Visual Comparison: Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

Which one do you think looks better?

  • Nissan Z

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • Toyota Supra

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • Total voters
    9

super51fan

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Well that's your wrong opinion lol. The thing is, that's because they did do more than what you said. Worthiness of the nameplate is subjective. For what it is, it's a damn good car and I'm just happy that the nameplate is back with a sweet inline-six, RWD sports car that puts insane near-supercar figures (like bruh 3.7 seconds to 60 mph? That's faster than any Lexus product ever made bar the LFA. Watch the Supra GRMN wipe everything Lexus has). I'm just waiting for the manual. Otherwise, it meets up to the Supra nameplate's expectations.



LMAO what? Wrong. It uses a 7-speed automatic. That could be the dual-clutch or a Toyota made automatic that's meant for racing purposes. TRD USA f*cked up. If it's what you're saying then it would use an 8-speed automatic. Yikes bro.

Here, it even says it in their god damn brochure. But go ahead hate on me for saying the truth.


You and @Gecko both just showed me how you guys discussed by using anecdotal evidence or just incorrect facts. You did it a couple of times, the most recent thing being the transmission debacle in the Supra GT4, and @Gecko making predictions for himself that the GR Supra isn't holding up well and that's contrary to early reports of the car being able to handle so much stress. He also forgot that the platform is only 1 year old so he's just using baseless predictions.

Don't get mad at me for being optimistic, I have criticized the car on many regards but it is objectively the best Supra that's ever been built.



But that's not his fault. He still teased us with a load of info and you're just pressuring on just the few things that he said previously that happened to change. So what if some sh*t goes south sometimes? At least Toyota is getting way more than Lexus can ever dream of.
Don’t say my opinion is wrong, then tell me the car being worthy of a nameplate is subjective, and then it lives up the Supra expectations. I have my opinion and maybe you’re not old enough to see where the Supra used to sit previously, but a budget Cayman is not that.

3.7 seconds is nothing with today’s transmissions, tires, and launch control. And there’s more to the Supra than track times, there was even a time when the MR2 was quicker the Supra.

It uses the ZF8 with the 8th gear electronically removed. You’re welcome to email TRD USA, TMC Europe, or any of the dozen race teams that have the car to prove me wrong. If you’re going to act as an expert atleast do the research (which isn’t just googling things) to back it up.

It is objectively the best Supra, but being the best car is besides the point. The Mustang Mach-E is arguably the best Mustang ever, but doesn’t mean the car represents the name Mustang.
 
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Gecko

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I love how when you reach the end of your rope, you put up Lexus as a straw man argument when nobody here is talking about Supra vs Lexus, and we are all very well versed (and in agreement) on Lexus’ shortcomings. It continues to be you who is sharing anecdotal, “Well I saw it on Supra MKV” type of information, pulling out irrelevant comparisons, and making hypothetical arguments about things that don’t exist.

For you to say the A90 is the best Supra ever built shows you have no idea what you’re talking about. So I have nothing further to say here.
 

super51fan

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I love how when you reach the end of your rope, you put up Lexus as a straw man argument when nobody here is talking about Supra vs Lexus, and we are all very well versed (and in agreement) on Lexus’ shortcomings. It continues to be you who is sharing anecdotal, “Well I saw it on Supra MKV” type of information, pulling out irrelevant comparisons, and making hypothetical arguments about things that don’t exist.

For you to say the A90 is the best Supra ever built shows you have no idea what you’re talking about. So I have nothing further to say here.
I definitely agree with using the Supra's BMW attributes over Lexus to support how good of car it is directly conflicts with the car being a good Toyota product and just echoes our complaints about Lexus not being competitive. These are only positives because Toyota/Lexus has chosen to be competitive.

The Supra is quicker than anything Lexus has put out, not because it is a good Toyota product, but because Toyota/Lexus has neglected developing any sports cars where as BMW hasn't.
The Supra's infotainment is better than anything in a Lexus, not because it is a good Toyota product, but because Toyota/Lexus has neglected developing a good infotainment where as BMW hasn't.

Examples like this can't be used a positives for the Supra since they not reflect BMW's competencies, but highlight what Lexus is lacking. If Lexus did have a 400+ hp turbo V6 (well they do and it should have been in the Supra but I digress), with a great transmission, light(er) chassis, and great infotainment, then these arguments would fall flat on their face.
 
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I love how when you reach the end of your rope, you put up Lexus as a straw man argument when nobody here is talking about Supra vs Lexus, and we are all very well versed (and in agreement) on Lexus’ shortcomings. It continues to be you who is sharing anecdotal, “Well I saw it on Supra MKV” type of information, pulling out irrelevant comparisons, and making hypothetical arguments about things that don’t exist.
How rich of you to accuse me of using anecdotal information and hypothetical arguments where you literally did the exact same thing a few comments ago lmfao. And who said it's just from "I saw it form SupraMkV" type of information? I literally said I know other people who were involved in the project and spoke to my local dealer about it. You literally have reading comprehension issues.

For you to say the A90 is the best Supra ever built shows you have no idea what you’re talking about. So I have nothing further to say here.
Well you should go further on that. Dynamically, it definitely is the best one ever built when it comes to your dollar as well. I also explained why it was great. Whereas you're just being a grade-A jerk towards me and just ending the argument on there. CONTINUE your argument. You're literally accusing me of not basing anything where you're doing the exact same thing yourself. So go on @Gecko, since you are so all high and mighty and know about everything, which is the best Supra ever in YOUR OPINION? Unlike you I actually respect your opinions. But I don't respect when people make false and damning accusations. And that's what you're extremely guilty of whether you like it or not.

And look, @super51fan did the exact same thing with this comment and you like it? LOL. Get outta here.

If Lexus did have a 400+ hp turbo V6 (well they do and it should have been in the Supra but I digress), with a great transmission, light(er) chassis, and great infotainment, then these arguments would fall flat on their face.
The point is that Lexus didn't even have the gravitas to do something like this in the first place. BMW or not, the car is at least here, and it's competitive. I use the Lexus argument because I see so many people being so defensive over Lexus despite them not releasing anything exciting. Let's say that the GR Supra was a complete rebadged BMW (which it definitely isn't), it's STILL a product that's exciting.

I basically answered everything and you guys are digging yourself a deeper hole in your argument by making excuses. By now I literally made my case and you can read everything from the beginning (that is if you didn't delete my comments).

I will formally withdraw myself from this discussion now.
 

super51fan

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How rich of you to accuse me of using anecdotal information and hypothetical arguments where you literally did the exact same thing a few comments ago lmfao. And who said it's just from "I saw it form SupraMkV" type of information? I literally said I know other people who were involved in the project and spoke to my local dealer about it. You literally have reading comprehension issues.



Well you should go further on that. Dynamically, it definitely is the best one ever built when it comes to your dollar as well. I also explained why it was great. Whereas you're just being a grade-A jerk towards me and just ending the argument on there. CONTINUE your argument. You're literally accusing me of not basing anything where you're doing the exact same thing yourself. So go on @Gecko, since you are so all high and mighty and know about everything, which is the best Supra ever in YOUR OPINION? Unlike you I actually respect your opinions. But I don't respect when people make false and damning accusations. And that's what you're extremely guilty of whether you like it or not.

And look, @super51fan did the exact same thing with this comment and you like it? LOL. Get outta here.


The point is that Lexus didn't even have the gravitas to do something like this in the first place. BMW or not, the car is at least here, and it's competitive. I use the Lexus argument because I see so many people being so defensive over Lexus despite them not releasing anything exciting. Let's say that the GR Supra was a complete rebadged BMW (which it definitely isn't), it's STILL a product that's exciting.

I basically answered everything and you guys are digging yourself a deeper hole in your argument by making excuses. By now I literally made my case and you can read everything from the beginning (that is if you didn't delete my comments).

I will formally withdraw myself from this discussion now.
You have to take into consideration the relative performance of the cars. The MKIV was a much higher performing car relative to everything else compared to where the MKV sits in the market today. Of course the MKV is a better car than the MKIV but that is a irrelevant point to make since you would have a hard time finding a car that isn't better than it's early 90s counterpart.

You backpedaled when I told BMW parts numbers, you still haven't addressed the Supra's market position even though I have mentioned it several times, you ignored when I told you the 2JZ wasn't tunable like the V35a, you never provided me with a manual Supra spy shot, and you can't provide evidence of work that Toyota has done beyond what can be done with a laptop and scan tool.
 
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You have to take into consideration the relative performance of the cars. The MKIV was a much higher performing car relative to everything else compared to where the MKV sits in the market today. Of course the MKV is a better car than the MKIV but that is a irrelevant point to make since you would have a hard time finding a car that isn't better than it's early 90s counterpart.

You backpedaled when I told BMW parts numbers, you still haven't addressed the Supra's market position even though I have mentioned it several times, you ignored when I told you the 2JZ wasn't tunable like the V35a, you never provided me with a manual Supra spy shot, and you can't provide evidence of work that Toyota has done beyond what can be done with a laptop and scan tool.
I didn't ignore you though. I brought up other points. I will agree that the A80 was definitely competing in a higher class of vehicles than the A90 is competing now. I'm will also admit that I am unsure if this is by design or by coincidence. The A80 was a Japanese Lamborghini that fought the Ferrari 348, Porsche 911 Turbo, and the Aston Martin DB7 while the A90 is a competitor to the Porsche 911, C8 Corvette, Porsche Cayman S/GTS, and the BMW M2.

When I mean non-tunable I mean by doing things the modern way, by manipulating the ECU (which I'm pretty sure I mentioned before but it slid past you) to make the power unit more power. Of course you could modify the V35A-FTS by adding bigger turbos, having different downpipes, and doing other power-inducing modifications. However as technology progresses, this is a way more cost-efficient way of making power. The Bosch ECU in the GR Supra is way more tuner friendly in that with a simple ECU reflash you easily make another 70+ whp out of the gate. Now this stuff is further but a downpipe then wakes the car up even more and with just two simple mods you easily make 100-110 more whp than stock and you can go ballistic with the throttle response.

As for the spy shot, I said it was well deep within the SupraMkV forums, you can find it there. I'm not going to spoonfeed you everything. It was on a 4-cylinder model though.

......and you can't provide evidence of work that Toyota has done beyond what can be done with a laptop and scan tool.
I literally did that several times but I'm sick of repeating myself. Toyota has outlined a lot of the things that they wanted for the new GR Supra. So that wasn't up to BMW and that wasn't done from a laptop and scan tool. Also does chassis tuning (that's stiffer than the LFA) ring a bell to you? What about the engine stress-testing that I kept mentioning or how the car has been shakedown tested up till 700 horsepower. You seriously are going to have the audacity to say that this can be done with a f*cking computer and scan tool? Also I mentioned all of these things before mind you so don't start changing sh*t on me.

You and @Gecko both outed yourselves as totally ignorant here. I can't even help you with that issue anymore.

Again, I'm out.
 

super51fan

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You didn't address the part numbers.

I didn't ignore you though. I brought up other points. I will agree that the A80 was definitely competing in a higher class of vehicles than the A90 is competing now. I'm will also admit that I am unsure if this is by design or by coincidence. The A80 was a Japanese Lamborghini that fought the Ferrari 348, Porsche 911 Turbo, and the Aston Martin DB7 while the A90 is a competitor to the Porsche 911, C8 Corvette, Porsche Cayman S/GTS, and the BMW M2.
Ignoring how wrong this is, don't you see how problematic this is? The MKIV was a real competitor and we were teased with a supercar-esque product, how can you not see why people would be disappointed with the finished product regardless of how good it is? RWD inline 6 sports car aren't the only thing that represents 'Supra.'

When I mean non-tunable I mean by doing things the modern way, by manipulating the ECU (which I'm pretty sure I mentioned before but it slid past you) to make the power unit more power. Of course you could modify the V35A-FTS by adding bigger turbos, having different downpipes, and doing other power-inducing modifications. However as technology progresses, this is a way more cost-efficient way of making power. The Bosch ECU in the GR Supra is way more tuner friendly in that with a simple ECU reflash you easily make another 70+ whp out of the gate. Now this stuff is further but a downpipe then wakes the car up even more and with just two simple mods you easily make 100-110 more whp than stock and you can go ballistic with the throttle response.
But that doesn't make the B58 a 2JZ successor because someone has cracked the encryption. If someone cracked the V35a tomorrow then this point doesn't exist.

As for the spy shot, I said it was well deep within the SupraMkV forums, you can find it there. I'm not going to spoonfeed you everything. It was on a 4-cylinder model though.
Backing up your claims with proof is not spoon feeding information.

I literally did that several times but I'm sick of repeating myself. Toyota has outlined a lot of the things that they wanted for the new GR Supra. So that wasn't up to BMW and that wasn't done from a laptop and scan tool. Also does chassis tuning (that's stiffer than the LFA) ring a bell to you? What about the engine stress-testing that I kept mentioning or how the car has been shakedown tested up till 700 horsepower. You seriously are going to have the audacity to say that this can be done with a f*cking computer and scan tool? Also I mentioned all of these things before mind you so don't start changing sh*t on me.
I forgot to mention the QA portion but I did mention it earlier in this thread.

Marketing chassis rigidity and developing chassis rigidity are two different things. The G29/J29 chassis will be used on the G42 and G87 (with a piece of the 8 series behind the pillar for the back seats) so who is to say BMW didn't engineer this rigidity into the platform? Just because Toyota marketed this rigidity, doesn't mean they were responsible for the engineering.

You and @Gecko both outed yourselves as totally ignorant here. I can't even help you with that issue anymore.

Again, I'm out.
You can't call someone ignorant because they don't believe the same stories as you. I have read the same forum posts and interviews as you, I am just not buying it. They have every reason to twist the truth here.
 
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