Toyota BZ4X

spwolf

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I guess you will pay more, get less, and be happy!

But in seriousness could it be, because the majority of sales based on internal metrics predicted the FWD will sell more due to lower entry cost? Give them the 150, they wont complain.

Who knows. EU pr only mentions 150kw so far.

I am also very sure Lexus will get panasonic cells. Or at least i hope they will.
 

ssun30

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That MPGe rating is hardly impressive. Better than similar competitors but still, not ideal.
 

spwolf

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ah, so it seems in Europe, we will get Panasonic on both models. Which is why European PRs always mention 150kw charging everywhere.

Price of €48.5k in Germany for really well equipped "base" model is pretty good. Especially since heat pump and large battery are included in every car.
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Toyota is already offering low lease rates on its first mass-market EV. According to incentive bulletins sent to dealers, the 2023 Toyota bZ4X is eligible for interest rates as low as 1.9% APR. However, there are some unanswered questions that may have a significant impact on whether the bZ4X is good or bad to lease.

Starting this month, all versions of the 2023 Toyota bZ4X offer a money factor of 0.00081, which is equivalent to a lease rate of 1.9% APR. The pricing is based on top-tier credit, which Toyota Financial Services calls Tier 1+. Toyota bZ4X lessees can get the same rate whether they choose a 24 or 36-month lease term.

However, this alone doesn't give us a full picture of bZ4X lease incentives. First, we don't have information yet on whether or not Toyota is passing along the full value of a $7,500 federal tax credit in the form of lease cash. A surprising number of EVs are not doing so, such as the new Hyundai IONIQ 5 and Ford Mach-E.

Earlier this year, it was reported that Toyota may be running out of tax credits. If that proves to be the case, the bZ4X could have a big disadvantage compared to vehicles like the Kia EV6 and Volkswagen ID.4, which remain eligible. As a result, bZ4X buyers could miss out on an important EV incentive by mere months.

A Toyota spokesperson did not immediately respond to a request for clarification on that point. Second, we haven't seen bZ4X residual value data yet, and it's unclear if the 100%-electric crossover will have a high residual value or a low one. EVs have traditionally had lower residuals than their gas-powered counterparts.

For now, a lease rate equivalent to 1.9% APR could be a good starting point, but it doesn't tell us the whole story. After all, Toyota hasn't even announced MSRP pricing. Having said that, leasing the bZ4X may be a better deal than buying given the fact that Toyota has no rebate deals yet or promotional financing rates.
 

ssun30

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From more press photos it's confirmed there's plenty of space between the battery pack and rear axle. It's not a fully filled skateboard. They could be waiting for supplies to ease and release a LR model based on customer demand. EVs with this kind of wheelbase can have 77-83kWh capacity when fully filled. Adding an extra slice in that space gives 80.3kWh capacity and a modest 10% increase in range. Another possibility is the extra space is to account for the slightly less energy dense BYD LFP cells in the future.

I also wonder if there is a legitimate quality difference between Panasonic and CATL batteries or if it's just distrust of CATL. The charging speed difference is not 50% but 100% so the charging curve on the CATL pack must be very restricted and 100kW is only available across a narrow SOC range. Toyota does have an uneasy relationship with CATL after the Aion S debacle and it takes time to build back trust.
 

NXracer

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From more press photos it's confirmed there's plenty of space between the battery pack and rear axle. It's not a fully filled skateboard. They could be waiting for supplies to ease and release a LR model based on customer demand. EVs with this kind of wheelbase can have 77-83kWh capacity when fully filled. Adding an extra slice in that space gives 80.3kWh capacity and a modest 10% increase in range. Another possibility is the extra space is to account for the slightly less energy dense BYD LFP cells in the future.

I also wonder if there is a legitimate quality difference between Panasonic and CATL batteries or if it's just distrust of CATL. The charging speed difference is not 50% but 100% so the charging curve on the CATL pack must be very restricted and 100kW is only available across a narrow SOC range. Toyota does have an uneasy relationship with CATL after the Aion S debacle and it takes time to build back trust.
BZ4x trying not to be the next Note 7.
 

ssun30

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From some of the review videos, it seems Toyota didn't implement the artificial throttle delay they had in C-HR EV. This gives very good acceleration numbers: 6.5s 0-60 with only 106hp/ton is extremely fast, for reference NX350 is slower with 150hp/ton. But in real world if you have passengers in the back seat they will complain how jerky your car is.
 

spwolf

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From some of the review videos, it seems Toyota didn't implement the artificial throttle delay they had in C-HR EV. This gives very good acceleration numbers: 6.5s 0-60 with only 106hp/ton is extremely fast, for reference NX350 is slower with 150hp/ton. But in real world if you have passengers in the back seat they will complain how jerky your car is.


My M3P is not jerky unless I want it to be jerky, so i dont see why BZ4X would be. IE we can dose the pedal just fine.

Fact that FWD is testing 6.5s to 60 mph and AWD around 6s is really good.

Additionally reviewers mentioned it does not taper off at higher speeds ("70 mph") unlike ID4 AWD for instance, which is also interesting. I guess real life performance will be fine.

Especially if you are in countries where you get Panasonic batteries, such as Europe or Australia.
 

Sulu

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lol

I found the following review difficult to read, in large part because of all the different mistakes in the car's name:

bZ4X (correct)
bz4X
BZ4X
bz4x
BZx4
bX4Z (with a superscript b)
b4Xz
ZXB4

The number of mistakes is not surprising, given that it is Autoblog, but I expect better from a piece of professional writing.

 
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I found the following review difficult to read, in large part because of all the different mistakes in the car's name:

bZ4X (correct)
bz4X
BZ4X
bz4x
BZx4
bX4Z (with a superscript b)
b4Xz
ZXB4

The number of mistakes is not surprising, given that it is Autoblog, but I expect better from a piece of professional writing.


They're being tongue-in-cheek.
 

ssun30

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That's a ridiculous take. How are 4 characters "too long" as a car name? It couldn't be simpler and more effective. And XLE FWD is the trim and not part of the name. If anything they should complain about Recreational Activity Vehicle with 4-wheel-drive with Front-wheel-drive?
 

qtb007

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Didn't read the article because Jalopnik is a joke.
That's a ridiculous take. How are 4 characters "too long" as a car name? It couldn't be simpler and more effective. And XLE FWD is the trim and not part of the name. If anything they should complain about Recreational Activity Vehicle with 4-wheel-drive with Front-wheel-drive?
Because Jalopnik is a complete hack job of an automobile journalism adjacent website? Their whole thing is the dumbest possible take on anything.
 

NXracer

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So I have to ask for pricing TMC EV models.

This vehicle sits as a RAV4 replacement but on the wheelbase of a highlander costs $42k
Is it safe to assume the RZ would be coming in around upper $50ks low $60ks?
 

spwolf

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So I have to ask for pricing TMC EV models.

This vehicle sits as a RAV4 replacement but on the wheelbase of a highlander costs $42k
Is it safe to assume the RZ would be coming in around upper $50ks low $60ks?

sure. If BZ4X comes at 42k-55k, then RZ can only be at least 10k more expensive.
 
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Didn't read the article because Jalopnik is a joke.

Because Jalopnik is a complete hack job of an automobile journalism adjacent website? Their whole thing is the dumbest possible take on anything.
Their writer did go out to the press event...because I almost thought they just wrote jokes and didn't bother to drive it, but Toyota did invite them to San Diego.

TBH, I don't think anyone shopping one will care what they say. While the name is a mouthful, the car is definitely better than its name. IMO though, the tax credit issue might drive would be buyers to Subaru instead.
 
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