Toyota/Lexus Midsize FR Sedan Discussion (Crown, GS) - Replaced with a CUV?

What do you think it is?

  • Lexus GS

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • Toyota Crown

    Votes: 24 80.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Total voters
    30

Gecko

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Agree with you! Just thinking conservatively as Toyota does.
 

ssun30

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Toyota will discontinue the S220 Crown sedan in 2022 after just four model years due to weak demand and shift to SUVs and MPVs in JDM. Crown is being cannabalized by the Alphard. The next-gen Crown will be redesigned as a SUV and will be produced and sold in U.S. and China as well. The Crown SUV will share platform with the Highlander (GA-K) so the Crown as we know it (RWD luxury sedan) is officially dead.

Keep in mind it's not uncommon for the Crown to have really short lifecycle. For most of its history the Crown is redesigned every four years.

I think any hope of future Lexus RWD sedans or SUV is gone at this point. GS is dead, IS still on old platform, RC's days are numbered, and LS will very likely be E-TNGA only.
 
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Gecko

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With the Venza already being a premium, two row Toyota CUV product on GA-K, where would they place a Crown CUV in the US portfolio - or do they just not care about Lexus anymore? Venza, NX, “Crown SUV,” and RX could be a bit over crowded.

One question for you, @ssun30: what is the chance that the Crown CUV is electric only? I can’t share more than that.
 

ssun30

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With the Venza already being a premium, two row Toyota CUV product on GA-K, where would they place a Crown CUV in the US portfolio - or do they just not care about Lexus anymore? Venza, NX, “Crown SUV,” and RX could be a bit over crowded.

One question for you, @ssun30: what is the chance that the Crown CUV is electric only? I can’t share more than that.
Isn't Toyota going to use Prius as a sub-brand name for its E-TNGA lineup like Hyundai does with Ioniq?

You gave me some hints. Recently GAC revealed that another mid-to-large SUV besides the Highlander will go into production in 2022 in China. I am very confident this will be an electric-only model. I don't know about their US production plans.

Another thing is the SUV market today is so large that manufacturers can justify a new model for every 10cm in length. It sounds like a lot of cannabalization but it really isn't the case. Toyota currently has
1 4.0m class (Raize)
1 4.2m class (Yaris Cross)
1 4.4m class (C-HR)
1 4.5m class (Corolla Cross)
1 4.6m class (RAV4)
2 4.7m class (Harrier/Fortuner)
1 4.8m class (LCP/4Runner)
1 4.9m class (Highlander)
1 5.0m class (LC200)
1 5.2m class (Sequoia)

You may notice in the 4.8m class (midsize 2-row), which is arguably the second most competitive SUV segment globally (after the 4.6m class), Toyota only has a BOF truck-based SUV. But that's not the right product for everyone. It's obviously the biggest weakness in Toyota's SUV lineup currently.
 
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Levi

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The only important name for TMC is Toyota. They would even dare to kill the Landcruiser name if it fits them.
 

maiaramdan

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It will be insane to kill the long lasting name plates
I went to Japan, and I know how much this name is solid

Crown actually is a very solid JDM name
 

shizhi

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I saw a Chinese dealer saying it was fake news. He participated in the "Toyota 2020 virtual world convention" in Changshu two weeks ago. Changshu is the location of TMEC. He said he saw the video of the next-generation Crown at the conference ,the model is very amazing.
However, there is another news that FAW Toyota's highlander(770B)may use the Crown logo in China. But this should be an operation only in the Chinese market. The rumored new K-SUV has no evidence or code to confirm in the public information.
At least there will not be such a model in the Chinese market before 2023, and new cars to be launched in the next two years have been confirmed.
875B/925B-Allion,
760B/770B-Highlander,
825B/018D-Sienna,
891B/892B-Corolla Cross,
941B/942B-Harrier,
030D/03*D-New BEV(?),
Regarding BEV, we know that Lexus' next product will be RZ450e. The Toyota brand may use the "BZ series". They have registered "bz1/2/3/4/5, bz1x/2x/3x/4x/5x" in China, the United States, and Europe. Just like VW's "ID series". The BZ4X concept will be the first to be unveiled, after which the real BZ4X will become the first BZ series to be put into production.
 
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Gecko

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If the Crown name is so popular but sedan sales are dropping off, it seems easy to me to develop a crossover executed like the Crown and call it "Crown Cross" or "Crown X" or something similar.
 

maiaramdan

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@Gecko, I am not opposed to this but it will never be FF, Toyota used once a FF for mark-2 blit and it failed miserably,

That's why before @shizhi last post I was so sure that the crown won't die and won't turn to FF but CUV is another thing

Maybe it will be LF-1 brother
And maybe even what I said before in this site and take a lot of bashing as Toyota will soon suck lexus lineup in it and turn Lexus to more exclusive car maker
 

ssun30

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It makes a lot of sense for FAW-Toyota to not give up the Crown name but use it on a SUV instead. But don't they have the "陆泽“ and "陆放" trademarks? One of them is the Harrier. Are they going to use only one of them?
He said he saw the video of the next-generation Crown at the conference ,the model is very amazing.
Did he say anything about whether this Crown is coming to ChDM as the true FAW flagship? That's something I would consider trading in my ES300h for!
 

shizhi

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It makes a lot of sense for FAW-Toyota to not give up the Crown name but use it on a SUV instead. But don't they have the "陆泽“ and "陆放" trademarks? One of them is the Harrier. Are they going to use only one of them?

Did he say anything about whether this Crown is coming to ChDM as the true FAW flagship? That's something I would consider trading in my ES300h for!
他称这辆车(一汽丰田汉兰达)为皇冠陆放,至于harrier的中文名目前没有确认。本代(15代)皇冠是明确不会引入中国的,下一代皇冠是否引入也没有给出明确的信息,不管是导入还是不导入。不过我个人感觉,除非广汽丰田同样获得了皇冠,否则在平衡两位合作伙伴的考虑上,不会单方面给一汽丰田生产/进口皇冠销售。另外一汽丰田给出了未来的销售期望,2022年实现年销量100万,2025年实现年销量140万,所以2022年后还会有更多的车型导入(2021-2022,一汽丰田会导入7款新车,包括上面提到的6款乘用车以及978B的考斯特fcv)。
同样广汽丰田2022年销量目标也是100万,因此,当年丰田中国的销量可能逼近甚至超越同期美国市场。
He called the car (FT's highlander) “Crown Razon(?)”, and the Chinese name of Harrier is uncertain. The fifteenth-generation Crown will not enter China. It is not clear whether the next generation will be introduced.
FAW Toyota will introduce 7 all new models in 2021 and 2022, and expects to achieve annual sales of 1 million in 2022. & 1.4 million in 2025.So there will be more new models into the product list in the future.
Similarly, GAC Toyota's sales target for 2022 is also 1 million. Therefore, Toyota's sales in China in 2022 may approach or even exceed that in the US market.
 
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mikeavelli

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Maybe it also is because the Crown has always been pretty sedate and this model has a really controversial front end.
 

maiaramdan

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Crown had a lot of so called controversial designs through all of its history

And that's not the first time we heard that crown will be deleted or shifted to FF platform

The first time we heard about it was in 2003 with the introduction of the 12th generation, then the same exact shifting/deleting rumour appeared again in 2012 with the 14th gen
 
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Gecko

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I kinda like that render. Front end isn’t as extreme.

But damn, the Crown can’t catch a break lately.😂
 

maiaramdan

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Rumours, rumours and more rumours

Mazda i6 will only be shared with small to mid size car

Technically the space of the Mark-X, Brevis, Verossa, Mark-2, Chaser, Caresta & Cressida

Nothing more, nothing less, with new rumours about same small to mid size FR cuv
 

shizhi

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According to the report, the new crown will belong to a new category "sedan plus", a form between sedan and suv. We will probably get more information at the Tokyo Motor Show next year.
“Sedan plus” reminds me of their BEV concept car, a very special sedan type. The Zero concept of the Chinese brand lynkco is similar to this one.
521260CC-4F9F-426D-8169-39977227E9AF.jpeg2FF750C6-536A-4DF6-9F80-F219CE2012B9.jpegD7878325-EFE6-4208-9E30-9BA122C6515D.jpeg
 
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