didn't feel very Lexus-like nor did the vehicle seem to have enough power to be able to go up a bridge/hill without sounding awful. One thing I did like about it was the the handling and body shape. Hopefully the UX doesn't end up being any slower than my RAV4 (it's actually pretty peppy for such a heavy vehicle). I don't really care if it's not sports car fast (there are precious few opportunities to wring out an engine when you live in a big city), but 0-60 > 10sec is painful for every day driving and when trying to perform passing maneuvers on the interstate. There are quite a few unknowns at this point, since the dynamic force 2L + hybrid system has not been put in any other vehicle yet, nor did Lexus state the size of the battery pack (I'm assuming it's similar in size to what's in the regular Prius). The overall look appeals to me, since it kind of looks like a Lexus version of the Mazda3 I owned a few years back. At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic about the vehicle.

Almost forgot: It bugs the crap out of me that the hybrid model is 250h. Why didn't they call it 200h if they're putting the 2L + hybrid system in it?? Car companies are weird.

- 250h has bigger battery output compared to Prius. Where Prius has 23 hp max battery output, 250h has 34hp max battery output + 44hp stronger engine.
- 250h has been configured to give more electric power sooner to make revs lower and accelerate faster.
- 250h is estimated to go 0-100kmh in low 7's to mid 8's, depending on the vehicle... thats a lot better than 122hp hybrid in C-HR, but as expected since it has 45hp more overall.

telithos

I'm looking at making the hybrid version of the UX my first lexus, assuming it's not slow as a slug. I currently have a RAV4 Hybrid, but I'm not really a fan of how big/whale-like in handling it is (my prior vehicle was a Mazda3). When I test drove the CT200h a few years ago, my wife and I noted that it just didn't feel very Lexus-like nor did the vehicle seem to have enough power to be able to go up a bridge/hill without sounding awful. One thing I did like about it was the the handling and body shape. Hopefully the UX doesn't end up being any slower than my RAV4 (it's actually pretty peppy for such a heavy vehicle). I don't really care if it's not sports car fast (there are precious few opportunities to wring out an engine when you live in a big city), but 0-60 > 10sec is painful for every day driving and when trying to perform passing maneuvers on the interstate. There are quite a few unknowns at this point, since the dynamic force 2L + hybrid system has not been put in any other vehicle yet, nor did Lexus state the size of the battery pack (I'm assuming it's similar in size to what's in the regular Prius). The overall look appeals to me, since it kind of looks like a Lexus version of the Mazda3 I owned a few years back. At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic about the vehicle.

Almost forgot: It bugs the crap out of me that the hybrid model is 250h. Why didn't they call it 200h if they're putting the 2L + hybrid system in it?? Car companies are weird.

Welcome new member @telithos ... appreciate you sharing your thoughts about possible UX ownership

telithos

Almost forgot: It bugs the crap out of me that the hybrid model is 250h. Why didn't they call it 200h if they're putting the 2L + hybrid system in it?? Car companies are weird.

Just like everyone else, Lexus uses the 'displacement equivalency' for the model number. That 178hp hybrid drivetrain will behave like/outperform a 2.5L engine in most daily driving scenarios.

Displacement equivalency makes tons of sense from a marketing perspective because consumers think they are buying something bigger and better. Changing the name from 'NX200t' to 'NX300' was all it took for Lexus to make that model from a tough sell to a money printer in China, for example. Lexus USA realized the name '200t' sounds weak and simply used 'IS Turbo' and 'GS Turbo' instead before the official name is changed to '300'.

telithos

There are quite a few unknowns at this point, since the dynamic force 2L + hybrid system has not been put in any other vehicle yet...

The Dynamic Force Hybrid system actually debuted with the 2.5-liter A25A-FXS powertrain in the latest 8th-gen (XV70) Toyota Camry on sale since last August, and will also go into the newest 5th-gen (XX50) Toyota Avalon due to go on sale a few months before Lexus UX 250h. The latter will use the 2-liter A20A-FXS, which is just the Camry/Avalon unit described above downsized to 2 liters.

Thank you for the information on the Powertrains. I understand what they’re going for on the naming (yes, the naming on CT200h *did* bother me a little). As a software developer, model names that describe what’s actually under the hood make more sense to me than their power equivalent. It’s just preference, I suppose. The naming convention could certainly be much worse.

I’m trying to get an idea how the hybrid system in the ux250h will compare to the one in my RAV4 hybrid. The RAV4 is certainly heavier than the UX250H will be. Basically, I’m hoping the UX will be less floaty with similar acceleration and a much nicer interior. It certainly sounds that way this point, though only time and a test drive once they’re available will tell.

spwolf

- 250h has bigger battery output compared to Prius. Where Prius has 23 hp max battery output, 250h has 34hp max battery output + 44hp stronger engine.
- 250h has been configured to give more electric power sooner to make revs lower and accelerate faster.
- 250h is estimated to go 0-100kmh in low 7's to mid 8's, depending on the vehicle... thats a lot better than 122hp hybrid in C-HR, but as expected since it has 45hp more overall.

I think that is almost as fast as the RAV4H, which was around 7.8 seconds measured by Motortrend.

Good to know the 250h will likely not disappoint.

telithos

Thank you for the information on the Powertrains. I understand what they’re going for on the naming (yes, the naming on CT200h *did* bother me a little). As a software developer, model names that describe what’s actually under the hood make more sense to me than their power equivalent. It’s just preference, I suppose. The naming convention could certainly be much worse.

It bothers me as well. Unfortunately, this arbitrary "displacement equivalency" is widespread among luxury carmakers. At first, it was only Lexus applying it to its hybrid models, but then BMW and Mercedes-Benz started coming up with such arbitrary equivalencies for its boosted (primarily turbocharged) models, and Lexus followed suit with their boosted non-hybrid models.

If luxury carmakers are so gung-ho on doing away with references to actual displacement, perhaps the most logical system is the one just being implemented by Jaguar, which also accounts for the multiple states of tune offered on many engines. The model name is followed by a 3-digit number denoting its horsepower.

LEXUS PRESS CONFERENCE GENEVA MOTOR SHOW 2018
Text from the presentations given by Pascal Ruch, Head of Lexus Europe, and Chika Kako, Chief Engineer of the UX, at the launch of the Lexus UX at the Geneva Motor Show.

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen. It’s my pleasure to welcome you to Lexus!

It has been nearly 30 years since we launched our brand. If you think about it, Lexus was a disrupter at that time, demonstrating that we could build innovative vehicles, with great performance and incredible quality. Of course at the centre was and always will be our commitment to providing a personalized and exceptional customer experience.

Over the years we have leveraged our disrupter mindset and our DNA of product innovation by introducing industry-first technologies in many fields such as active safety, car manufacturing and on-board premium features.

Other innovations include bringing the first premium crossover to market with the RX.

And of course our industry leading self-charging hybrid has been nothing short of amazing. Since we introduced this new technology to the premium market back in 2005, we have sold more hybrids than all of our competitors combined.

Today we have the largest range of premium self-charging hybrids on the market with over 1.3 million sold globally, and more than 350 thousand in Europe.

Our disruptor mindset and Lexus DNA have extended to the design of our vehicles. The Lexus signature grille has become a hallmark in the industry and we collected many awards for innovation in design, such as with the recently launched LC.

Now let’s take a look at some of the vehicles we have with us today.

10 years ago we introduced the F marque … combining muscular design, authentic sports performance and cutting-edge technologies. Today we present here in Geneva the car that brings this milestone to life: the RC F 10th anniversary edition. This will be a limited run of only 350 units globally … and European customers can expect to take delivery by the end of the summer.

Now let’s look further into the future. At the recent Detroit Motor show we have revealed our vision of a new type of flagship crossover with the Lexus LF-1 Limitless Concept, and today it’s making its European Premiere here in Geneva.

This amazing vehicle signals our future design direction. It’s combining crossover capabilities with outstanding performance, innovative features and Lexus true quality.

The LF-1 Limitless Concept is like a co-pilot, anticipating the needs of its driver and passengers. For example, it has a virtual assistant with links to navigation, radar and cameras to provide advanced predictive capabilities.

As a further proof of our disruptor mind set and commitment to innovation, this vehicle is capable of hosting any powertrain: self-charging hybrid, plug-in hybrid, battery electric or even fuel cell.

Limitless is more than just the name of the concept vehicle; it’s also how we see our opportunities for the coming years. Already today, 98% of our sales in Western Europe are electrified, and we will continue playing a leading role in the electrification trend in the global automotive industry.

Now let’s turn to more immediate product news.

Our next launch is just around the corner: it’s the RX L, our first seven-seater to be offered in Western Europe. The RX L retains the stylish and elegant design of the RX, while offering even more space and versatility.

This has been achieved by optimizing vehicle packaging with only 110 mm additional length. Third-row passengers also benefit from great comfort and luxury, for example thanks to a 3-zone climate control system. On top, the RX L offers great luggage space flexibility behind the third row.

Ladies and Gentlemen, with close to 75 thousand Lexus sales in 2017 in Europe – the highest ever – we achieved our 4th consecutive year of sales growth. But our ambition is to get to 100 thousand vehicles in Europe by 2020.

One model will strongly contribute to this objective and to the growth of the Lexus brand globally. It’s covered here on my right, it’s one of our most exciting product launches ever.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to introduce now in world premiere the new Lexus UX.

Thank you! This is a new type of crossover and I can tell you, everyone at Lexus was excited to reveal it to the world today. Among us, there’s one person who is probably even more passionate than everyone else.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

Ms Chika Kako, Lexus Executive Vice President and chief engineer of the new UX.

Good morning Lexus Guests. Thank you for joining us on this special occasion.

The Lexus UX introduces a new genre crossover. It is built for modern adventurers who prefer an imaginative, refined lifestyle, and who are on a non-stop adventure to experience it. We call them Creative Urban Explorers.

The aim for the UX was not to conform to the established, solid crossover look, but to achieve a compact design that is both strong and stylish, breaking with the conventions of the segment to deliver something more distinctive and dynamic.

The vehicle’s interior was very important to me, because that is where driver and car connect. The UX cabin is very stylish, with high quality materials designed by the best Japanese craftsmen and an ‘inside-out’ philosophy inspired by a traditional style of Japanese architecture which blurs the boundary between the inside and outside of a house.

The foundation for the vehicle’s dynamic performance focuses on enabling nimble and instant response to driver inputs, while maintaining a sense of stability and safety.

For more on what’s under the UX’s hood, here’s Pascal…

Pascal Ruch

Thank you, Kako-san, for such a great vehicle.

In terms of powertrains, of course our self-charging hybrid technology will play a key role in the UX line-up, especially in Europe! The UX 250h will feature a new-generation 2 litre petrol engine combined with a compact electric motor, or even two in the all-wheel drive version. This powertrain will bring segment-leading fuel efficiency as well as a smooth and dynamic driving experience.

The UX will also be available as UX 200, with a brand new 2 litre petrol engine and transmission, delivering superior energy efficiency and direct acceleration feeling.

So, Ladies and Gentlemen, as you can see, with this UX, the other models here on display and our ongoing commitment to innovative powertrains, Lexus will continue to disrupt the market.

Let me now also introduce the Chief Designer of UX, Mr. Tetsuo Miki and Chief Branding Officer, Mr. Tokuo Fukuichi. And now I would like to invite on stage the president of Lexus International, Mr. Yoshihiro Sawa for the photoshoot.

Thank you very much for your attention. Please take some time to discover UX and the other new models and enjoy your day in Geneva.

http://media.lexus.co.uk/2018/03/lexus-press-conference-geneva-motor-show-2018/

Joaquin Ruhi

It bothers me as well. Unfortunately, this arbitrary "displacement equivalency" is widespread among luxury carmakers. At first, it was only Lexus applying it to its hybrid models, but then BMW and Mercedes-Benz started coming up with such arbitrary equivalencies for its boosted (primarily turbocharged) models, and Lexus followed suit with their boosted non-hybrid models.

Still, power equivalency is way better than 'torque equivalency' system VAG is experimenting with. Audi models now have severely inflated equivalency model numbers e.g. the Q3 30TFSI (actually a 140hp 1.4T) A4 40TFSI (190hp 2.0T) A6 45TFSI (250hp 2.0T) and A8 50TFSI (300hp 3.0SC). These cars don't even really have the torque the model numbers suggest. I call this false advertising since consumers are cheated to believing they are buying something much much better. The less knowledgeable common folks will think they are buying an A4 with a V8 when it is merely a 2.0 I4T. And this is extending to other VAG models as well. At least BMW underrate all their equivalency values. The 330i will smoke the A4 45TFSI any day, and the 340i is very comparable to a real V8.
Yet, a lot of people buy into all these BS because they think some extremely sophisticated German engineering is going on under the hood (for christ sake it's an iron block carried over from the 90s) , but complain Lexus overrate their hybrids.

ssun30

Still, power equivalency is way better than 'torque equivalency' system VAG is experimenting with. Audi models now have severely inflated equivalency model numbers e.g. the Q3 30TFSI (actually a 140hp 1.4T) A4 40TFSI (190hp 2.0T) A6 45TFSI and A8 50TFSI (300hp 3.0SC). These cars don't even really have the torque the model numbers suggest. I call this false advertising since consumers are cheated to believing they are buying something much much better. The less knowledgeable common folks will think they are buying an A4 with a V8 when it is merely a 2.0 I4T. At least BMW underrate all their equivalency values. The 330i will smoke the A4 45TFSI.
Yet, a lot of people buy into all these BS because they think some extremely sophisticated German engineering is going on under the hood (for christ sake it's an iron block carried over from the 90s) , but complain Lexus overrate their hybrids.

Yes, I was about to mention the new Audi system but agree it's so ridiculous and absurd that I preferred not to. You expressed it much better than I could've.

telithos

Thank you for the information on the Powertrains. I understand what they’re going for on the naming (yes, the naming on CT200h *did* bother me a little). As a software developer, model names that describe what’s actually under the hood make more sense to me than their power equivalent. It’s just preference, I suppose. The naming convention could certainly be much worse.

I’m trying to get an idea how the hybrid system in the ux250h will compare to the one in my RAV4 hybrid. The RAV4 is certainly heavier than the UX250H will be. Basically, I’m hoping the UX will be less floaty with similar acceleration and a much nicer interior. It certainly sounds that way this point, though only time and a test drive once they’re available will tell.

Since C-HR is sister car I can tell you that it handles a lot better than Rav4... so UX should handle really good. It is very tight car that can handle big pot holes without problems.

I think speed will be around the same with UX faster at low speeds while Rav4 faster at higher speeds. But I expect UX to spend a lot less fuel.

spwolf

Since C-HR is sister car I can tell you that it handles a lot better than Rav4... so UX should handle really good. It is very tight car that can handle big pot holes without problems.

I think speed will be around the same with UX faster at low speeds while Rav4 faster at higher speeds. But I expect UX to spend a lot less fuel.

That's good know. My biggest complaint with the RAV4 hybrid is that it handles like crap. You feel every bit of that 4000lbs curb weight and high center of gravity when you make a turn or even some slight side to side motion to avoid something on the road. It's not confidence-inspiring. I am really curious to see what the UX ends up weighing in with the hybrid system, as that will have a big impact on how it drives.

Also, keep in mind that with Lexus nomenclature, we've had h, L, d, t, F and probably some others I'm missing. Approximations based on total power output really simplify things, especially as all models become turbocharged, and then we even move to turbocharged hybrid powertrains.

Imagine:

LS 350ht L F Sport

Oi.

ssun30

Still, power equivalency is way better than 'torque equivalency' system VAG is experimenting with. Audi models now have severely inflated equivalency model numbers e.g. the Q3 30TFSI (actually a 140hp 1.4T) A4 40TFSI (190hp 2.0T) A6 45TFSI (250hp 2.0T) and A8 50TFSI (300hp 3.0SC). These cars don't even really have the torque the model numbers suggest. I call this false advertising since consumers are cheated to believing they are buying something much much better. The less knowledgeable common folks will think they are buying an A4 with a V8 when it is merely a 2.0 I4T. And this is extending to other VAG models as well. At least BMW underrate all their equivalency values. The 330i will smoke the A4 45TFSI any day, and the 340i is very comparable to a real V8.
Yet, a lot of people buy into all these BS because they think some extremely sophisticated German engineering is going on under the hood (for christ sake it's an iron block carried over from the 90s) , but complain Lexus overrate their hybrids.

You may have some misunderstanding about the Audi TFSI designation system. It is a weird system but it has nothing to do with displacement nor torque. It is an artificial calculation inversely related to 0-100Km/h acceleration speed. That’s why the former A6 had both 30FSI(2.5 NA V6) and 40 TFSI (2.0 Turbo L4. This also explains why different models with exact same engine have different designations sometimes. But yea, VW is using a torque related designation right now.

Joaquin Ruhi

Yes, I was about to mention the new Audi system but agree it's so ridiculous and absurd that I preferred not to. You expressed it much better than I could've.

You can refer to my latest post. The Audi TFSI uses an acceleration speed related calculation to determine the number. But still, extremely strange and misleading.