Toyota To Offer Several Powertrains In Future, Won’t Focus On EVs

[spwolf]

The simple fact is that every mainstream car maker (i.e. not Tesla) is investing in multiple electrification technologies, but they only talk about their BEV efforts because it's popular PR. VAG will never tell the media their main push today is actually (mild) HEV and they are developing FCEV because the moment you mention 'hybrids' and 'hydrogen fuel cells' the media will label you as 'uninnovative' because of the 'BEV or bust' narrative. It's the same reason you can never talk about nuclear power when discussing about replacing fossil fuel.

VAGs real push is BEV, not mild hybrid.

Everyone else sure, but not VW.

Of course, I am talking about Europe.

 

[maiaramdan]

I think after all what I saw from all Automakers in the previous decade
I am sure that TMC is the most future prove corp., from Hydrogen Fuel-Cell, to Hydrogen in Internal combustion, BEV, Plug-In & non Plug-In Hybrid, in all types of vehicles from Boats, Yachts "Lexus", Trucks, Busses "Hino", Cars, Motorcycles "Yamaha"
Toyota really passed that test successfully than all other!

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles

Toyota used to lead in fuel economy standards.

www.theverge.com

I wonder if the US media is going after Toyota

Toyota’s argument that hybrids and fuel-cell vehicles should also be included in the conversation is not a bad one. Hybrid vehicles in particular are an important stepping stone to the wider adoption of EVs, especially as the charging infrastructure is still in its infancy.

But that argument might carry more weight if the automaker’s track record on fuel economy was actually, well, good. According to the EPA, Toyota has slipped in its ranking in fuel efficiency across its entire fleet, going from an industry leader to near the bottom with GM and Ford. This comes as the company has pushed the sale of huge gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs, which tend to command a larger profit than smaller sedans and hatchbacks.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles

Toyota used to lead in fuel economy standards.

www.theverge.com

I wonder if the US media is going after Toyota

Leftist media mob won't be stopping with their radical BS anytime soon.

Portfolio lineup is the way and these idiots will never see it as they lack the basic foresight. The NYT (which is full of far left propagandist garbage) also wrote a BS smear piece against Toyota too.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Leftist media mob won't be stopping with their radical BS anytime soon.

Portfolio lineup is the way and these idiots will never see it as they lack the basic foresight. The NYT (which is full of far left propagandist garbage) also wrote a BS smear piece against Toyota too.

The thing that I've seen on the Interwebz is that with the recent donation to Republicans, some in the public, many existing Toyota owners, were ready to dump the brand. It remains to be seen what happens in the future, because obviously, sales say otherwise and gas vehicles (trucks and SUVs) are selling. It seems that many current Toyota owners (Prius owners?) may not buy another one because they aren't fully committed to EVs if not for political reasons already lol.

 

[ssun30]

Buying cars based on political belief is another level...

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

The thing that I've seen on the Interwebz is that with the recent donation to Republicans, some in the public, many existing Toyota owners, were ready to dump the brand. It remains to be seen what happens in the future, because obviously, sales say otherwise and gas vehicles (trucks and SUVs) are selling. It seems that many current Toyota owners (Prius owners?) may not buy another one because they aren't fully committed to EVs if not for political reasons already lol.

Who cares, less dumb radical leftists in a Toyota is better. IDGAF.

 

[Will1991]

Gentlemen, that subject has been already discussed and it’s closed.



Coming back to Toyota’s view on future powertrains:

In the past, I was more pro-BEV than now… Due to my work I’ve realized people aren’t ready and most of them don’t even know about BEV’s technical limitations…

One of them, it’s durability…

The average car in Europe is about 11 years, and I don’t believe we will have many BEV’s crossing the 10~11th year mark without replacing the battery pack. If it’s done within warranty, it’s wonderful but for the secondhand market it will ruin some family’s financial stability.

Then, there’s the sustainability, we’re going for a “bigger is better” approach… But cars with 100kWh on board to do 10~30 miles per day is complete lunacy!

It’s not because Toyota has this vision, but I agree with them.

I’m pro-BEV, but in my opinion, we need a different way… If sustainability is our main focus, we need to sort out all that recycling problems and establish a proper circular economy first.

I don’t see this BEV-all-the-things approach working for the future...

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Who cares, less dumb radical leftists in a Toyota is better. IDGAF.

Not going to turn this thread into right and left, but each side drives a certain type of vehicle that Toyota offers.

Toyota bet wrong on EVs, so now it’s lobbying to slow the transition

Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen.

arstechnica.com

I think Toyota was just a little too optimistic on Fuel Cells...especially when there's only one station in such a big area and the infrastructure here in the US is still too weak, especially when Tesla has chargers everywhere. But the issue that I see is that even existing RAV4/Prius Prime/Hybrid whatever owners seem to take offense that Toyota isn't taking the Tesla approach. TBH, the bZ might shut some of them up when it comes to market.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I’m pro-BEV, but in my opinion, we need a different way… If sustainability is our main focus, we need to sort out all that recycling problems and establish a proper circular economy first.

I don’t see this BEV-all-the-things approach working for the future...

THIS.

I don't have to add anything more to this. This last part is self-explanatory but should be emphasized time and time again because people like to forget and move on to something else.

Enough with the fake outrage.

 

[spwolf]

No worries, change always happens gradually.
Toyotas view is that they make a lot of money now and will not want to change that until they have to. With EVs their profit will go down.

 

[spwolf]

But the issue that I see is that even existing RAV4/Prius Prime/Hybrid whatever owners seem to take offense that Toyota isn't taking the Tesla approach. TBH, the bZ might shut some of them up when it comes to market.

This part is simple - once you drive Prime, you realize best part of it is EV, and you will want your next car to be EV, hopefully from your favorite car brand.

Right now plugins are awesome on paper but reality is they are so slow to charge that people either don't plug them in or if they do, they hoard public chargers from EV owners that need them.

Needing 4-5 hours to charge for 30 miles range is stupid.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly, I still believe the BEV is just a bubble which will explode soon
As well as I am still believing on new tech on the ICE like the synthetic fuel from Porsche or like the hydrogen used recently on ICE Corolla is million times future prove than the BEV

 

[spwolf]

Honestly, I still believe the BEV is just a bubble which will explode soon
As well as I am still believing on new tech on the ICE like the synthetic fuel from Porsche or like the hydrogen used recently on ICE Corolla is million times future prove than the BEV

explode as meteoric rise in Europe? Yes, that is already happening.
In 10 years, most of new car sales in Europe will be EVs. Only question by how much and that is because of trucks and bigger suvs, as well as small cheap cars.

But EU is pushing it hard, they are building hundreds of thousands public chargers everywhere with public money, infra structure is already ok and will be much better every month that passes.

 

[Will1991]

By the way, Toyota published sales results for JAN-JUN, does anyone know which car Toyota does with a MHEV system?

This part is simple - once you drive Prime, you realize best part of it is EV, and you will want your next car to be EV, hopefully from your favorite car brand.

Right now plugins are awesome on paper but reality is they are so slow to charge that people either don't plug them in or if they do, they hoard public chargers from EV owners that need them.

Needing 4-5 hours to charge for 30 miles range is stupid.

I don’t recall any PHV that takes 4-5 hours to charge 30 miles, even with a poor efficiency, it shouldn’t take more than 10-12kWh to do 30 miles…

But I do agree with you, PHV’s aren’t being used to their full capacity… Even from a technical view, most of the manufactures don’t do any improvement to increase efficiency when you travel in HV mode, they just slap a huge battery with a conventional ICE and call it a day.

 

[spwolf]

By the way, Toyota published sales results for JAN-JUN, does anyone know which car Toyota does with a MHEV system?




I don’t recall any PHV that takes 4-5 hours to charge 30 miles, even with a poor efficiency, it shouldn’t take more than 10-12kWh to do 30 miles…

But I do agree with you, PHV’s aren’t being used to their full capacity… Even from a technical view, most of the manufactures don’t do any improvement to increase efficiency when you travel in HV mode, they just slap a huge battery with a conventional ICE and call it a day.

Rav4 has 3.3kwh charger, so it would take 4-5hrs to get full charge in. There is 6.6kwh optional in some markets, but even that is 2.5hrs.

If you are charging that on public charger, and not at home, quite likely you might be taking someones space that can charge at 3x-6x speed and has only EV mode, or heck

30 miles is easy to spend in summer for vehicle like Prime, just turn up AC or drive at higher speeds.

And this is the best PHEV on the market.

X5 45e takes 7hrs to charge for 40 miles.

This is fine at home, but at public charger is just a waste, especially on highways.

Now these kinds of problems are easily visible once you become EV owner... only luck there is if you own a Tesla and you have your own network that charges only fast charging vehicles and is available on most highways.

 

[Will1991]

Rav4 has 3.3kwh charger, so it would take 4-5hrs to get full charge in. There is 6.6kwh optional in some markets, but even that is 2.5hrs.

If you are charging that on public charger, and not at home, quite likely you might be taking someones space that can charge at 3x-6x speed and has only EV mode, or heck

30 miles is easy to spend in summer for vehicle like Prime, just turn up AC or drive at higher speeds.

And this is the best PHEV on the market.

X5 45e takes 7hrs to charge for 40 miles.

This is fine at home, but at public charger is just a waste, especially on highways.

Now these kinds of problems are easily visible once you become EV owner... only luck there is if you own a Tesla and you have your own network that charges only fast charging vehicles and is available on most highways.

Those 4 hours for the RAV4 with standard charger are for much more than the 30 miles mentioned above.
Also, given how efficient it is, with the optional onboard charger is quite close to a lot of BEV's in km/h AC charging.

The X5 45e, what a rubbish car! 21,6kWh usable to get 30 miles and only 3.8kW onboard charger! Wasn't aware of it.

I agree with you about Tesla, it's the only BEV capable of replacing a ICE car if you don't live in the Nordic countries.

 

[spwolf]

Those 4 hours for the RAV4 with standard charger are for much more than the 30 miles mentioned above.
Also, given how efficient it is, with the optional onboard charger is quite close to a lot of BEV's in km/h AC charging.

The X5 45e, what a rubbish car! 21,6kWh usable to get 30 miles and only 3.8kW onboard charger! Wasn't aware of it.

I agree with you about Tesla, it's the only BEV capable of replacing a ICE car if you don't live in the Nordic countries.

is 40 miles really better? It also very much depends on speed you are driving and outside conditions - hot summer or cold winter will bring it down by a lot.

Plugins do make sense if you charge only at home and all the time, i just dont see many people doing that.

 

[Will1991]

It's 33% more, and both consideration are true for BEV's...

Winter and driving conditions have a huge impact, and BEV's only make sense if you can charge at home. A BEV without home charging it's madness...