Third Generation Toyota Tundra Master Thread

Joaquin Ruhi

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The new ford has a mild hybrid system
To my knowledge, it's a full hybrid.

New F150 had less changes than "new" Lexus IS. Just another example how Toyota/Lexus forum fans overdo it.
3.5v TT running at a higher compression ratio, revised interior, changes in interior and exterior, active aero grill, Improved towing capacity, electric bed outlet, over the air update, bigger screens, etc..

Its more vast than the IS in terms of update.
Actually structural changes to F150 are smaller than for IS... All engines are carry over too.

And we are talking about very profitable truck that sells 1m per per year vs car that sells 50k.
Tundra is how old now? How many times has the F150 been changed in that same time frame?
You all make a point. I would just like to say that even though the f150 has been redone 5 times (counting both all-new models and refreshed models) since 2007 I think an argument could be made for the Tundra...
Are we really going down this road? The F-150 was all-new in 2015, so 6 model years later, it's getting a 50% updated exterior, a more updated interior, and updated engines and some brand new powertrains.

The IS was new in 2014, so 7 model years later, it's getting 100% new exterior sheetmetal, circular vents and a touch screen, and carryover powertrains.

You tell me who put more money into their "refresh." The F-150 is Ford's most important vehicle, and the IS is nowhere close to the top 10 list for Toyota, so I think the money invested makes sense in both cases.

P.S. the F-150 refresh is also hideous and the IS looks great 🤪
Interesting comments in light of what I've been doing the past couple of days. At the request of Que Auto Compro, I've pretty much taken a deep-dive into both the "new" F-150 and on the truck's history for an article and a historical gallery with brief commentary.

I was given advance access, under embargo, to a Spanish-language version of Ford's press release, so putting the article together wasn't too bad. It was reviewing the F-150's history that I learned quite a bit.

By Ford's official reckoning, the just-unveiled 2021 is the F-150's 14th generation, but several of those are pretty much comparable to what Lexus just did with 3IS. Ford coasted through 17 years (1980-1997) on 2 major facelifts to what was officially the truly new (including chassis) 7th-gen F-150 launched in 1980. Yet historians (and Wikipedia) consider them full-fledged 8th and 9th generations. Each of those are roughly comparable to the major facelift the current Tundra received for the 2014 model year. Other generations (such as the current 13th-to-14th transition) similar blur the lines between truly new generation and major refresh.

Then, conversely, you have the odd case of the 4th-gen F-150 that ran between 1961 and 1966. Towards the end of the run (1965MY) they slipped a new chassis and suspension under the existing sheetmetal. And then, after coming up with a new chassis for the 10th generation that ran between 1997 and 2004, they threw that out and came up with yet another new one for its 11th-gen successor.
 

maiaramdan

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Honestly by the new rumor regarding ditching the LC-F but putting the V8TT 4.0L in a lot of vehicles including Trucks that means we can even see it in Tundra so the easy guess is that the Tacomas may get the V35a as the top of it's line
 

suxeL

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Honestly by the new rumor regarding ditching the LC-F but putting the V8TT 4.0L in a lot of vehicles including Trucks that means we can even see it in Tundra so the easy guess is that the Tacomas may get the V35a as the top of it's line
I wouldnt be surpised if the V8TT would end being a TRD Pro exclusive
 

Levi

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Lets us not pretend TMC goes alone without consideration of competition. That is not how business works. If TMC has been slow, does not mean it was planned, but could simply be other issues or a side effect of other strategic planning (BEV transition/climate change thing). Every business ideally would like to be Apple: status, top products, high sales/market penetration, fat margins, growing stock value.

If new Tundra/Sequoia wipe the competition, at their game, only better for TMC and its fans (and customers of the superior product, even if they come from elswhere).

Tundra/Sequoia with new BOF platform, TTV8, HTTV6, TTV6, TDV6, premium interior, what more can one want?
 

Gecko

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Diesel program is dead. And I’m not sure there will be a V8 plan for the Tundra, even in TRD PRO. TT-V6 hybrid is a flagship powertrain with regard to power, engineering and efficiency so I think that will be their top offering for many reasons, but mostly because they will be quite proud of it. And rightfully so.
 

Levi

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Diesel program cannot be dead. The world does not revolve around Western countries only. There is Africa, Australia, eastern Europe, they all NEED diesels. No diesel for Tundra/Sequoia, ok, has never been (though there is a company in the US that swaps EMEA diesels into NA related BOF vehicles) but Landcruiser without diesel? No way.

Landcruiser also better come with TTV8 to power those B6/B7 armored ones. I doubt the V35A is enough to replace the 1UR in those armored Landcruisers.
I mention the Lancruiser, because it is related to the Tundra/Sequoia.

Also, if the new LX is to continue being based on the Landcruiser, and according to previous rumors about which cars are to get TTV8, those priced above 90K, a category in which the LX fits, I don't see the LX getting the TTV8 but not the Landcruiser, which for me and many others is the original, LX being luxury badged derivative. TMC killed the GS, not the Crown, can't see it happening differently with these two, where the Lexus gets more than the Toyota (in terms of engines).
 
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maiaramdan

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The V8TT, will be appearing in all of the big offering in both Lexus & Toyota brands

From this report we can see that the V8TT will be in

Lexus LS, LC, LX, LF-1 limitless production
Toyota Century, Crown, LC300, Tundra, Sequoia

Sharing it among as many models as they can to share it's R&D budget
 
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Gecko

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From what I know, there was a more comprehensive diesel program that spanned cars, unibody CUVs and BOF products as well. That was killed because Toyota felt like VW’s scandal would ruin the appetite for all diesel products, plus the product decision to double down on hybrids. I’m sure there is continued development for vehicle specific applications in markets like Africa and Australia, but I think the broader diesel strategy that was once planned is now dead.

With regard to the V8, it’s logical to assume that something like a “600” powertrain will go into the LC, LS, LX and LF-1 if it happens. I think that makes sense with Lexus’ message that V8s won’t be in vehicles below 90k... which all of those would be. And Lexus likes aspirational, flagship products.

It seems strange to not share costs with things like Tundra, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser, but I have not heard anything about a V8 in those applications and what I have heard is that the TTV6 hybrid is seen as the flagship motor for those vehicles. V35A-FTS is seen as the direct replacement for the UR V8 (4.6, 5.7 liters) as a workhorse.

Of course, I hope the V8 comes to Toyota products!
 

Sulu

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There must be big sighs of relief in some conference room in Plano after seeing the F-150 hybrid.
That being said, Ford may not have planned to compete against the Tundra hybrid anyway because they know they will be outdone. Going for a weak hybrid puts it at a lower segment while Tundra hybrid maybe in the Raptor segment.
Few people realize just how old the EcoBoost 3.5 is now. It is an early 2010s tech turbo GDI engine (i.e. same era as the N55) and it shows in its relatively low efficiency (but still WAY more efficient than the V8s).
Funny you should say that. For 2 years, starting in 2011, Toyota and Ford worked together to develop a hybrid system for trucks, until Ford pulled out of the joint venture in 2013, saying that they had an idea for an "all-new architecture" "to build world-class hybrids". Toyota blamed Ford for merely wanting to tap into Toyota's expertise in hybrids.

For its truck hybrid, first introduced in the 2020 Ford Explorer Hybrid, Ford developed a conceptually simple P2 hybrid system, consisting of a 35-kilowatt electric motor-generator at the front end of their 10-speed automatic transmission and powered by a 1.5-kilowatt-hour battery. Ford seems to have fit a similar system in the 2021 F-150 pickup truck. Rumours are that Toyota developed the Multi-Stage Hybrid system for truck use, but we won't know until the new Tundra Hybrid is introduced.
 

Sulu

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To my knowledge, it's a full hybrid.
It depends upon whether the electric motor is powerful enough to drive the truck on its own, with no assist from the gasoline engine. A 35 kW (47 hp) electric motor would seem to be rather weak to drive a heavy truck but torque multiplication through the 10-speed transmission may help (I have not seen driving impressions yet).

The P2 hybrid design has been used by many automakers, and used for everything from mild hybrids (e.g. Honda's Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) used on early Insights, early Civic Hybrids and early Accord Hybrids) to full hybrids (e.g. Hyundai Sonata, late-model BMW Hybrids and Porsche Hybrids) to plug-in hybrids (e.g. BMW PHEVs and Porsche PHEVs). It depends upon the power available from the electric motor and the capacity of the battery. A 35 kW electric motor and a 1.5-kilowatt-hour battery would seem to be rather weak for a heavy, full-size truck.

The fuel efficiency of the full hybrid Ford Explorer Hybrid does not match the full hybrid Toyota Highlander Hybrid, for example, so it is a weaker hybrid system.
 

suxeL

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Interesting article I was reading on Jalopnik about GMC and their 3L diesel pickup trucks. The current take rate is about 10%, goals are about 20%. The case for a diesel is quite loud, but for some reason the sales to back it up always end up not being too great.
 

Levi

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Interesting article I was reading on Jalopnik about GMC and their 3L diesel pickup trucks. The current take rate is about 10%, goals are about 20%. The case for a diesel is quite loud, but for some reason the sales to back it up always end up not being too great.
Yes that is the case the US. The whole opposite in AUS.
 

spwolf

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From what I know, there was a more comprehensive diesel program that spanned cars, unibody CUVs and BOF products as well. That was killed because Toyota felt like VW’s scandal would ruin the appetite for all diesel products, plus the product decision to double down on hybrids. I’m sure there is continued development for vehicle specific applications in markets like Africa and Australia, but I think the broader diesel strategy that was once planned is now dead.
Bug diesel program death happened years before VW diesel gate. If i remember correctly those decisions were made almost 10 years ago.

Isuzu was working on those diesels when the project got canned. I would guess Europe was main driver behind it but somewhere along the line they made right decision to cancel it. I can tell you all the dealers where happy about it since diesels, especially BMW ones, had a lot more problems than hybrids.

They are still working on diesels as we know, their 4cl just got big upgrade and there are rumors that be LC will have v6 diesel as well but nothing for smaller vehicles anymore.
 
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Follow the Australian 4x4 scene, and seems like the stigma of low mpg with petrol motors give the diesels an edge down under.
I think that is part of why Toyota is going Hybrid. They mentioned how much the truck market is growing in Australia and that they want bigger trucks however the regulations over there are much different than others. Toyota wants to reach new markets with the new Tundra, a hybrid powertrain that offers increased power and efficiency will definitely help.
 
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