Toyota GR Hypersport

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Heck no. This is a Toyota effort. Not a Lexus effort like the LFA was. It was a Toyota badged car that won Le Mans in 2018 and 2019 after many years of striving and also being dominant and competitive in the World Endurance Championship. Lexus doesn't even do anything that massive other than IMSA/Blancpain/other series GT racing and Super GT right now. It would be insulting to Toyota to badge this as a Lexus. Want Lexus to actually do sh*t? Participate in a series like F1. Lexus shouldn't be getting their asses handed to them like Honda did to Acura. Hell, Acura is making a statement with the Type S Concept.
 

Ian Schmidt

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If Toyota is ever going to take the idea of Lexus as a higher-end brand seriously than cars like this must be badged as Lexus. Period. One of the few things Honda/Acura does right is that the NSX is always an Acura in territories where the brand exists.
 

flexus

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I was thinking
If Toyota is ever going to take the idea of Lexus as a higher-end brand seriously than cars like this must be badged as Lexus. Period. One of the few things Honda/Acura does right is that the NSX is always an Acura in territories where the brand exists.
Yeah but Honda NSX sounds more badass than Acura NSX. To me it's like if someone said Volvo NSX or Mazda NSX, Acura does not have the brand value of Lexus. Lexus LFA is a legend and it can be done again. LFA1000h would be sick.
 

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If Toyota is ever going to take the idea of Lexus as a higher-end brand seriously than cars like this must be badged as Lexus. Period. One of the few things Honda/Acura does right is that the NSX is always an Acura in territories where the brand exists.
Completely different dynamic you're talking about here. This is more than just a image difference that you're talking about with Acura and Honda. This is a legendary racing team who have always achieved the upper echelons of excellence in their engineering and participation in racing. Their blood, sweat, and tears spent developing, racing and doing everything for their WEC program, and this project has ZERO fingerprints on it that belonged to Lexus, hence why this must be a Toyota badged hypercar through and through.

The LFA had a lot of Toyota input too, but literally the majority of development was all Lexus, and they extrapolated ALL of the knowledge that came from Toyota's Formula One program. It rightfully deserved to be a Lexus because a lot of the project was their work (and like I mentioned before, Toyota had a part too, especially the fact that the Formula One team was in fact Toyota, but Lexus is Toyota's luxury arm so all is well here) that was put in to this. Also considering every single bit of work that these amazing engineers, designers, leaders and the entire team put in as a whole in the LFA project for an entire decade or so, and looking at the story of how the LFA project came to be, just made that car just that much more special and legendary in its entirety. This was something that if it wasn't a Lexus, it would feel wrong. It just had to be a Lexus.

This monster is a different story though. It's a Toyota project through and through. I hope Lexus actually fulfills their promise and actually build an amazing car like the LFA every several years. I am anticipating for another one. :)
 
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I think it's a Toyota because the car is associated with Toyota's Le Mans 24 hours wins. Lexus hasn't won the 24hr. It could easily be rebadged but there's no gain for them in that. People associate Toyota with the wins, so the badge will be a Toyota. In the end it doesn't matter what badge it wears because it's all one company. But in terms of association the Toyota name is obviously a no-brainer considering they won.
 

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In the end it doesn't matter what badge it wears because it's all one company.
Ahh, but it does matter. Many pixels have been sacrificed here on LE in the last 2 years about how the company's emphasis seems to be firmly on Toyota at the expense of Lexus, and this looks a lot like another such instance. The non-race-following public will certainly see it that way.
 

flexus

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It does matter, but not for the reason you mentioned. Lexus needs to focus on not bullsh*tting their customers and get their act together. Everything is just getting bland and it shouldn't be like this. Racing is what got us this beast of a car, and it wasn't Lexus who did the work here. And you're right about the public seeing it that way, but we also know that they know Lexus hasn't been doing anything monumental compared to other OEM's these days. Rebadging this car would just ruin everything when you look at it in terms of principle. They haven't worked for anything. All they did recently was do the amazing LC and LS and we haven't heard much from these guys in more than 3 years when it comes to aspirational products. It's starting to get irritating when Lexus still is producing the dinosaur LX and GX and not redesigning them. Sales won't last forever. They'll be reduced to nothing and have *throws up* garbage brands like Genesis and irrelevant brands like Acura, Cadillac, and (to a way lesser extent) Lincoln catching up to these guys. BMW and Mercedes-Benz have found a strong footing again, so unless Lexus shocks the world like they did in 1989, they're going to stay in 3rd, or hell maybe 4th or 5th in sales figures.
I cannot agree. Lexus is doing excellent. One of the reason is that rather focusing in the US it is a global brand now. Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Genesis will never go past Lexus because no one knows about them outside US. They are not even sold in Europe, Cadillac and Honda Legend are available in Japan but nobody buys them and in China Cadillac is only that really sells. Lexus has gained foothold in Europe (no other non European luxury company has done that), it is considered rival for Toyota and MB in Japan, toe to toe with German 3 in Korea, Russia, CIS countries and Middle-East, establishing brand recognition in Asean with three digit growth and in China EVs and FCEVs (technology that Germans don't have) can really push Lexus sales even higher.
 

ssun30

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Lexus played no part in the development of the TS050 and this is literally a TS050 with a road car body shell.

The LFA is F1 *inspired* and is a Lexus-run program. The only true F1 technologies used on that vehicle are the full carbon body and the sequential transmission.

The rendering didn't show the use of semi-slick tyres. I understand neither Toyota nor Lexus has ever built a performance car with semi slicks to maintain daily drivability. But I don't think any regular road tyre can handle the immense torque of this beast, and it's not like the owners will go grocery shopping in it. Plus the aero will absolutely rip those treads and make the car harder to drive on tracks.

I'm very interested in whether they will create an unrestricted TS050 after 2019. The TS050 is superior to the 919 in both powertrain and chassis and an unrestricted version will be even crazier than the 919 Evo.
 
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Lexus played no part in the development of the TS050 and this is literally a TS050 with a road car body shell.

The LFA is F1 *inspired* and is a Lexus-run program. The only true F1 technologies used on that vehicle are the full carbon body and the sequential transmission.

The rendering didn't show the use of semi-slick tyres. I understand neither Toyota nor Lexus has ever built a performance car with semi slicks to maintain daily drivability. But I don't think any regular road tyre can handle the immense torque of this beast, and it's not like the owners will go grocery shopping in it. Plus the aero will absolutely rip those treads and make the car harder to drive on tracks.

I'm very interested in whether they will create an unrestricted TS050 after 2019. The TS050 is superior to the 919 in both powertrain and chassis and an unrestricted version will be even crazier than the 919 Evo.
Well, there's a story on motorsport.com where they talk to the TS050 program leader, Rob Leupen, and he says that they are interested in doing what Porsche did with the 919 EVO and going after lap records. He said he feels the TS050 unleashed would be faster than the 919 EVO and the Nurburgring lap record might be on the cards if they can get a budget for it- https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/toyota-porsche-nurburgring-record/4509806/
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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Lexus played no part in the development of the TS050 and this is literally a TS050 with a road car body shell.

The LFA is F1 *inspired* and is a Lexus-run program. The only true F1 technologies used on that vehicle are the full carbon body and the sequential transmission.

The rendering didn't show the use of semi-slick tyres. I understand neither Toyota nor Lexus has ever built a performance car with semi slicks to maintain daily drivability. But I don't think any regular road tyre can handle the immense torque of this beast, and it's not like the owners will go grocery shopping in it. Plus the aero will absolutely rip those treads and make the car harder to drive on tracks.

I'm very interested in whether they will create an unrestricted TS050 after 2019. The TS050 is superior to the 919 in both powertrain and chassis and an unrestricted version will be even crazier than the 919 Evo.
You have literally said everything I have been saying forever ago and for a long time. Nailed it.

The TS050 was an order of magnitude better than the 919 and was very close to the EVO in terms of raw performance. An unrestricted TS050 would be the fastest car of all time this side of a jet car or an unrestricted F1 car period (those are the only two things that would probably go faster than an unrestricted TS050). A normal TS050 in race trim plays with Formula One cars of recent days. That's how insane it is. And ALL OF THAT amazing development, had ZERO involvement from Lexus.

I do have to disagree with one thing though. The 1LR-GUE V10 was heavily derived from Toyota's Formula One program. That's a glaring fact that you omitted, and there were a host of other Formula One technologies that were included as well. But I have to say we both nailed on the fact that this is totally and completely a Toyota product and it must stay that way, and everything else we both discussed about haha.
 
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ssun30

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You have literally said everything I have been saying forever ago and for a long time. Nailed it.

The TS050 was an order of magnitude better than the 919 and was very close to the EVO in terms of raw performance. An unrestricted TS050 would be the fastest car of all time this side of a jet car or an unrestricted F1 car period (those are the only two things that would probably go faster than an unrestricted TS050). A normal TS050 in race trim plays with Formula One cars of recent days. That's how insane it is. And ALL OF THAT amazing development, had ZERO involvement from Lexus.

I do have to disagree with one thing though. The 1LR-GUE V10 was heavily derived from Toyota's Formula One program. That's a glaring fact that you omitted, and there were a host of other Formula One technologies that were included as well. But I have to say we both nailed on the fact that this is totally and completely a Toyota product and it must stay that way, and everything else we both discussed about haha.
I didn't know how much F1 tech was included in the 1LR. I did not consider it a F1-derived engine because of the layout (72 degree Vee instead of 90/95 degree Vee in F1).

By 2017 it's clear the 919 is getting dominated by the TS050. Porsche was developing a 2.7L V6 before they pulled out to close the gap (although part of the reason is preparing for F1, which they gave up upon too). They are especially down on the hybrid system which forces them to do exhaust energy recovery. It sounds fancy on paper but the implementation isn't there, while Toyota worked on perfecting KERS and that just works. The chassis of the TS050 is also slightly better. Really crazy how effective the WEC team was despite working with much less budget. It would be such a waste If they didn't unleash this beast and set some records. And the road version deserves a set of good tyres to give the Europeans some lessons.
 

Will1991

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It will certainly be a lot fun to watch all of those Youtuber's comparing a McLaren/Ferrari/Aston Martin/Porsche to a Toyota. So please Toyota, make sure it's faster than everyone else :p :p

Even more being an Hybrid... A Toyota Hybrid as they usually are the pinnacle of anti-motoring according to some "journalists"...
 

Ian Schmidt

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The TS050 was an order of magnitude better than the 919 and was very close to the EVO in terms of raw performance. An unrestricted TS050 would be the fastest car of all time this side of a jet car or an unrestricted F1 car period (those are the only two things that would probably go faster than an unrestricted TS050). A normal TS050 in race trim plays with Formula One cars of recent days. That's how insane it is. And ALL OF THAT amazing development, had ZERO involvement from Lexus.
I still think it's stupid for branding reasons to call the car a Toyota, but I'm clearly arguing against deeply felt sentiment so I'll bow out.
 
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