Lexus Enthusiast Live at the 2018 Detroit Auto Show

mikeavelli

If Mercedes can make the G Wagon and GLS which are BOF and Unibody sell and work together, so can Lexus. The G Wagon has cult status and I feel the LX is there too. Lexus would always be able to sell the LX, some people just want the image of an old school BOF vehicle.

I do not think G and GLS analogy with Lexus LX and 'LA' fit. The G is more a luxury version of the Toyota Land Cruiser 70, and is sold for its appearance and its off-road image, that for its true capability. The new G Wagon gets independent front suspension, I would not be surprised if in ten years it would get independent rear suspension and electric motor. As for the LX, it is more a luxury version of the Land Cruiser, which still remains a true functional off-roader, used by wealthy in "third world" countries (don't like the expression much). The LC200 is not available as pick-up, thus a unibody Land Cruiser with fully independent suspension is not an impossibility, and would be just a capable and durable. It is mostly the engineering of the Land Cruiser that makes it so much better than the competition, rather than the concept (body on frame vs unibody, solid axle vs independant, manual/mechanic vs automatic/electric/electronic, ...). I just think a Crossover from Lexus is a higher priority. In my thinking, a Lexus version of the LC70 would be a better and more unique proposition, even though just as pointless as the G Wagon, which unless the (now discontinued?) Professional version is good at nothing.

Levi

I do not think G and GLS analogy with Lexus LX and 'LA' fit. The G is more a luxury version of the Toyota Land Cruiser 70, and is sold for its appearance and its off-road image, that for its true capability. The new G Wagon gets independent front suspension, I would not be surprised if in ten years it would get independent rear suspension and electric motor. As for the LX, it is more a luxury version of the Land Cruiser, which still remains a true functional off-roader, used by wealthy in "third world" countries (don't like the expression much). The LC200 is not available as pick-up, thus a unibody Land Cruiser with fully independent suspension is not an impossibility, and would be just a capable and durable. It is mostly the engineering of the Land Cruiser that makes it so much better than the competition, rather than the concept (body on frame vs unibody, solid axle vs independant, manual/mechanic vs automatic/electric/electronic, ...). I just think a Crossover from Lexus is a higher priority. In my thinking, a Lexus version of the LC70 would be a better and more unique proposition, even though just as pointless as the G Wagon, which unless the (now discontinued?) Professional version is good at nothing.

I think you might be taking it too literally. :) My point is there is room for people that want a real old school image BOF like the G-Wagon and LX and for those that want a new school image vehicle like a car based suv flagship. I know many G63 owners (more than the 550) and they don't give a crap about its off road capability. To them its cool and hip and makes them stand out from the crowd since its not that popular (since its so expensive for one lol). The LX kind of has that same flavor here, old school, hip, stands out from the crowd in the USA. I don't mean to say the G63 and LX are head on competitors exactly.

Note Mercedes-Benz also sells a G63, G65 AMG and a GLS 63 AMG aimed at different buyers. A niche market but it makes AMG cool, Mercedes-Benz cool and desirable to people.

Levi

I do not think G and GLS analogy with Lexus LX and 'LA' fit. The G is more a luxury version of the Toyota Land Cruiser 70, and is sold for its appearance and its off-road image, that for its true capability. The new G Wagon gets independent front suspension, I would not be surprised if in ten years it would get independent rear suspension and electric motor. As for the LX, it is more a luxury version of the Land Cruiser, which still remains a true functional off-roader, used by wealthy in "third world" countries (don't like the expression much). The LC200 is not available as pick-up, thus a unibody Land Cruiser with fully independent suspension is not an impossibility, and would be just a capable and durable. It is mostly the engineering of the Land Cruiser that makes it so much better than the competition, rather than the concept (body on frame vs unibody, solid axle vs independant, manual/mechanic vs automatic/electric/electronic, ...). I just think a Crossover from Lexus is a higher priority. In my thinking, a Lexus version of the LC70 would be a better and more unique proposition, even though just as pointless as the G Wagon, which unless the (now discontinued?) Professional version is good at nothing.

I think you might be taking it too literally. :) My point is there is room for people that want a real old school image BOF like the G-Wagon and LX and for those that want a new school image vehicle like a car based suv flagship. I know many G63 owners (more than the 550) and they don't give a crap about its off road capability. To them its cool and hip and makes them stand out from the crowd since its not that popular (since its so expensive for one lol). The LX kind of has that same flavor here, old school, hip, stands out from the crowd in the USA. I don't mean to say the G63 and LX are head on competitors exactly.

Note Mercedes-Benz also sells a G63, G65 AMG and a GLS 63 AMG aimed at different buyers. A niche market but it makes AMG cool, Mercedes-Benz cool and desirable to people.

Levi

Both these cars could be the same ones, even if produced in different regions, and also have different names, something that is not unusual at Toyota.

I do not believe the NA versions (Tacoma/4Runner) are significantly less durable than versions (Hilux/Fortuner), or that it would cost too much to make the Hilux/Fortuner NA viable. Toyota's BOF lineup is from a time the market was not SUV/CUV crazy, now it also has to adapt. The main issue seems to come for the development and life-cycle. the BOF car Sequoia and Land Cruiser are really very old. But Toyota is not as small as Mitsubishi with their old, yet very well built and still competitive Pajero.

At this point I think we should move this part of the discussion to the BOF thread: https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/lets-talk-bof.4076/

Your assumption that Tacoma and Hilux can merge into one platform is not true. In the U.S., majority of the road freight is transported by semis, and pick-up trucks are mostly for hauling divisible cargo by individuals and small businesses. In fact a lot of people use them for recreational use. Also, crew comfort and safety are very important for american buyers. In the rest of the world, pick-up trucks are mostly used for commercial cargo transport, and safety regulations aren't as strict. Light trucks are much more maneuverable than semis in tight cities of Asia and muddy roads of Africa. Due to the scarcity of heavy-duty transport, pick-up trucks are overloaded on a regular basis.

As a result:
NA-spec pick-up trucks are much more front-heavy because of extra crew protection, space, and amenities. The payload capacity is heavily underrated.
RotW pick-up trucks have less weight in the front, but much higher payload capacity for the same size and power.

The Tacoma is a slightly larger vehicle than the Hilux. But the Tacoma is only rated for 1600 lbs of payload while the Hilux has 2,000-2,500 without any modifications. To get that kind of payload you would have to go for a F-150 with the payload package that strengthens the rear axle, but that's a much bigger and more powerful truck than the Hilux. Of course the Hilux gets a very torquey turbo-diesel (seriously, americans deserve these diesels!) that helps a lot, but most of that impressive capacity comes from a very strong rear, which is not practical for the U.S.

When designing pick-up trucks, engineers always tune the chassis to have optimal drivability when the truck is fully loaded. Doing so requires the rear suspension to be much firmer than the front so the ride frequency could match. The brake bias needs to be towards the rear so the truck won't nosedive and lose traction under heavy braking (which is why Tacoma's puny rear drum brakes are a big problem). But such a set-up is both terribly uncomfortable and unsafe. When the truck is empty, it will have a tendency to oversteer and roll-over (remember the infamous Hilux moose test?) because the front wheels have too much grip compared to the rear. Of course the issue could be solved by stability control, but it should only be used in an emergency and there is no replacement for a stable chassis. Ford paid dearly for the notorious Expedition roll-overs. As a result, american manufacturers nowadays are willing to sacrifice capacity for extra safety and comfort. That's why they build the trucks to be heavier in the front and less stiff in the rear.

Levi

Both these cars could be the same ones, even if produced in different regions, and also have different names, something that is not unusual at Toyota.

I do not believe the NA versions (Tacoma/4Runner) are significantly less durable than versions (Hilux/Fortuner), or that it would cost too much to make the Hilux/Fortuner NA viable. Toyota's BOF lineup is from a time the market was not SUV/CUV crazy, now it also has to adapt. The main issue seems to come for the development and life-cycle. the BOF car Sequoia and Land Cruiser are really very old. But Toyota is not as small as Mitsubishi with their old, yet very well built and still competitive Pajero.

At this point I think we should move this part of the discussion to the BOF thread: https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/lets-talk-bof.4076/

Your assumption that Tacoma and Hilux can merge into one platform is not true. In the U.S., majority of the road freight is transported by semis, and pick-up trucks are mostly for hauling divisible cargo by individuals and small businesses. In fact a lot of people use them for recreational use. Also, crew comfort and safety are very important for american buyers. In the rest of the world, pick-up trucks are mostly used for commercial cargo transport, and safety regulations aren't as strict. Light trucks are much more maneuverable than semis in tight cities of Asia and muddy roads of Africa. Due to the scarcity of heavy-duty transport, pick-up trucks are overloaded on a regular basis.

As a result:
NA-spec pick-up trucks are much more front-heavy because of extra crew protection, space, and amenities. The payload capacity is heavily underrated.
RotW pick-up trucks have less weight in the front, but much higher payload capacity for the same size and power.

The Tacoma is a slightly larger vehicle than the Hilux. But the Tacoma is only rated for 1600 lbs of payload while the Hilux has 2,000-2,500 without any modifications. To get that kind of payload you would have to go for a F-150 with the payload package that strengthens the rear axle, but that's a much bigger and more powerful truck than the Hilux. Of course the Hilux gets a very torquey turbo-diesel (seriously, americans deserve these diesels!) that helps a lot, but most of that impressive capacity comes from a very strong rear, which is not practical for the U.S.

When designing pick-up trucks, engineers always tune the chassis to have optimal drivability when the truck is fully loaded. Doing so requires the rear suspension to be much firmer than the front so the ride frequency could match. The brake bias needs to be towards the rear so the truck won't nosedive and lose traction under heavy braking (which is why Tacoma's puny rear drum brakes are a big problem). But such a set-up is both terribly uncomfortable and unsafe. When the truck is empty, it will have a tendency to oversteer and roll-over (remember the infamous Hilux moose test?) because the front wheels have too much grip compared to the rear. Of course the issue could be solved by stability control, but it should only be used in an emergency and there is no replacement for a stable chassis. Ford paid dearly for the notorious Expedition roll-overs. As a result, american manufacturers nowadays are willing to sacrifice capacity for extra safety and comfort. That's why they build the trucks to be heavier in the front and less stiff in the rear.

Joaquin Ruhi

At this point, my prediction is that the production LF-1 Limitless will break with the L? pattern and be badged with the still-live trademark (last time I looked) TX prefix, and call it a "Touring Crossover".

Forget that. I just looked in on the U.S. Trademark Electronic Search System, and it turns out that TX had been dead as a Toyota/Lexus trademark since 16 June 2017. Thus, TX joins JX and VX as trademarks once considered for Lexus crossover/SUV model lines but subsequently abandoned.

Joaquin Ruhi

At this point, my prediction is that the production LF-1 Limitless will break with the L? pattern and be badged with the still-live trademark (last time I looked) TX prefix, and call it a "Touring Crossover".

Forget that. I just looked in on the U.S. Trademark Electronic Search System, and it turns out that TX had been dead as a Toyota/Lexus trademark since 16 June 2017. Thus, TX joins JX and VX as trademarks once considered for Lexus crossover/SUV model lines but subsequently abandoned.

Video: Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover Concept Sneak Peek

The new concept will debut tomorrow at the Detroit Auto Show.

View the original article post

Video: Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover Concept Sneak Peek

The new concept will debut tomorrow at the Detroit Auto Show.

View the original article post

Surely it will be above and beyond more on the lines of a Bently Bentag0 - the RX range is more than adequate against the X5 etc. There is also the new big BMW to take on the seven series cross over/suv. The LS needs to add this style to its range big saloons are waning in popularity.

Hoping it will really be something special to take on the top models of the world above the Cayenne etc. The name indicates something bold and very special and Toyota need to do this with Lexus put it right up there with the very best. I repeat that i hope the wheel will keep the Lexus L insignia in an upright position at all times al la Rolls Royce surely fairly simple to do but a unique detail. Japan needs to match the best in the world and have the ability to do it.

Exciting prospect to look forward to!

Surely it will be above and beyond more on the lines of a Bently Bentag0 - the RX range is more than adequate against the X5 etc. There is also the new big BMW to take on the seven series cross over/suv. The LS needs to add this style to its range big saloons are waning in popularity.

Hoping it will really be something special to take on the top models of the world above the Cayenne etc. The name indicates something bold and very special and Toyota need to do this with Lexus put it right up there with the very best. I repeat that i hope the wheel will keep the Lexus L insignia in an upright position at all times al la Rolls Royce surely fairly simple to do but a unique detail. Japan needs to match the best in the world and have the ability to do it.

Exciting prospect to look forward to!

Honestly
I don't know what to say from those shots
I will save my final opinion until tomorrow

Honestly
I don't know what to say from those shots
I will save my final opinion until tomorrow

Black L badge in the rear. Non-hybrid power train perhaps? 4.0 twin turbo V-8 introduction or LS500 engine, I'm guessing.

Black L badge in the rear. Non-hybrid power train perhaps? 4.0 twin turbo V-8 introduction or LS500 engine, I'm guessing.

Demetrius

Black L badge in the rear. Non-hybrid power train perhaps? 4.0 twin turbo V-8 introduction or LS500 engine, I'm guessing.

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

Demetrius

Black L badge in the rear. Non-hybrid power train perhaps? 4.0 twin turbo V-8 introduction or LS500 engine, I'm guessing.

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

Very similar to Mitsubishi GT Concept





Let's wait and see

Very similar to Mitsubishi GT Concept





Let's wait and see

OlFius

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

You're right. I had to look closely to see that. Also suffer from R/G/B color deficiency lol

OlFius

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

You're right. I had to look closely to see that. Also suffer from R/G/B color deficiency lol

It´ll be the next 2020 NX

It´ll be the next 2020 NX

Old trend returning:

Old trend returning:

OlFius

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

It is regular badge, but of course they will have both versions available anyway.

OlFius

Hmm, I see a very dark blue/purple color, not black. Hybrid/electric...

It is regular badge, but of course they will have both versions available anyway.

That rear view seem very coupe-ish...

That rear view seem very coupe-ish...

Excited for tomorrow morning.