Next-Generation Lexus GS F Under Development


Toyota has announced that the brand’s Gazoo Racing division will be taking an active role in the development of Lexus F vehicles, including the next-generation GS F — from Car & Driver:

[Gazoo president Shigeki] Tomayama said that GR is already involved with developing a new Lexus GS F. What’s unclear is whether he’s referring to an F variant of a next-generation GS or merely an updated version of the current GS F. Considering recent rumors that the GS will not live on to see another generation, we tend to lean toward the latter.

As with the Supra, Tomayama explained, rear-end grip is an important aspect of the new GS F’s dynamics. He said that the new car needs to be lighter to achieve the playful feel GR is aiming for.

Motor Trend was apparently in the same discussion with Tomayama:

Gazoo is now involved in tuning the Lexus “F” models, specifically the next-generation GS-F.

“We are looking at what kind of target audience the car has, what tone and manner, how much understeer and oversteer balance,”Tomoyama said. “The cars have to run faster, and that tuning is already (in place). Even within Lexus, we may have different models which have different tuning.”

This story is significant in a number of ways, but the most important angle is that the GS F will be getting a next-generation at all — rumors of the mid-size sedan being cancelled have been rampant in the past few months, and the idea of a new GS F is a welcome shift in the narrative.

(The above image is a rendering from Japanese magazine Best Car. Hat tip to LXE member Supra93 for finding these stories.)

Lexus GS F: First Generation
Comments
The GS going 4door coupe was necessary around the time the 4GS was released in 2012 so it is a very welcome change if this is true even though they would be 6-7 years late.
The GS going 4door coupe was necessary around the time the 4GS was released in 2012 so it is a very welcome change if this is true even though they would be 6-7 years late.
zeusus
The GS going 4door coupe was necessary around the time the 4GS was released in 2012 so it is a very welcome change if this is true even though they would be 6-7 years late.
I have to figure the 4GS was Lexus' attempt to go head-to-head with the 5-series and E-Class, and it failed. Lexus realized their best hope in midsize was the ES, and moving the GS into CLS/A7 territory is about the only thing that can save the model.

I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.

Edited for clarity.
zeusus
The GS going 4door coupe was necessary around the time the 4GS was released in 2012 so it is a very welcome change if this is true even though they would be 6-7 years late.
I have to figure the 4GS was Lexus' attempt to go head-to-head with the 5-series and E-Class, and it failed. Lexus realized their best hope in midsize was the ES, and moving the GS into CLS/A7 territory is about the only thing that can save the model.

I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.

Edited for clarity.
  • CIF
    CIF
  • August 23, 2017
The 4GS is a great car for many reasons. Sadly, I feel that personally they messed up the mid-cycle refresh styling-wise. Even so, pre-refresh it sold ok but not in big numbers. I also feel Toyota never put enough effort at the dealer level to push the GS over the ES. The ES basically sells itself. Toyota has a unique situation with the ES and GS, so that's why I feel for it to sell well, regardless of how the model looks or is engineered, heavy pressure and effort by Toyota must be placed upon dealers to specifically push the GS.
  • CIF
    CIF
  • August 23, 2017
The 4GS is a great car for many reasons. Sadly, I feel that personally they messed up the mid-cycle refresh styling-wise. Even so, pre-refresh it sold ok but not in big numbers. I also feel Toyota never put enough effort at the dealer level to push the GS over the ES. The ES basically sells itself. Toyota has a unique situation with the ES and GS, so that's why I feel for it to sell well, regardless of how the model looks or is engineered, heavy pressure and effort by Toyota must be placed upon dealers to specifically push the GS.
krew
I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.
Was the grill holding the car back from more appeal in the marketplace? When the pictures of the car was released, you just couldn't get away from seeing this on any forum thread:
krew
I remember being excited about the 4GS despite its half-formed spindle grille -- wish it could have performed better in the market.
Was the grill holding the car back from more appeal in the marketplace? When the pictures of the car was released, you just couldn't get away from seeing this on any forum thread:
i don't understand why people care so much about the ES becoming the sports sedan of the segment now, look at how much the new camry evolved, 'ES' is just a nameplate, yes it has been the boring granny car for years but look how the RX has transformed for its 4th generation. it seems clear that the ES will be taking the GS's usual 4 door sedan role by looking at the spy shots alongside the Audi A6 & Mercedes E Class, the GS's competitors now. what is going to suck is that if the ES does not have the F-Sport option or the TTV6 for the ES350 with power, lexus will not be able to keep the loyal GS buyers and possibly move the people with german cars over. i also believe they should make a 4 door coupe version of the RC with the power from the TTV6 and maybe an F version, but hey that's just my opinion
i don't understand why people care so much about the ES becoming the sports sedan of the segment now, look at how much the new camry evolved, 'ES' is just a nameplate, yes it has been the boring granny car for years but look how the RX has transformed for its 4th generation. it seems clear that the ES will be taking the GS's usual 4 door sedan role by looking at the spy shots alongside the Audi A6 & Mercedes E Class, the GS's competitors now. what is going to suck is that if the ES does not have the F-Sport option or the TTV6 for the ES350 with power, lexus will not be able to keep the loyal GS buyers and possibly move the people with german cars over. i also believe they should make a 4 door coupe version of the RC with the power from the TTV6 and maybe an F version, but hey that's just my opinion
joepac
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/lexus/lexus-gs/

2017 was abysmal. 2014 to 2016 were not that great (not that well?) lol

Compare to one of its competitors the BMW 5 series

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-5-series/

Outsold the GS by 2-3x as much units sold. And continues to sell strong.

I mean it doesn't mean much to us Lexus folk but Lexus is a business and it can't waste money in R&D on a new chassis, powertrain etc. just to sell 1300 units per month and remain profitable.

The ES is still going to be FWD. Look at that profile pic in the article about the ES in camo. The front overhang and the back of the front fender give it away. They will not make the ES a RWD car... Maybe pull an Acura/Audi and make it FWD based AWD but still with a horizontally opposed engine and FWD dimensions-No thanks.

I hope the GS does become more like a A7, 6 Series level car but the ES based GS (if that really happens) may sell well among the AARP crowd but it will be no enthusiast car. The IS and GS are what Lexus has left for sports sedans. Hopefully the new Dynamic Force engines and new designs by 2019/2020 will truly put them on top beyond reliability and practicality.
What confuses me is the GS did meet sales goals here and according to Lexus is the best selling worldwide. I guess that still wasn't enough.
joepac
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/lexus/lexus-gs/

2017 was abysmal. 2014 to 2016 were not that great (not that well?) lol

Compare to one of its competitors the BMW 5 series

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-5-series/

Outsold the GS by 2-3x as much units sold. And continues to sell strong.

I mean it doesn't mean much to us Lexus folk but Lexus is a business and it can't waste money in R&D on a new chassis, powertrain etc. just to sell 1300 units per month and remain profitable.

The ES is still going to be FWD. Look at that profile pic in the article about the ES in camo. The front overhang and the back of the front fender give it away. They will not make the ES a RWD car... Maybe pull an Acura/Audi and make it FWD based AWD but still with a horizontally opposed engine and FWD dimensions-No thanks.

I hope the GS does become more like a A7, 6 Series level car but the ES based GS (if that really happens) may sell well among the AARP crowd but it will be no enthusiast car. The IS and GS are what Lexus has left for sports sedans. Hopefully the new Dynamic Force engines and new designs by 2019/2020 will truly put them on top beyond reliability and practicality.
What confuses me is the GS did meet sales goals here and according to Lexus is the best selling worldwide. I guess that still wasn't enough.
Wanted to start this post for a separate thought. Now the IS/ES strategy has been very successful. It allowed Lexus to fully make the IS sporty and the ES lean strongly toward a totally different market more concerned with comfort.

By getting rid of this, the IS might have to move more to the middle to appease everyone and then the ES moves more to the middle to appease everyone.
Wanted to start this post for a separate thought. Now the IS/ES strategy has been very successful. It allowed Lexus to fully make the IS sporty and the ES lean strongly toward a totally different market more concerned with comfort.

By getting rid of this, the IS might have to move more to the middle to appease everyone and then the ES moves more to the middle to appease everyone.
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
maiaramdan
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The thing for me is, if this is the route the ES takes, they need much more than just a 300h and 350. Yes the base A6 is a FWD, CVT equipped, 4 cylinder car. Well they offer the amazing S6 and overseas the RS6. That provides a big halo for those base cars.

The new E class has tons of different engine choices with the madman E63 S launched.

BMW just launched the M5 which looks amazing on paper. Even without going that far, the M550 is a 0-60 in UNDER 4 SECONDS car!

Will Lexus upgrade the F-Sport program to finally add more power and not just cosmetic, handling changes? Or more of the same?
maiaramdan
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The thing for me is, if this is the route the ES takes, they need much more than just a 300h and 350. Yes the base A6 is a FWD, CVT equipped, 4 cylinder car. Well they offer the amazing S6 and overseas the RS6. That provides a big halo for those base cars.

The new E class has tons of different engine choices with the madman E63 S launched.

BMW just launched the M5 which looks amazing on paper. Even without going that far, the M550 is a 0-60 in UNDER 4 SECONDS car!

Will Lexus upgrade the F-Sport program to finally add more power and not just cosmetic, handling changes? Or more of the same?
maiaramdan
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The ES was not testing with the BMW 5. so I still have faith The GS would still compete in the same category it is now.

The Camry was really updated with the new 2018 model. So, we can only expect the Avalon to take it up a notch. If you were to distance Lexus(ES) from Toyota(Avalon, Camry) what car would you benchmark?

Note:
the Audi and Merc that was spotted in that picture are the entry level model.
maiaramdan
Let's calm down and think for a while what really Lexus want from this new strategy
*IS / RC / NX : as the small lux to go with there rivals
*ES / RX : to be a mid lux as we saw A6 & E accompanied with the next ES but then the ES will take the A6 formula of AWD based on FWD architecture
*LS / LC / LX : fullsize flagships
-----------------------------------------------
*the global CT accompanied with the UX to take the sub small lux aiming the A / GLA, A3 / Q3 etc.,
-----------------------------------------------
Now where will be the GS / GX ???
The ES was not testing with the BMW 5. so I still have faith The GS would still compete in the same category it is now.

The Camry was really updated with the new 2018 model. So, we can only expect the Avalon to take it up a notch. If you were to distance Lexus(ES) from Toyota(Avalon, Camry) what car would you benchmark?

Note:
the Audi and Merc that was spotted in that picture are the entry level model.
I don't know
Also will they kill the GX or leave it body on frame or reinvent it as RWD sport SUV aka Cayenne so as the LX to be the body on frame flagship, the GX the unibody RWD flagship and the RX as the mid???

also as I told before thois guy from lexus ausie didn't say to us what body type the GS will be, it may turn as the crazy back 6 GT not the 4 doors coupe 6 GC we always want
I don't know
Also will they kill the GX or leave it body on frame or reinvent it as RWD sport SUV aka Cayenne so as the LX to be the body on frame flagship, the GX the unibody RWD flagship and the RX as the mid???

also as I told before thois guy from lexus ausie didn't say to us what body type the GS will be, it may turn as the crazy back 6 GT not the 4 doors coupe 6 GC we always want
mikeavelli
The thing for me is, if this is the route the ES takes, they need much more than just a 300h and 350. Yes the base A6 is a FWD, CVT equipped, 4 cylinder car. Well they offer the amazing S6 and overseas the RS6. That provides a big halo for those base cars.

The new E class has tons of different engine choices with the madman E63 S launched.

BMW just launched the M5 which looks amazing on paper. Even without going that far, the M550 is a 0-60 in UNDER 4 SECONDS car!

Will Lexus upgrade the F-Sport program to finally add more power and not just cosmetic, handling changes? Or more of the same?
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
mikeavelli
The thing for me is, if this is the route the ES takes, they need much more than just a 300h and 350. Yes the base A6 is a FWD, CVT equipped, 4 cylinder car. Well they offer the amazing S6 and overseas the RS6. That provides a big halo for those base cars.

The new E class has tons of different engine choices with the madman E63 S launched.

BMW just launched the M5 which looks amazing on paper. Even without going that far, the M550 is a 0-60 in UNDER 4 SECONDS car!

Will Lexus upgrade the F-Sport program to finally add more power and not just cosmetic, handling changes? Or more of the same?
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
bogglo
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
No way
LWB IS
Lexus never did it even for china and deleted the double wheel base lengths in this new LS
bogglo
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
No way
LWB IS
Lexus never did it even for china and deleted the double wheel base lengths in this new LS
maiaramdan
I don't know
Also will they kill the GX or leave it body on frame or reinvent it as RWD sport SUV aka Cayenne so as the LX to be the body on frame flagship, the GX the unibody RWD flagship and the RX as the mid???

also as I told before thois guy from lexus ausie didn't say to us what body type the GS will be, it may turn as the crazy back 6 GT not the 4 doors coupe 6 GC we always want
Its crazy this point you made might just be the reason for the RXL.

and I hate the BMW GT shape
maiaramdan
I don't know
Also will they kill the GX or leave it body on frame or reinvent it as RWD sport SUV aka Cayenne so as the LX to be the body on frame flagship, the GX the unibody RWD flagship and the RX as the mid???

also as I told before thois guy from lexus ausie didn't say to us what body type the GS will be, it may turn as the crazy back 6 GT not the 4 doors coupe 6 GC we always want
Its crazy this point you made might just be the reason for the RXL.

and I hate the BMW GT shape
bogglo
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
As a Lexus optimist does this possibly mean?
IS F comes back
ES F (M5 etc fighter)
GS F (RS7/CLS etc fighter)
LC F (GT figther)
LS F (S63/S8 fighter)

I cannot lie its hard for me to even think about a ES F tacking the best from Germany. That said if Audi can do it surely Lexus can.
bogglo
Very good point.
There is no way the ES can fill in for the GS. The IS is the only Lexus car that can do that and that means LWB IS in North America.
As a Lexus optimist does this possibly mean?
IS F comes back
ES F (M5 etc fighter)
GS F (RS7/CLS etc fighter)
LC F (GT figther)
LS F (S63/S8 fighter)

I cannot lie its hard for me to even think about a ES F tacking the best from Germany. That said if Audi can do it surely Lexus can.

M