Video & Photo Gallery: 2018 Lexus LS 500 in Autumn Shimmer

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

There was a LS preview in Shanghai yesterday. Many people disappointed about the small rear seat space compare to its competitors.

There was a LS preview in Shanghai yesterday. Many people disappointed about the small rear seat space compare to its competitors.

There was a LS preview in Shanghai yesterday. Many people disappointed about the small rear seat space compare to its competitors.

There was a LS preview in Shanghai yesterday. Many people disappointed about the small rear seat space compare to its competitors.

meth.ix

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more. Fortunately, I have seen very little of that in the Lexus Enthusiast forum....but it is more common in some other forums.

meth.ix

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more. Fortunately, I have seen very little of that in the Lexus Enthusiast forum....but it is more common in some other forums.

meth.ix

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more. Fortunately, I have seen very little of that in the Lexus Enthusiast forum....but it is more common in some other forums.

meth.ix

Also, some rich people have a big ego, so they like knowing that they have ***hp in their car, go 0-60 under 4 secs, etc. even though these things are irrelevant to them because their drivers will never actually go so fast. That's why 12-cylinder versions of the S-Class and previous A8 existed, some people like to know that they have a dozen cylinders pulling them around.

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more. Fortunately, I have seen very little of that in the Lexus Enthusiast forum....but it is more common in some other forums.

mmcartalk

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more.

I saw one of those people for real today. I was driving on a 2-lane 40 MPH road with a thick forest up against both sides (as happens a lot in north-central Maryland) doing about 45 behind someone in a 3 Series. Out of nowhere an AMG Benz goes blasting past us in the left lane probably doing 60 and just makes it back into the right lane ahead of oncoming traffic. I had to laugh, because he paid a lot of money to go 15 more MPH than the BMW and I, and I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery (as one does in an LS).

mmcartalk

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more.

I saw one of those people for real today. I was driving on a 2-lane 40 MPH road with a thick forest up against both sides (as happens a lot in north-central Maryland) doing about 45 behind someone in a 3 Series. Out of nowhere an AMG Benz goes blasting past us in the left lane probably doing 60 and just makes it back into the right lane ahead of oncoming traffic. I had to laugh, because he paid a lot of money to go 15 more MPH than the BMW and I, and I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery (as one does in an LS).

mmcartalk

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more.

I saw one of those people for real today. I was driving on a 2-lane 40 MPH road with a thick forest up against both sides (as happens a lot in north-central Maryland) doing about 45 behind someone in a 3 Series. Out of nowhere an AMG Benz goes blasting past us in the left lane probably doing 60 and just makes it back into the right lane ahead of oncoming traffic. I had to laugh, because he paid a lot of money to go 15 more MPH than the BMW and I, and I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery (as one does in an LS).

mmcartalk

...Not only that, but some of those (never-satisfied) people, IMO, are just plain obnoxious to be around. No matter what they have, or drive, they are never content with the power level or the perceived prestige-level......they always want more.

I saw one of those people for real today. I was driving on a 2-lane 40 MPH road with a thick forest up against both sides (as happens a lot in north-central Maryland) doing about 45 behind someone in a 3 Series. Out of nowhere an AMG Benz goes blasting past us in the left lane probably doing 60 and just makes it back into the right lane ahead of oncoming traffic. I had to laugh, because he paid a lot of money to go 15 more MPH than the BMW and I, and I was just enjoying the ride and the scenery (as one does in an LS).

Gecko

If you think anyone is buying flagship luxury sedans solely because of a few tenths of a second 0-60, you don't understand anything about this segment.

The LS is 11 years old and the S Class and 7 Series have seen 2 full generations since it was introduced.

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

Gecko

If you think anyone is buying flagship luxury sedans solely because of a few tenths of a second 0-60, you don't understand anything about this segment.

The LS is 11 years old and the S Class and 7 Series have seen 2 full generations since it was introduced.

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

Gecko

If you think anyone is buying flagship luxury sedans solely because of a few tenths of a second 0-60, you don't understand anything about this segment.

The LS is 11 years old and the S Class and 7 Series have seen 2 full generations since it was introduced.

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

Gecko

If you think anyone is buying flagship luxury sedans solely because of a few tenths of a second 0-60, you don't understand anything about this segment.

The LS is 11 years old and the S Class and 7 Series have seen 2 full generations since it was introduced.

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

ssun30

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

So by this logic, Lexus is covered with LS "500"...? 740i, 750i, S400, S560, LS 500... sounds "fair" to me.

ssun30

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

So by this logic, Lexus is covered with LS "500"...? 740i, 750i, S400, S560, LS 500... sounds "fair" to me.

ssun30

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

So by this logic, Lexus is covered with LS "500"...? 740i, 750i, S400, S560, LS 500... sounds "fair" to me.

ssun30

Of course every single luxury sedan out there is overpowered. All of them (at least non-AWD models) are completely traction limited; adding power just brings more headache. The same applies to all performance vehicles. None of them could put down power efficiently so this entire engine arms race is stupid. Compared to the European/American power monsters the GS F is much more refined and balanced because 470hp is about the limit a RWD vehicle with road tires can handle.

But that's not the point. People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant. Take the Chinese market as an example, there is no single stretch of road in the entire nation on which one can do a full throttle quarter mile, because there are speed cameras in every corner. But people want cars with big "displacement number" (S550, 750Li, A8 50TFSI). Here even Corollas and Civics have that three digit number for people to show off. When an entry level ES (200) has a smaller number than a Civic (220), there is a problem. Bigger numbers make things sell. It's not like people really need a 20 mega pixel camera in their phones, but they buy them anyway.

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

So by this logic, Lexus is covered with LS "500"...? 740i, 750i, S400, S560, LS 500... sounds "fair" to me.

ssun30

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant.

Among luxury cars, Rolls-Royce probably had it right, when, for many years, their official HP and torque ratings simply stated "Adequate". ;)

ssun30

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant.

Among luxury cars, Rolls-Royce probably had it right, when, for many years, their official HP and torque ratings simply stated "Adequate". ;)

ssun30

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant.

Among luxury cars, Rolls-Royce probably had it right, when, for many years, their official HP and torque ratings simply stated "Adequate". ;)

ssun30

And to be fair Lexus was the one who started this acceleration/power arms race. People didn't believe a practical FWD car could handle more than 250hp until Lexus did the ES350. The GS400/430/460 gave Lexus the bragging right of having the fastest four door sedan for almost a decade.

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

People buy luxury vehicles as a symbol of social status. The acceleration figures may not matter, but that three digit "power equivalence rating" is very relevant.

Among luxury cars, Rolls-Royce probably had it right, when, for many years, their official HP and torque ratings simply stated "Adequate". ;)

mmcartalk

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

That is simply untrue. Torque does not matter at all once power is transmitted through the transmission; it is one of the most misunderstood fact about automobile on the Internet. A high rpm, low torque engine will have exactly the same effect on torque steer as a low rpm, high torque engine under hard acceleration, as long as they have the same exact peak power and transmission profile. Torque steer is caused by uneven traction, not engine torque. And it's not torque that accelerates the car; it's power, period. There are lots of professionals who interchange the two terms, because they gave up on lecturng the general public and just use whichever is more convenient instead.

The correct form of your statement is that turbocharged engines are likely more prone to torque steer than naturally aspirated engines, because they have more low end torque, hence more power at normal driving rpms. This is also why turbocharged engines "pull harder" than NA engines in daily driving.

mmcartalk

With FWD, HP is not a much of an issue as torque. Torque, especially with unequal-length half-shafts, is what actually tugs at the steering wheel on hard acceleration, not HP. More HP generally means more torque, but not always...several different factors in the engine come into play.

That is simply untrue. Torque does not matter at all once power is transmitted through the transmission; it is one of the most misunderstood fact about automobile on the Internet. A high rpm, low torque engine will have exactly the same effect on torque steer as a low rpm, high torque engine under hard acceleration, as long as they have the same exact peak power and transmission profile. Torque steer is caused by uneven traction, not engine torque. And it's not torque that accelerates the car; it's power, period. There are lots of professionals who interchange the two terms, because they gave up on lecturng the general public and just use whichever is more convenient instead.

The correct form of your statement is that turbocharged engines are likely more prone to torque steer than naturally aspirated engines, because they have more low end torque, hence more power at normal driving rpms. This is also why turbocharged engines "pull harder" than NA engines in daily driving.