Will there be a Lexus GS F?


Lexus GS F Sport by Five Axis

Autocar is reporting that a high-performance Lexus GS F is still very much a possibility:

Product planning chief Karl Schlicht revealed to Autocar that he would “love to see” a GS-F make production, although he conceded that he “didn’t yet have it approved” by senior Toyota management.

The GS-F would be the final piece in a five-part product strategy to boost Lexus’s image and its sporting credentials. “With a GS-F, we would have a solid pyramid structure of performance models,” said Schlicht.

He said it was important that any Lexus kept its refinement. So, if approved, it’s likely that the GS-F would be as much a potent grand tourer as an out-and-out focused driving tool.

This may be an obvious point, but any chance of a GS F rests on the success of the standard GS range. If the new model can maintain a decent sales pace, a high-performance variant makes a lot of sense — in fact, a senior Lexus official talking openly about a GS F would suggest that discussions are in advanced stages.

Autocar also includes some speculation on the GS F’s potential powertrain:

No details have been given of the GS-F’s powertrain, but insiders have hinted that it could be a detuned version of the LFA’s 4.8-litre engine. It would be reduced to 4.6 litres and around 450bhp, with an emphasis on boosting low-end torque.

This isn’t the first time the LFA’s V10 has been mentioned as a possible GS F engine — here’s a quote from GS Chief Engineer Kanamori-san last year from a Motor Trend article:

Mr. Kanamori said Lexus never planned to carry on with the V-10 project, but that it was “technically feasible to fit the engine into the new GS.” Further proving the idea has been seriously pondered, he said the engine would have to be detuned to deliver more torque instead of power.

Releasing a GS F with less than 500hp seems like a risky move given that this class of super-sedans is dominated by stats — and yet, even though the new BMW M5 is packing 560hp and the Mercedes E63 AMG has 518hp, if I had to choose between one of these models and their twin-turbo V8s versus a GS F with a LFA-sourced V10, I know what I’d pick every time.

[Source: Autocar]

Comments


  • http://twitter.com/CruxFiveTen Crux

    If it is….. Boyyy Oh Boi… I’ll be FIRST at the automall Lexus dealership. Believe that!. 

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Within 2 years, we will see the GSF

    I’m thinking a turbo-charged 5.0 from the ISF, with AWD, packing 525HP, and still weighing several hundred pounds less than the competition.
    BD

  • 05RollaXRS

    Turbocharging is boring. The new M5 has been criticized a lot for being not the same hooligan that the old E60 M5 was with the V10 sound and incredible response. Also, M5 weighs 2 and a half tons (4500 lbs).

    The detuned LFA engine with 450 HP even if it weighs 3700 lbs will not cut it. Not to mention, LFA’s engine costs $157,000 to build.

    A supercharged version of the IS-F 5.0 Liter V8 will be most probably the case for the GS-F.

  • Thomas

    There will be no GS F. Never.

  • Thomas

    Turbo charged cars suck! How will Lexus make its car weigh less than the competition?

  • Thomas

    To buy one or just to look at it?

  • 05RollaXRS

    Turbocharging adds a lot of weight with the heavier internals, piping, plumbing and intercooling, it adds an additional 120 – 180 lbs depending on the implementation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/LexusandThePursuit WorldofLuxury

    V10!!!
    V10!!!
    V10!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/LexusandThePursuit WorldofLuxury

    Is that reverse psychology? aha

  • Yesu

    Yeah turbocharged cars just don’t have that responsiveness of naturally aspirated engines..

    For example the 2GR-FE engine found certain Lexus & Toota vehicles is smoother, quieter, more velvety and unruffled then the 3.5L ecoboost and is faster considering how the ford is turbo and same size lol

  • Lexus LFA

    how a bout new engine altogether 4.6 liter V8 with around 520 horse power
    lexus has never turbo charged and never will.

  • Brad

    I hope(if they plunk this ‘detuned’ engine in the GS engine bay)they leave the 10 individual throttle bodies & dry sump oil system intact.Even if leaving the dry sump system isn’t feasible,(probably $15 K or more for this part alone)please,please Lexus,leave those 10 individual throttle bodies intact.I guarantee that neither of the turbo engines in this post have the same responsiveness that the 1LR-GUE has!

  • Brad

    I’m gonna have to agree with you.You just seem to make a lot of sense.

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    It’s already lighter, in base form.  With AWD, the GS is still under 2 tons.  it’s the lightest car in this class.

    The M5 is well over 4400 lbs
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Add that and the V8 to the GS AWD, and it’s still about 150-200 pounds less than a M5
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Who said supercharging is any better than turbocharging?

    You contradict yourself when you say turbocharging is bad, but supercharging is good…….
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    The GSF WILL be turbocharged, or supercharged, primarily to keep the costs in line.  And EPA CAFE considerations.

    The LFA engine will never get the car under $100k.  They have a great 5.0 in the ISF, but it’s gonna need help to run in that class.  It makes too much sense to add a turbo package to it.  
    BD

  • Ljn71

    I really don’t care what approach they take to powering a GSF. V10,V8,turbo,na,etc. Whatever they do I know they will do it to perfection. I have absolute faith in Lexus engineering.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=717185464 Мохамед Абдулрахман Рамадан

    i like the idea of high end torque even with decreasing the displacement to 4.6 and power to 450hp

    Lexus now is not about huge number but about fun to drive that was the LFA message and that what appear clearly with ISF and the new GS-Fsport

    last thing a lot of different sources said it will be that 4.6L V10 and i do believe in that

  • Jdaugherty

    I did hear of a “monster” engine that is coming soon. I dont know what that means except to be expecting something that is going to be sick. Maybe this is it. That would be really cool.

  • Erich Kerner

    First of all i would say Lexus needs a more powerfull engine for the GS before they add an GS-F to there model lineup.

  • 05RollaXRS

    Supercharging has no turbo lag. Also, supercharging does not add as much weight as much as turbocharging does.

  • 05RollaXRS

    You mean low end torque. Detuning the engine to produce more low end torque to support additional weight will result in loss of high rpm torque (and its corresponding horsepower since horsepower is extrapolated from torque).

  • Mike DeLorca

    Why so negative ? LEXUS is moving in directions we will be so impressed beyond our imagination.   Keep positive !

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    The hybrid is more powerful, coming in May (Ad campaign starts with the NBA Playoffs)

    And they don’t need two V8s
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    This isn’t 1992.

    Current twin turbos don’t suffer from lag. Plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have twin turbos now. I don’t hear anybody complaining about lag……
    BD

  • Thomas

    Why not 800 or even better, 5 000 HP?!

  • Thomas

    This is Lexus. Not your local tuner-guys with caps and baggy pants.

    BO

  • 05RollaXRS

    I don’t want to argue, but if you truly believe the modern turbochargers DON’T have turbo lag, you are dellusional since the exhaust gases must be routed back into the turbine.

    I have driven the 535i recently and it clearly has a small lag in throttle response. 

    Walter Rohrl recently was interviewed and stated that inspite of the variable turbine geometry, the lag in the Porsche 911 turbo S makes him choose the GT3 RS over the 911 turbo S. So clearly either him and I are living in 1992 or you simply have a lack of understanding here.

    The throttle response in supercharged car will always be better no matter how much they try and “reduce” the lag in turbo cars. 

  • Anonymous

    GS-F would be awesome! BTW, fantastic picture. I love it :)

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Show me a review where modern turbos are taken to task over turbo lag.

    Good luck with that.

    These cars are so powerful, you won’t notice it, or it’s not worth whining about.
    BD

  • James

    Lexus doesn’t really need to care about CAFE with a high performance model.  CAFE is calclulated on volume of cars.  A low volume, low MPG car wouldn’t impact them as bad as a LX 570 would.

    And yes, if we’re talking “predictions”, there will be a GS F as a 2015 model.

  • James

    Also, although Toyota doesn’t have a recent history with forced induction outside of TRD, I wouldn’t put it past them to create a forced induced engine in the near future.

  • 05RollaXRS

    I gave you the reference to 2011 interview of the legend and Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl. Look it up! Although, he was comparing it to a naturally aspirated engine rather than supercharged engine.

    Though, there is nothing wrong with people being OK with turbo lag. You clearly lacked knowledge in subject matter, yet you called me out for “being in 1992″. If I am in 1992 then so is the racing legend and Porsche lead test engineer Walter Rohrl.

  • 05RollaXRS

    Here is more proof regarding the F10 BMW M5 turbo lag:

    http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1109_first_drive_2012_bmw_m5/viewall.html

    “The biggest disappointment with the M5 is turbo lag. Yeah, yeah, how typical that I’m complaining about a turbocharged M5. Actually, I’m not complaining about the fact that the M5 wears turbos: I’m complaining that the S63TU engine has so much more lag than the non-Valvetronic S63 did. In that silly X6M (and the slightly less silly X5M), the turbos were among the most responsive I’ve ever experienced. Not so in the M5 – the lag is significant enough that you have to drive around it.”

    So there you have it. I could produce a lot more proof because factual I am correct. Period.

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Problem is Karl has said, right here, that any car they make will have an eye towards CAFE.  It wouldn’t be any worse than the current competition.

    A turbocharger would be a great way to keep a reasonable EPA rating, add the necessary power, and keep prices reasonable
    BD

  • BOSS

    I’m 100% they will build a GS-F, if not I’ll buy everyone here pizza.

  • Drock3800

    A direct drop-in of the LFA V10 is impossible.  The engine itself has close to an $80,000 price tag, which would put any GS F model way out its competitions price points (think $150-160,000 base price).

  • http://twitter.com/SebKroetsch Sebastien Kroetsch

    For some reason, I’ve always dreamed of seeing the 5.0L with a blower. Give it say 10lbs of boost and you’re laughing. There is very easy ways to bring the mass down to compensate the extra V8 and supercharger weight. The idea would be to keep the car around 4000lbs or less if possible without compromising the ride too much. 500hp/450lb-ft minimum is easily achievable.

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    This is what I’m thinkin’!

    Plus the LSF will need something, so give the GSF one turbo.  For the LSF, add one more!
    The easiest was to kill two birds with one stone

    ISF (2013):  NA 5.0 with 450HP
    GSF (2014):  5.0 with turbo 525HP
    LSF (2015):  5.0 with Twin-Turbo 600HP!
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Don’t be surprised if hybrid power is used.  Don’t surprised at all!

    They provide great torque instantly, silently, and the ICE can act like a turbo/supercharger above 30 MPH!

    Lexus wants to put hybrids over anyway.  They really don’t want to use turbos.

    But hybrid power would need to weigh less than 300 lbs, installed……
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    Karl says the LF-LC is now a “50/50″ shot to make production, based on it’s positive feedback on the Auto Show Circuit

    http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-Listens-To-Feedback-And-Considers-Production-Of-LF-LC-Concept-69800/
    BD

  • http://twitter.com/CruxFiveTen Crux

    Thomas, you got jokes!!!! To buy Shelock! But you already assume I’m fraking poor so I’ll just window shop right?? Riiiiight. 

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    This is what I’ve always thought as well — I don’t see how detuning an engine would reduce the cost by any significant margin.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I didn’t see any mention of CAFE in Karl’s comments.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Actually, I think the opposite — if Lexus has a GS F, there’s no real need for a V8 in the standard model.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Regardless of what this story says, I agree with you. I just don’t see how a V10 GS F could be competitively priced.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Seriously, what are you even talking about?

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Considering there’s a 4.6L V8 in the current LS, I don’t think your idea would require a new engine. Still, it’s more likely that the 5.0L from the IS F is a better fit.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    This has to be the worst attempt at trolling I’ve ever seen.

  • Jake

    That’s definitely what Lexus needs to boost up his performance and coupe line. We haven’t seen any coupe since the extinguished SC.

  • Jake

    People need to realize that the engines have indeed changed. BMW just a few weeks ago released their “BMW Performance Line” which involves diesel powered engines for their very first time in motor sport. Hybrid sports car don’t necessarily need to be boring or bland to drive, they perform well as the GS450h showed us, and they do have a good MPG.

  • James

    Wait for SEMA… hint hint

  • http://twitter.com/SebKroetsch Sebastien Kroetsch

    What they need is a win at LeMans with the TS303 and prove their superiority in terms of performance and hybrid technology. When they pull that off everyone will realize their untouchable and deserve to be the number one automotive brand in the world.

  • Erich Kerner

    So i learn from you guys there will be no “counterpart” from Lexus to the BMW 550i?? So at the end we will have three engine choises for the GS – 350, 450h, F model.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    That’s my personal belief, yes. Whether it’s true or not is something else entirely. ;-)

  • Mike DeLorca

    I think you nailed it here !   Your last two posts are right on……the ISF-GSF and LSF with  5.0 and  the HP boost on each one coupled possibly with Hybrid power. I truthfully think this is what we are going to see across the board…..BD has inside connections I think !

  • http://twitter.com/BlackDynamiteNY BlackDynamiteOnline

    550i and E500/550 don’t sell in big numbers
    Neither did the GS460……
    BD

  • Matt

    Lexus are heavily into hybrid technology.
    They already have a very potent 5L V8 in the IS-F, 416 BHP and 371 lb-ft
    Why turbo or supercharge when you can add massive amounts of torque with an electric motor?
    Would also improve fuel efficiency and emissions.
    The V10 in the LFA just would cost too much to use.

    I would love to see the following in both a GS-F and a possible LF-LC

    The IS-F 5L V8 + Hybrid giving easy 500+BHP with masses of instant Torque

  • Jake

    What do you suggest? A GS F? Hybrid IS F? LF-LC production model?

    James, you gotta tell us your sources!

  • Lexustechsa

    TMG has already put turbos on the LS460 , maybe it is in preparation for the GS-F :)

  • Lexus LFA

    i get what you’re saying but don’t you think different levels of sport cars or luxury cars should have different engines. And i think the LS which is the flagship of lexus should have a engine no other lexus has. the flag ship is suppose to be the best the company can offer.

  • Lexus LFA

    1. I don’t know about the LS F
    2. Between Lexus cars and Toyota cars they share enough engines
    3. Lexus has never turbo charged and never will.
    4. The GS F should have an altogether different engine

  • Matt
  • guest

    Centrifugal Supercharging does have lag. Roots style does not. Turbocharging is far from boring.