'Tier 2' luxury brands struggle to compete with elite Germans, Lexus

CIF

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A great article. I always appreciate the in-depth Autonews articles. This is definitely a common-sense article and mentions a lot key points. Audi coming on strong in North America makes sense, because they are strong overseas and have been for a long time. North America is finally catching up to match Audi's reputation and market place in the rest of the world. I definitely agree that there's almost two separate markets here like the article mentions. The buyers of Tier 2 brands very rarely cross-shop Tier 1 brands, and vice-versa. One of the key things about Tier 1 brands is that people aspire to own them. A noticeable percentage of Tier 2 buyers in fact end up buying a Tier 2 vehicle because they want a "luxury" car yet cannot afford a Tier 1 vehicle.

This one quote is a great example of some Tier 2/Tier 3 brands, and in the case of Acura, it really says it all:

"Acura should stay with what it's good at, and it's good at making reliable luxury cars that will hold their value, cars that do very well in the certified pre-owned market.

First off, it can certainly be argued whether Acura even makes "luxury" cars or not. Many would classify Acura as a "near-luxury" brand. Secondly this only confirms the mentality within Honda that they want Acura to be nothing more than "Honda plus". Mentioning that Acura is primarily good at making cars for the certified pre-owned market really says it all I think, about the type of brand Acura is, and also wants, or does not want, to be.

The other Tier 2 brands, I foresee will continue to struggle, because the competition from the Germans and Lexus is only intensifying, it's not decreasing. The only way I see one of the Tier 2 brands improving significantly is if they do something revolutionary, which will be hard.
 
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mmcartalk

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Lincoln came out with a nice new product last summer (the compact crossover MKC SUV), which, IMO, will do quite a bit to help rejuvenate the brand. The stunning new Continental concept also seems a step forward, and, while still FWD and based on an extended-Fusion/MKZ platform (RWD would probably be preferable), is a significantly better attempt at a flagship than the unimpressive MKS. So, while Lincoln clearly has a ways togo, they seem to (finally) be off to a good start.
 
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krew

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The stunning new Continental concept also seems a step forward, and, while still FWD and based on an extended-Fusion/MKZ platform (RWD would probably be preferable), is a significantly better attempt at a flagship than the unimpressive MKS. So, while Lincoln clearly has a ways togo, they seem to (finally) be off to a good start.

I consider Ford to be quite innovative in its product planning and vehicle lineup, and honestly believe it was a genius move to jettison every single brand except for Lincoln. That said, the Continental is the first sign that Ford is applying some of that creativity to the Lincoln brand. Strange to say that, considering it's resurrecting an old nameplate, but there's something to be said of honoring history.
 
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mmcartalk

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I consider Ford to be quite innovative in its product planning and vehicle lineup, and honestly believe it was a genius move to jettison every single brand except for Lincoln.

Ford, though, didn't jettison all of their other upmarket/premium brands for the same reason. Jaguar and Land Rover were sold off to India's Tata Motors essentially to downsize the coporation and reduce expenses during a time (2008) of reorganization and restructuring, and to help avoid the bankruptcy that rivals GM and Chrysler were facing. Volvo was sold off in 2010 to China's Geely, mostly because it was unprofitable (Volvo still is not particularly profitable even today). Mercury was axed primarily because of redundancy....most Mercury products were essentially rebadged American-market Fords, with little real difference other than trim (as is also the case with Chevy/GMC trucks/SUVs). So, of course, by default, that left Lincoln as the only upmarket division left.....and Ford had to make use of it. But Lincoln ended up just hanging by a thread.....in many places, they don't even have their own dealerships, but essentially sell out of Ford shops. Fortunately, they are slowly getting back on their feet....but it's going to take some time. The next major introduction, later this year, will be the 2Gen MKX mid-size crossover SUV, replacing what was (IMO) a rather unimpressive 1Gen version.....the new MKX will probably be put into production before any future Continental.
 
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Och

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Germans are just moving with the speed of light when it comes to new tech. Even Lexus isn't quite keeping up with their pace - Acura, Lincoln, Caddy are just hopeless.
 

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Germans are just moving with the speed of light when it comes to new tech.

Look what that "new tech" has done to BMW, though. Adopting electric power steering and more computerization of basic vehicle driving functions has drastically changed the once-unique, tactile-feel and superb handling that made these vehicles the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Not long ago, I could tell and recognize the steering feel of many BMW 3-series (and some 5-series) models blindfolded (not that I ever actually drove blindfolded, of course....I didn't). But my point is that it was a unique steering feel that, IMO, was unequalled in tactile-feel by any other power-assisted system, except maybe for some Porsches. BMW (and, to a lesser extent, Mercedes) chassis engineers were also masters of the age-old automotive dilemma of balancing ride-comfort and handling-precision, with the BMW 3-series, in particular, able to combine tactile, precise handling with supple ride comfort over bumps, even with the optional Sport package and 35-series low-profile tires. I was simply stunned at the road manners of the last-generation 335i I sampled. I felt that, from a sport-sedan perspective for regular street driving, it was arguably the best RWD sedan I had ever driven up to that point...even more so than the (then-equivalent) M3, which I thought was too stiff and hard-core in comparison, more at home on a track. Many auto magazines also saw it the same way....for many years, BMW 3 and 5-series models either routinely won comparison tests or ranked near the top.

But it's no secret that more and more electronics in the new BMWs have taken away much of that former superb driving feel and experience, to the point where, now, BMWs don't really stand out much from their competitors any more. Not only that, but other competing models at Audi (A4,5,6,7), Mercedes (C, E-class), and Cadillac (CTS, ATS) have improved and are catching up to the spots BMW once held in the comparison tests.....though, admittedly, Cadillac sales recently have been down.

Increasing use of electronics have not just affected German cars, either....another good example is the Infiniti Q50 sedan. The Q50 features a Direct-Adaptive Steering system, for the first time on a production car (fortunately, optional instead of standard), that does away with part of the steering-column linkage altogether and transmits the steering-input by wire (the conventional steering column only serving as an emergency back-up in case of electronics failure). Advanced, yes, but most reviewers (and even Consumer Reports) complain that it is like driving an appliance.
 
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mmcartalk

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"Something has got to be wrong when a brand as iconic as Cadillac, and part of the fabric of American culture, has one crossover and one SUV. The Germans have so many we can't even keep track."
Johan de Nysschen
Cadillac president

Well, while not a true crossover, Cadillac had a superbly-done CTS Sportwagon with an AWD option (LexFather and I, at the time, both agreed that it was one of the sharpest-looking cars on the road)....and they cancelled it last year for what they said was a lack of sales. That left just the SRX......which, unlike the Escalade, was a true crossover, but a mid-sized one. Bingo......then a number of new, small crossovers hit the market from several different manufacturers (including the Lincoln MKS), and Cadillac got caught flatfooted without anything in the compact crossover range. Mr. de Nysschen, however, seems aware of the need, and Cadillac is currently working on one, but it won't be ready for another year or two at the earliest.....probably 2017.
 
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Och

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Look what that "new tech" has done to BMW, though. Adopting electric power steering and more computerization of basic vehicle driving functions has drastically changed the once-unique, tactile-feel and superb handling that made these vehicles the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Not long ago, I could tell and recognize the steering feel of many BMW 3-series (and some 5-series) models blindfolded (not that I ever actually drove blindfolded, of course....I didn't). But my point is that it was a unique steering feel that, IMO, was unequalled in tactile-feel by any other power-assisted system, except maybe for some Porsches. BMW (and, to a lesser extent, Mercedes) chassis engineers were also masters of the age-old automotive dilemma of balancing ride-comfort and handling-precision, with the BMW 3-series, in particular, able to combine tactile, precise handling with supple ride comfort over bumps, even with the optional Sport package and 35-series low-profile tires. I was simply stunned at the road manners of the last-generation 335i I sampled. I felt that, from a sport-sedan perspective for regular street driving, it was arguably the best RWD sedan I had ever driven up to that point...even more so than the (then-equivalent) M3, which I thought was too stiff and hard-core in comparison, more at home on a track. Many auto magazines also saw it the same way....for many years, BMW 3 and 5-series models either routinely won comparison tests or ranked near the top.

But it's no secret that more and more electronics in the new BMWs have taken away much of that former superb driving feel and experience, to the point where, now, BMWs don't really stand out much from their competitors any more. Not only that, but other competing models at Audi (A4,5,6,7), Mercedes (C, E-class), and Cadillac (CTS, ATS) have improved and are catching up to the spots BMW once held in the comparison tests.....though, admittedly, Cadillac sales recently have been down.

Mike, I disagree with you completely. It's one thing when you sample a car for a short test drive, but quite another when you own one and drive it on daily basis.

You said that you've sampled and were impressed with 335's steering - well I had one for 2 years and 11 month until Sandy took it. Sure it had very sporty steering, but at higher rates of speed it became too responsive to the point of being almost scary. Anything past 80mph, and slightest movement of steering wheel would send you right into adjacent lane. You couldn't just leisurely cruise down the highway in that car.

Electronic steering allows on the fly adjustment of steering rate depending on speed, so it easily takes care of that problem. Since you've also mentioned a 5 series, I suggest you go and sample the new 5 series with M sport package. That car has I think 5 different driving settings from comfort+ to sport+, each having distinctly different steering and suspension settings. A friend of mine bought such car, and after I sampled it, boy do I regret not getting the M sport package on my X5.

And obviously there are things other than steering, and BMW just excels in all of them. Interior features, lighting, drivetrains, design - they are just absolutely incredible and improving with the speed of light. For example when i-drive first came out it was a horrible interface (I used in a 745 that I owned for a short while) and i-drive in new BMW is simply the best interface on the market that everyone blatantly copies, and rightly so. Those that don't (Lexus, Caddy, Ford, and especially Infiniti) just end up with backwards clusterpluck excuses for an interface. :D

I used to be one of the biggest BMW criticizer on the Internet, and now they are my favorite brand. I'm about to take delivery of M235, which will be my fifth BMW. They are absolutely on fire, they got a car for every taste, and with exception of 7 series their cars are best in class. The 7 series loses out to the S class hands down, but something tells me next gen 7 series is going to put up a huge fight.
 

mmcartalk

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It's one thing when you sample a car for a short test drive, but quite another when you own one and drive it on daily basis.

You said that you've sampled and were impressed with 335's steering - well I had one for 2 years and 11 month until Sandy took it. Sure it had very sporty steering, but at higher rates of speed it became too responsive to the point of being almost scary. Anything past 80mph, and slightest movement of steering wheel would send you right into adjacent lane. You couldn't just leisurely cruise down the highway in that car.

OK, no problem. On my 335 test drive, I actually had it out a decent amount of time...it wasn't just around the block, and I got it up to about 70 or so (didn't want to get a speeding ticket). But if you say you had problems at or above 80 MPH, I'll take your word for it. What I liked about the steering the most was the tactile-feel, which was different from almost any other brand except maybe Porsche.

But a couple of questions. You said it was twitchy. On your car, were the tire PSIs correct when cold (sitting at least three hours out of the sun)...or where they pumped up over the factory recommendation? Driving 80 MPH or more creates a fair amount of heat in the tires....even in wintertime. Heat means more PSI...roughly 1 PSi for each 10 degrees F. More PSI, (up to a point) usually means quicker steering response....and sometimes twitchiness. That's why tires have ratings stamped on the side of them for maximum speeds and pressures. Also, was your car modded, or did it have a factory-suspension?...that can also make a difference.

The 335, BTW, also had a high fuel-pump failure rate, but that's another whole subject altogether.

Congratulations on your new car, BTW. Wish you the best of luck with it. :)
 
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Och

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OK, no problem. On my 335 test drive, I actually had it out a decent amount of time...it wasn't just around the block, and I got it up to about 70 or so (didn't want to get a speeding ticket). But if you say you had problems at or above 80 MPH, I'll take your word for it. What I liked about the steering the most was the tactile-feel, which was different from almost any other brand except maybe Porsche.

But a couple of questions. You said it was twitchy. On your car, were the tire PSIs correct when cold (sitting at least three hours out of the sun)...or where they pumped up over the factory recommendation? Driving 80 MPH or more creates a fair amount of heat in the tires....even in wintertime. Heat means more PSI...roughly 1 PSi for each 10 degrees F. More PSI, (up to a point) usually means quicker steering response....and sometimes twitchiness. That's why tires have ratings stamped on the side of them for maximum speeds at recommended pressures. Also, was your car modded, or did it have a factory-suspension?...that can also make a difference.

The 335, BTW, also had a high fuel-pump failure rate, but that's another whole subject altogether.

Congratulations on your new car, BTW.:)

Tire pressure's were per factory specs. Not saying that I had problems with steering, just it over overresponsive at higher speeds to the point of requiring too much concentration.

If I was ever extremely impressed with a cars steering, that would be MB S class. Nothing else I've driven inspires so much confidence. I remember driving it at 120ish mph with 5 people in the car, and it just felt so stable and right, with perfect steering response.
 

mmcartalk

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BTW, word from Lincoln is that they are taking orders for the new 2016 MKX, production has started, and we'll see it in dealerships soon. I plan to do a review when possible.
 

IS-SV

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Yawn, what's a MKX? (Guessing many here don't know, isn't it the one I see around airports)

Regarding the topic here, will it move the needle for Lincoln in terms of closing gap with top tier premium brands...
 

mmcartalk

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Yawn, what's a MKX? (Guessing many here don't know, isn't it the one I see around airports)

Regarding the topic here, will it move the needle for Lincoln in terms of closing gap with top tier premium brands...


That's why I mentioned it.........Lincoln is considered a Tier-2, not Tier-1 luxury carmaker. Basically, right now, they are (more or less) the American version of Acura or Infiniti. (and Acura and Infiniti at least have their own dealerships....Lincolns, which are usually sold with Fords, don't). But the MKC, no doubt, helped. And the new MKX promises to be a much better vehicle than what it replaces...the old MKX was enough to make ME yawn LOL.:D
 
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IS-SV

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That's why I mentioned it.........Lincoln is considered a Tier-2, not Tier-1 luxury carmaker. Basically, right now, they are (more or less) the American version of Acura or Infiniti. (and Acura and Infiniti at least have their own dealerships....Lincolns, which are usually sold with Fords, don't). But the MKC, no doubt, helped. And the new MKX promises to be a much better vehicle than what it replaces...the old MKX was enough to make ME yawn LOL.:D
 

IS-SV

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Got it (no longer snoring, thanks), the Edge-derived mid sized SUV. Would this be the redesigned/improved 2016 MKX that you plan to drive hopefully, otherwise just wait until it's available.
 
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mmcartalk

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Got it (no longer snoring, thanks), the Edge-derived mid sized SUV. Would this be the redesigned/improved 2016 MKX that you plan to drive hopefully, otherwise just wait until it's available.

In a word, yes.