New Lexus ES Prototype Spotted in California

RAL

Agreed ... the one without exhaust tips could be a hybrid, but how do we know the other one is an F-Sport? (The new non-F-Sport LS has a mesh grille.)

and the CT also

I agree with RAL. How can anyone really be sure these are ES and ES F-Sport trims specifically? What if these are regular and hybrid trims?

Also this in no way signals the end of the GS. A lot of wild speculation and assumptions in this thread IMHO. Also that Motor1 article is atrocious. According to them the ES will "shrink significantly"? What have they been smoking or drinking?

CIF

I agree with RAL. How can anyone really be sure these are ES and ES F-Sport trims specifically? What if these are regular and hybrid trims?

Also this in no way signals the end of the GS. A lot of wild speculation and assumptions in this thread IMHO. Also that Motor1 article is atrocious. According to them the ES will "shrink significantly"? What have they been smoking or drinking?

They also said the ES bridges the gap between the GS and LS ??????! ...

joepac

I dont think so...If you look at the original article, the 3rd picture (profile shot) shows a long front overhang and a very close front door edge to the wheel well suggesting this is FWD.



I think the GS is going bye bye. Sucks. My first lexus was a 1998 GS400. That thing was a beast for its time.

Edit: I saw this though at Top Speed and see the wider gap from the door edge to the wheel well? The GS may live on!

Unfortunately, that picture was what people thought was the next GS but turned out to be the next Toyota Crown - not the model posted in the LE article.

What I am really noticing when analyzing these pictures is that this model is testing with the GS's competitors. It is also probably still a mule, and I can tell the rear end is pretty current GS-like. I feel like Lexus is testing a way to combine the ES and GS, and this model is it (and will be named ES). What a same if true. I think the GS is reputed better for a luxury sports sedan while the ES has been known as the bland, boring Lexus model (which I don't necessarily agree with because they're gorgeous and pretty decent to drive).

DDas

Unfortunately, that picture was what people thought was the next GS but turned out to be the next Toyota Crown - not the model posted in the LE article.

Well that sucks

I think will have Toyota Crown and Lexus LS related, based on RWD. Lexus ES related with the FWD Toyota Avalon or Camry. I think the Lexus GS and Toyota Mark might be cancelled. The Lexus IS might grown in size, be and be more a sports sedan "coupe". Most by SUVs/CUVs these days, so for a sedan to have a USP is to make it sportier. GX might just be replaced by RX-L.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...nes-plan-for-fewer-sedans-more-crossovers-evs

Cadillac plans to replace sedans by fewer models. It is not certain Volvo will replace the S60/V60, because the XC60 simply will be the better seller. They will soon unveil the XC40. A patent has been filed for "S50". It could be something like between the XC40 and XC60, lower, coupeish like the concept they showed. Telsa Model 3 will definitely hurt premium compact sedans such as 3 Series, C Class, A4, IS, Q50 and ATS.

Land Cruiser / LX will have fierce competition from Range Rover, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Maserati, Ferrari and Jeep. While except Jeep and Range Rover all other SUVs are not off-road capable and thus do not target the same customers, there are rivals. While I think the next Land Cruiser / LX will have IRS in addition to IFS, I think it will and has to remain BOF, an exception in this class. The new Patrol looks more like a profound facelift, rather than an all new model. Reliability and off-road capability of the Land Cruiser / LX is its main selling point.

The Prado / GX could be replaced worldwide by the Fortuner, which is alot better than the previous one, and is much more SUV than 4x4. With the transition to BEVs, eventually RexEVs, companies have to cut down lowest selling models and body types. With LC, I find the RC redundant in Lexus' lineup. A convertible based on the LC makes more sense than in the RC, also because the RC is approaching its half-life cycle.

Anyway BEVs are the future, better start focusing on those. The only car needing to retain an ICE is the Land Cruiser, until batteries permit 1500 km range.

I think Lexus is going the same strategy as the Germans :

Have a functional volume seller daily driver , the ES to tackle the 4 door midsize sedan market and go against the E class and FWD A6 and nonsport 5 series. Have a half step higher, much sportier and much more stylish, more expensive GS to act as the midsize 4 door Grancoupe to tackle the CLS/A7/6 series GC market.


So good news for everyone : Lexus gets to continue to rule the volume luxury midsize business in the upgraded ES and now gets a big boost to its image and profit margin in a lower selling but more expensive , much more stylish 4 door coupe GS -- which driving enthusiasts like us would love to own.

Levi

I think will have Toyota Crown and Lexus LS related, based on RWD. Lexus ES related with the FWD Toyota Avalon or Camry. I think the Lexus GS and Toyota Mark might be cancelled. The Lexus IS might grown in size, be and be more a sports sedan "coupe". Most by SUVs/CUVs these days, so for a sedan to have a USP is to make it sportier. GX might just be replaced by RX-L.

The first part of your post describes is the most exciting evolution in automotive history. The rise of CUVs doesn't mean the end of sedans, it only means that all the soccer moms and such are moving to CUVs, sedans can return to the good ol days as sednas. They can be more focused and purposely designed. Thats why the new LS is a full size GT sedan targeting enthusiast rather than just trying to be a luxury cruiser. The ES should and can be a mid size FWD fastback GT and the IS could remain a compact sport sedan. Lexus should not abandon the mid size range but rather build an all new car to consolidate the M5/M6 segment.

yosafbridge

I think Lexus is going the same strategy as the Germans :

Have a functional volume seller daily driver , the ES to tackle the 4 door midsize sedan market and go against the E class and FWD A6 and nonsport 5 series. Have a half step higher, much sportier and much more stylish, more expensive GS to act as the midsize 4 door Grancoupe to tackle the CLS/A7/6 series GC market.


So good news for everyone : Lexus gets to continue to rule the volume luxury midsize business in the upgraded ES and now gets a big boost to its image and profit margin in a lower selling but more expensive , much more stylish 4 door coupe GS -- which driving enthusiasts like us would love to own.

I would love the GS to become a true 4 door coupe!

I also wonder will AWD be offered for the first time.

mikeavelli

I also wonder will AWD be offered for the first time.

I wonder what kind of PU we'll find inside. NA 2.4 and 3.5 are not going to cut it anywhere else but in US, Russia and UAE. There has to be a 4cyl Turbo in it, somehow they have to make it work but I doubt we will see V6TT. Most likely EU and JP will just get the four banger turbo and that's it.

CIF

I agree with RAL. How can anyone really be sure these are ES and ES F-Sport trims specifically? What if these are regular and hybrid trims?

Also this in no way signals the end of the GS. A lot of wild speculation and assumptions in this thread IMHO. Also that Motor1 article is atrocious. According to them the ES will "shrink significantly"? What have they been smoking or drinking?

RAL

Agreed ... the one without exhaust tips could be a hybrid, but how do we know the other one is an F-Sport? (The new non-F-Sport LS and LC have a mesh grille.)

bogglo

and the CT also

If you look closely at the '18 LS and '18 CT grilles, the F Sport versions have the traditional "L" shapes like the alleged F Sport version of the ES. The non-F Sport version of the ES like the LS, CT, IS, etc which have a honeycomb, waterfall-style, or horizontal slat design as the standard grills.

So based on what we see today in production, my money is on that "ES" model being an "F Sport"... but yes, all speculation still at this time...

CIF

I agree with RAL. How can anyone really be sure these are ES and ES F-Sport trims specifically? What if these are regular and hybrid trims?

Also this in no way signals the end of the GS. A lot of wild speculation and assumptions in this thread IMHO. Also that Motor1 article is atrocious. According to them the ES will "shrink significantly"? What have they been smoking or drinking?

LOL! I'm with you, CIF. Can't let my worries of the loss of the GS get in the way of just considering what the ES plan might be

Sharp eyes corradoMR2 ... I think you are right. Hopefully we are looking at an F-Sport ES ... at long last!!! It is hard to imagine though an ES that is truly fun to drive. But one can hope!
I'm still hoping for a new generation GS! But if the GS is discontinued and the ES is upgraded to partially fill the void with a substantially higher price ... I wonder how many current ES buyers will be willing to pay the premium. Many might revert to the next generation Avalon. Will Lexus really raise the stakes on their cash cow??? I would think not. But with this new trend away from sedans ... who knows what is in store.

Cancelling the GS ... Maybe so ... maybe not. I wonder when we will finally know ???

RAL

Sharp eyes corradoMR2 ... I think you are right. Hopefully we are looking at an F-Sport ES ... at long last!!! It is hard to imagine though an ES that is truly fun to drive. But one can hope!
I'm still hoping for a new generation GS! But if the GS is discontinued and the ES is upgraded to partially fill the void with a substantially higher price ... I wonder how many current ES buyers will be willing to pay the premium. Many might revert to the next generation Avalon. Will Lexus really raise the stakes on their cash cow??? I would think not. But with this new trend away from sedans ... who knows what is in store.

Akio may just have his way ... cancelling the GS. Maybe so ... maybe not. I wonder when we will finally know ???

Not to be cynical, but from the dying sedan market (and poor GS sales contributing to that), the writing is on the wall for the demise of the GS, at least in its current sedan format. I agree with your thought on the possibility of an ES going a little more upscale to also further distinguish it in price and "entry-level" status from the IS but I don't see a major impact if the bump is below 10%. :)

FWD-platform aside, I can't believe I'm actually excited at the prospect of an ES F Sport. I know it's an oxymoron today, but think back at the sporty flair of the Gen2 ES while still being luxurious and refined. If Lexus captures that styling and "sporty" essence in the Gen7 ES which was lost in all prior Gens, I may actually have one in my driveway soon enough!

Me too! ... that is, if the GS is cancelled.

RAL

Sharp eyes corradoMR2 ... I think you are right. Hopefully we are looking at an F-Sport ES ... at long last!!! It is hard to imagine though an ES that is truly fun to drive. But one can hope!
I'm still hoping for a new generation GS! But if the GS is discontinued and the ES is upgraded to partially fill the void with a substantially higher price ... I wonder how many current ES buyers will be willing to pay the premium. Many might revert to the next generation Avalon. Will Lexus really raise the stakes on their cash cow??? I would think not. But with this new trend away from sedans ... who knows what is in store.

Akio may just have his way ... cancelling the GS. Maybe so ... maybe not. I wonder when we will finally know ???

this is my hope as well. Lexus knows of our anticipation and I think they are making us wait on purpose. The only thing is that if they drop the GS we (I) will be pissed. I might very well go buy a sport / performance related sedan from some other brand, like Porsche (ouch, expensive) or Merc. Keeping fans in a state of anticipation works when they come through, but it won't work when they disappoint. I cannot see a F-sport ES satisfying me at all.

SO, Lexus, let's give us some news or at least a teaser to calm us and keep us focused in a positive way on the brand. A limited production GS will still make money

corradoMR2

Not to be cynical, but from the dying sedan market (and poor GS sales contributing to that), the writing is on the wall for the demise of the GS, at least in its current sedan format. I agree with your thought on the possibility of an ES going a little more upscale to also further distinguish it in price and "entry-level" status from the IS but I don't see a major impact if the bump is below 10%. :)

FWD-platform aside, I can't believe I'm actually excited at the prospect of an ES F Sport. I know it's an oxymoron today, but think back at the sporty flair of the Gen2 ES while still being luxurious and refined. If Lexus captures that styling and "sporty" essence in the Gen7 ES which was lost in all prior Gens, I may actually have one in my driveway soon enough!

perhaps a Gen 7 ES F-sport will be attractive, but it really must do the job in spades. I fantasize about a GS F, and I cannot see a ES F.

My feelings exactly PeterF! ... I doubt an ES F-Sport at a 10% premium ... will "do the job in spades" as you say. The styling I'm trying to envision, despite the camouflage, is not exactly tripping my trigger in GS terms. I'm just hoping this new styling is going to wow me in ES terms. There will absolutely need to be a significant interior upgrade. The ES moniker alone will take a bit of getting use to for GS loyalists.

Yeah, if an ES F-Sport is meant to placate GS loyalists ... it will have to do the job in spades!!! Or as we southerners say: "It'll have to cut the mustard!"

It's summer time, just my thoughts:
I believe that this new ES will be a direct replacement for the current GS. That's one of the reasons why the ES will be available in Western Europe, next year, for the first time.
But, I also believe that the current GS will get a full makeover, something like the current 'GT' versions of BMW (3 and 5-series), where the GS is something between a regular sedan/SUV/station wagon, pretty imposing cars.
These types of cars are quite popular today here in Western Europe, and knowing that Lexus always keeps an eye on BMW....
But, like I say, it's summer time...

OlFius

It's summer time, just my thoughts:
I believe that this new ES will be a direct replacement for the current GS. That's one of the reasons why the ES will be available in Western Europe, next year, for the first time.
But, I also believe that the current GS will get a full makeover, something like the current 'GT' versions of BMW (3 and 5-series), where the GS is something between a regular sedan/SUV/station wagon, pretty imposing cars.
These types of cars are quite popular today here in Western Europe, and knowing that Lexus always keeps an eye on BMW....
But, like I say, it's summer time...

The sports sedan benchmark will be the Mercedes-AMG GT4. BMW M8 GranCoupe is also a possibility.

The ES was my first Lexus but the GS is truly what made me LOVE Lexus. I hope they understand the difference.

OlFius

It's summer time, just my thoughts:
I believe that this new ES will be a direct replacement for the current GS. That's one of the reasons why the ES will be available in Western Europe, next year, for the first time.
But, I also believe that the current GS will get a full makeover, something like the current 'GT' versions of BMW (3 and 5-series), where the GS is something between a regular sedan/SUV/station wagon, pretty imposing cars.
These types of cars are quite popular today here in Western Europe, and knowing that Lexus always keeps an eye on BMW....
But, like I say, it's summer time...

Fall is coming soon! :) I, for one, would like to hear something about this from Lexus soon. I don't want to do something stupid like go a buy some other brand sport sedan (or track car) when it would be best to wait. I like these ideas, however, because they are telling me to just chill till 2018. I think I'm going to go to the Detroit Auto show

mikeavelli

The ES was my first Lexus but the GS is truly what made me LOVE Lexus. I hope they understand the difference.

I'll second that. I owned a 1999 GS 400; loved that car! Yooo Hoo, Lexus! are you listening?!

Having ES replace the GS while moving GS up to become a proper four-door sports coupe is a good thing. Right now ES and GS are just standing in each other's way. It would suck for those who want an affordable sporty executive sedan (i.e. GS loyalists), but that is just an oxymoron these days. Even BMW realized that and made the 5-sedan drive like a boat.
I just want something to replace the XV40 ES350. Have owned that car for eight years now, but the XV60 proved to be no upgrade. A more powerful hybrid, preferrably a PHEV (in my country we get very lucrative subsidy for PHEVs), will make it a no-brainer for me. It's about time Lexus releases a PHEV, seeing how everybody else have some inferior wannabe hybrids but get all the attention for "25 miles of EV range".

Upon a close inspection of the spy shots, here's my best guess on the ES headlight and tailight shapes:





---

• The rear will have a chrome band connecting the tops of the taillights.
• There is possibly an LED strip at the top of the taillights.
• The triple LED taillights have a "3D" layered effect, much like the LC and LS.
• The headlights have a minimized, integrated DRL swoosh like the LS.
• There is also a notch on the headlight next to the spindle grille.

My very first Lexus was a 1996 ES 300 and I loved that car. I took her to over 400K miles before she got rear-ended. I'm sure if I had her today she'd probably be close to 600K miles. I look forward to the next generation ES. The ES has always outsold the IS and I love the IS line as well. The IS competes directly with the 3 Series so no need to get rid of the IS just expand the IS line to include an IS F and bring the IS 300h to North America. Lexus should expand the ES line to include a hardtop coupe based on the Toyota Solara. Lexus doesn't really need to market the ES, it sells well on it's own.

ES 350
ES 300h
ES 350 C
ES 300h C

F sport all variants as well...

Trexus

My very first Lexus was a 1996 ES 300 and I loved that car. I took her to over 400K miles before she got rear-ended. I'm sure if I had her today she'd probably be close to 600K miles. I look forward to the next generation ES. The ES has always outsold the IS and I love the IS line as well. The IS competes directly with the 3 Series so no need to get rid of the IS just expand the IS line to include an IS F and bring the IS 300h to North America. Lexus should expand the ES line to include a hardtop coupe based on the Toyota Solara. Lexus doesn't really need to market the ES, it sells well on it's own.

ES 350
ES 300h
ES 350 C
ES 300h C

F sport all variants as well...

The solara. I love that car still got my 1999 solara sle chilling in the garage in chicago. I think the solara was more of a Avalon coupe. the interior was always better than a Camry IMO. but I don't see the es getting a coupe. the 300h might end up in the US now since lexus is trying to upgrade their line up and distance it from toyota

supra93

I take back my earlier comment. It probably is the ES seeing how they also included the current ES in the test group. This is a sad day in Lexus history. Looks like Akio got want he wanted.

I'm not sure refreshing one of the models that pays the bills for sexy low-volume cars like the RC, LC, and LFA is quite what I'd call "a sad day in Lexus history". It's literally the only sedan they make that's selling in the middle of the current SUV/CUV craze.

Ian Schmidt

I'm not sure refreshing one of the models that pays the bills for sexy low-volume cars like the RC, LC, and LFA is quite what I'd call "a sad day in Lexus history". It's literally the only sedan they make that's selling in the middle of the current SUV/CUV craze.

I'm referring to the rumors of the GS cancellation. I have no issue with the ES itself.